"Romance is not real writing"

Another Editor · Nov 11, 2010

The publisher that I work for runs workshops on a regular basis for local writers. At our last workshop, somebody asked which genres are the easiest to sell. Part of the answer given was that romance fiction has had a regular buying market for decades and doesn't show any sign of abating.

One of our participants interjected, "romance fiction is not real writing!"

Before he could elaborate, the majority of people present came down on him like a ton of bricks, with justification. Apart from the usual justifications, such as saying that "romance sells, let's see you do so well!" and "look at technical writers who make a living writing manuals. That's writing too and you can't say it's easy, either," there were few comments other than accusing this person of "elitism" (I think someone used stronger language than that at one point).

It seems that there is a stigma against romance fiction. Since there are a lot of romance writers here, I would like to know how you deal with this stigma, and if you ever felt the need to "justify" what you do to other writers.

scarletpeaches · Nov 11, 2010

Since I write erotic romance, I get "Need any help with your research?" more than mockery or outright hostility. It's tiresome because every assclown thinks he's the first person to say it.

I have the Patented scarletpeaches Ball-Withering Stare[SUP]TM[/SUP] in my weaponry anyway so I don't much worry. If someone ever talked down to me about what I write, I'd invite them to either write a book themselves, or suck my fat hairy cock.

brainstorm77 · Nov 11, 2010

That guys an idiot.

I've not felt any stigma TBH.

Ken · Nov 11, 2010

... that's the first time I've ever heard such a sentiment expressed. All the writers I know have a great amount of respect for romance writing, and envy too seeing how lucrative a market there is for it. So it seems that guy is singular. Very, very singular. There's always one in every writers group as it seems :-(

MissMacchiato · Nov 11, 2010

I think some of the mockery comes from within the industry too, or from a sense of needing to tell others that romance is vaulable and valued. Maybe mockery isn't the right word. I think I mean, defensiveness.

Frankly I don't really care whether others think it's not 'real' writing. Anyone who would say something like that clearly has no effing clue about what writing involves.

It kind of reminds me of a comment an ex once made - I have 3 degrees, one of which is arts, and he told me that my sister's degree (arts with psychology and gender studies) was worthless, whereas mine had value - but ONLY because I did a science component.

I've also had exes tell me history is pointless (I have a history degree) and in the same vein, that romance was junk.

Not everything in life has to be super serious to have worth. Not everything has to have a moral, or an outcome, or be deeply depressing to be valuable.

Giving people the gift of a break from real life, the gift of a smile when they read about how much a couple love each other and how hard they'd try to be together - that has to be one of the most rewarding jobs anyone could have.

It's a small thing, but it can make a mundane life bearable.

But of course, here I am, preaching to the choir. We all know this.

(and you're all awesome. High five!)

scarletpeaches · Nov 11, 2010

If someone tells me what I write (erotica ebooks) aren't real, I say - and actually have done - "Oh. Then you'll give me back that not-real coffee cup, put down that not-real slice of cake and get off my not-real chair, because my not-real books didn't pay for all the shit you're in my house not using."

Josef VonQuestenberg · Nov 11, 2010

Fun quote par the topic.

"America is now wholly given over to a damned mob of scribbling women,
and I should have no chance of success while the public taste is occupied with their trash."

~Nathaniel Hawthorne.

Deleted member 42 · Nov 11, 2010

I think Jane Austen and the Brontës and Margaret Mitchell and Nicholas Sparks should all be deeply ashamed of their complete failure as writers.

Tsk tsk.

Dee Carney · Nov 11, 2010

All I know is, "real writing" or not, my romances bring me a check every month.

I've never felt the need to justify my writing to anyone (but that goes for anything I do).

brainstorm77 · Nov 11, 2010

Medievalist said:
I think Jane Austen and the Brontës and Margaret Mitchell and Nicholas Sparks should all be deeply ashamed of their complete failure as writers.

Tsk tsk.

Perks · Nov 11, 2010

I also think it comes from many people thinking their personal taste is some sort of relevant yard stick.

It's one of the things I really love about getting older, I realize that there's value in lots and lots of things that don't interest me. Sometimes in things that even annoy me or offend me.

scarletpeaches · Nov 11, 2010

Medievalist said:
I think Jane Austen and the Brontës and Margaret Mitchell and Nicholas Sparks should all be deeply ashamed of their complete failure as writers.

Tsk tsk.

I was with you up until Sparks.

Bubastes · Nov 11, 2010

Sparks insists that he doesn't write romances. In fact, he does everything he can to distance himself from them:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2010-03-11-lastsong11_CV_N.htm

"If you look for me, I'm in the fiction section. Romance has its own section," he says toward the end of a long conversation. Sunshine streams in from Sunset Boulevard. He's smiling. Hard.

"I don't write romance novels." His preferred terminology: "Love stories — it's a very different genre. I would be rejected if I submitted any of my novels as romance novels."

....

Sparks cringes at the word: romance. But since it comes up again, isn't he kind of splitting hairs with this whole "love story" vs. "romance" thing?

"No, it's the difference between Cinderella and Romeo and Juliet," he says. "(Romances) are all essentially the same story: You've got a woman, she's down on her luck, she meets the handsome stranger who falls desperately in love with her, but he's got these quirks, she must change him, and they have their conflicts, and then they end up happily ever after."

Some might say that's the plot to Nights in Rodanthe, apart from the happy ending.

Sparks disagrees. "No, the themes in love stories are different. In mine, you never know if it's going to be a happy ending, sad ending, bittersweet or tragic. You read a romance because you know what to expect. You read a love story because you don't know what to expect."

Is it annoying when someone doesn't see the distinction? "Uh, no," he says. "But it has been a struggle."

When the interview is over, he has a question of his own.

"You going to call it a romance novel?" he asks.

Stacia Kane · Nov 11, 2010

Josef VonQuestenberg said:
Quote:
"America is now wholly given over to a damned mob of scribbling women,
and I should have no chance of success while the public taste is occupied with their trash."
America is now wholly given over to a damned mob of scribbling women,
and I should have no chance of success while the public taste is occupied with their trash."

~Nathaniel Hawthorne.

I think that's a big part of where the stigma comes from; good point. Some men see the success of women as somehow cutting into their own. That attitude hasn't changed, or rather it still exists in some circles, sadly; I've blogged about it before.

(I assume that's the point you're making with the quote?)

MissMacchiato · Nov 11, 2010

I see Nick Spark's point, but I get the feeling he's saying that writing a love story is somehow better than writing romance.

That he, as a writer of sweeping, epic love stories is totally a cut above those foolish, frippery romance writers.

Maybe I'm being defensive but that's kind of what I got out of that, lol.

scarletpeaches · Nov 11, 2010

The genres are different, though. Romance? Always a HEA...or at the very least, a HFN.

In love stories, the relationship is the thing, not the wrapping-it-up-in-a-tidy-bow. For instance, Gone with the Wind is a love story but not a romance. Titanic is a love story but not a romance. (Okay, a movie, but you're still with me, right)?

All romances are love stories but not all love stories are romances.

MissMacchiato · Nov 11, 2010

absolutely. I get the genre difference, I just don't think that one should be thought less of than the other. Both have value in their own way...

Day O' · Nov 11, 2010

"romance fiction is not real writing!"

I have three nearly finished manuscripts, though each need some of work. One is a historical romance, one a YA thriller with some romance, and the last a middle grade adventure. The historical romance is and has always been the hardest, and I've been reading the genre for over twenty years. Writing romance is freaking hard! I'd like these people who say it isn't real writing to give it a try.

jennontheisland · Nov 11, 2010

Josef VonQuestenberg said:
"America is now wholly given over to a damned mob of scribbling women,
and I should have no chance of success while the public taste is occupied with their trash."

Click to expand...

~Nathaniel Hawthorne.

Yes, misogyny is part of it.

leahzero · Nov 11, 2010

Genre fiction gets pooped on. Period. According to the literary establishment, unless it's literary fiction, it's not "real writing."

I do think romance gets the lion's share of poop, though. And I think the reason has to do with many ideas expressed in this thread, along with certain cultures' inability to deal with sex in a mature and open way, resulting in repression, fetishization, taboo, and so on.

Ironically, those same cultures glorify and venerate violence, and fiction with strong violent elements (e.g. crime fiction) is somehow inherently elevated above the stature of romance, despite being structurally and qualitatively similar in many respects.

Also, I poop on Nicholas Sparks. Just another mediocre writer who made a career out of writing midlist genre fiction and branding it "commercial."

sunandshadow · Nov 11, 2010

I see the prejudice against romance as being part because it's 'a girl thing' but also part because it's not 'darker and edgier' and since the nineties cheerful stuff just hasn't been in fashion compared to dark stuff. I have the opposite prejudice so I can't resent people who turn their noses up at romance too much. I regard it as being like political parties, it's just natural for any two social groups to deride each other for their differing philosophies.

job · Nov 11, 2010

Almost always, when someone says one type of writing is important, genuine, lyrical, well-written, innovative, significant . . .
and another is not,
it is the second type of writing that makes money.

MissMacchiato · Nov 11, 2010

I love that this is one topic that has us all crawling out of the woodwork to discuss.
It's always lovely to see how passionate everyone is.

And I do love a good romance book.

shadowwalker · Nov 11, 2010

Caveat: I'm not a writer of romance/love stories, but I used to be addicted to romance books. So this is coming from that angle. (And I've also gotten that 'not real writing' when I say I write fanfic, so I know how it feels.)

As I said, I used to be addicted to romances. For several years (back in the 80s), that's practically all I read. But then, I started noticing that the books - even the brand new ones - all seemed the same to me. Different names, different locales, but otherwise same story. Now, maybe I was just over-dosed on them, but could this 'not real writing' come from that formula thing? I know that no matter how 'strict' the formula is, it still takes a great deal of imagination and work to make the story unique. But if the 'general public' has this perception that romance writers are just taking that formula and "plugging in" their characters... ?? Or maybe (probably) things have changed in the 30 years since I was reading them and that's not really an issue now...

Just a thought, anyway...

Deb Kinnard · Nov 11, 2010

This attitude is tiresome in its tendency to rear its ugly head every few years or so. It's strictly elitism and should be dismissed as such.

Funny thing is -- I hang out with many other writers, quite a few of whom write outside romance. SF authors whose names you'd recognize, a mystery writer or two -- and each of them has reported this same dissing of their genre as the bottom of the fiction barrel. Not romance.

Makes you wonder sometimes what the actual agenda is here. Probably nothing deeper than expressing negative opinions in order to make oneself feel better in some trivial fashion.

:Soapbox:

"Romance is not real writing"

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