Purgatory's Pit of Doom

kellion92 · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks, Steve!

OK, enough about me and my dithering. I'm exploring what it means to be a free agent/agent free, and see how it opens me to possibilities. Like I also have a picture book that I wrote that I could submit to a lot of places myself -- pretty easy to do with no agent, and it won't affect how I query or submit my novels. If it sells, that would be cool, but I am not primarily a picture book writer so I don't have a lot of ego wrapped in it.

Wordwrestler · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks for the support, everyone! And thanks for holding those hounds back. I think they've caught a whiff of that stuff that starts with the letter H and which shall not be named in the pit.

Kellion, I know what you mean. I feel strangely free, and as I'm finishing up my WIP, part of me hopes that I won't get it done, start querying, and find an agent for it too soon, because I won't have time to shop my other work the way I want to first! I know it's stupid, but that's where I am now.

The MG I'm sending to eds right now got me some full requests and positive comments from agents, but ultimately no offer, and I have a rather short list of agents I'd consider working with now.

The thing is, I never would have shown that novel to an agent who, for example, signed me for my shopped YA. I would've been afraid to because of my previous experience. And that makes me wonder about the rest of the stuff in my trunk.

So I can't argue with anyone doing what they feel they need to do to take charge of their career at this point. I do worry about the lurkers who may be less experienced and reading this, but I know you know the risks, Kellion, and I totally get it. I can't speak for other genres, but in kidlit, success stories do still come from the slush sometimes.

Oh, and yay for the picture book! Go for it.

Leigh, all the best with your Kindle book! That's something I may consider down the road, too.

Just realized I said the H-word! HELP! <runs for life>

ink wench · Jan 10, 2011

Just going to repost from purgatory because I'm to bleh to do anything else.

Another full R, this time from an agent who said she'd been thinking about my MS since Christmas, but ultimately didn't feel enough of an emotional impact - the ending was too obvious. Was very sweet, and it ended with her saying that she's certain I'm going to sell something, and if it's not this one, she wants to see the next.

I feel like I'm always not quite there.

Kellion, good luck with the picture book!

soulcascade · Jan 10, 2011

No worries, Mario, I hadn't seen you around for a while so I figured that's what happened.

WOOT Leigh!! Awesome, you must be excited!

Word, don't make me sick the hounds on you!

I felt oddly free once I was de-agented too. Like I could write what I wanted to and not worry about agent person breathing down my neck saying "No no no..."

{{Ink}} IMO those sweet R's sting worse than form R's

SteveCordero · Jan 10, 2011

{{{Ink}}}

kellion92 · Jan 10, 2011

Oh, yes, Leigh -- good luck with the ebook and the fulls too!!!

(((Ink))) What a frustrating response from the agent -- that you'll sell someday. We all know you will, Ink, but we want you to sell NOW! And she's wrong about the emotional impact. If she's been thinking about it for a month, it has impact.

ink wench · Jan 10, 2011

Anyone got a maggotini around here?

Kellion, ha. Yeah, I guess that's true. What's funny(?) is that I never expected that the ending would be anything other than obvious. It's a romance, so by definition the MC and LI will end up together. Meh.

soulcascade · Jan 10, 2011

Ink (and don't kill me I know you know this already) that's just her opinion. Someone else may think that ending's fine.
*passes Ink maggot-bong* <- thought you could use something stronger

kellion92 · Jan 10, 2011

Agree on the ending -- romances end happily. That's the whole point, and that's why they are thrilling and satisfying. That's why people reread Jane Austen constantly but not Thomas Hardy.

Snappy · Jan 10, 2011

ink wench said:
Anyone got a maggotini around here?

Kellion, ha. Yeah, I guess that's true. What's funny(?) is that I never expected that the ending would be anything other than obvious. It's a romance, so by definition the MC and LI will end up together. Meh.

Wait! It's a romance and she said the ending was too obvious??? That makes so little sense. By definition romances end happy or at least happy for now. Grr...

ink wench · Jan 10, 2011

Ooh, maggot bong.

Re: ending, I didn't do her comments justice summing them up like that. She took a couple paragraphs to explain, but my first reaction was "huh." In part, she didn't think there was enough will they/won't they tension.

K. Taylor · Jan 10, 2011

Other Lisa said:
Howdy, Leigh!

Popping to share this link from Smashw0rds....

One thing I take from it is that the general public is not that picky as long as they like the story. Which I pretty much already knew. Another thing is that having a full stable of books really, really helps no matter where they're coming from. Offering the first book free is good promo for him, too. 6-figures for the year is awesome.

kellion92 · Jan 10, 2011

Another good point is that he has 17 novels out. I think there is a good chance that any of us will be successful if we stick it out and write 17 novels while learning each time.

Cricket18 · Jan 10, 2011

Well, Ink, I feel like we got the same pass from the same agent. *hugs*

I got a pass on my full today. And I got the same, "you're a great writer...you're going to sell soon...."

What frustrates the hell out of me was her one comment about why she didn't feel she could rep. the ms.

If one more agent on the web talks about the MC being passive, in any ms, I'll scream. I get having an active protag. They should be. But does it have to be every single solitary scene? Out of 200+ pages of my MG, my MC is incredibly spunky and active.

I don't think she read the whole thing. If she would've, I don't think she would've felt that way.

I'm in a very, very bad mood.....

soulcascade · Jan 10, 2011

{{Cricket}} I wouldn't bother thanking agent for the R unless they gave you helpful pointed advice. The market is brutal, anything less than what the agent/editor sees as perfection gets the big boot out the door....

kellion92 · Jan 10, 2011

(((Cricket))) If you're trying to show that she becomes more active as a character arc, then being passive at the beginning is natural. Still, could you bump up her decision-making a little earlier? Or does it already happen early and you don't think he got there?

ink wench · Jan 10, 2011

(((Cricket)))

Cricket18 · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks, guys.

There's one scene I could change. Yes, Kellion, I was hoping for the old, you know, character arc, but I think I can rearrange a couple of things.

I went back and reread her pass. It was very nice. I guess that's why it hurts. It's the "not for me" that makes it all easier to digest.

On an up note...oh, wait, there is no up note.

kellion92 · Jan 11, 2011

(((Cricket)))) It's morning here. If you need an up note, have a maggoccino.

ink wench · Jan 11, 2011

We have maggotcinos now? Sweet, Pit, how I love thee.

Cricket, I see nothing wrong with a character arc like you're describing, but if you feel changing the scene would help, it can't hurt to try.

kellion92 · Jan 11, 2011

I don't see a problem with the arc either, except the realities of getting an agent's attention. It seems to me that there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through and marks you have to hit to get through agents' slush.

These are not necessarily the same hoops and marks readers or even editors expect or care about. Agents don't have an assurance that the manuscripts they are reading are professional quality, edited and prescreened. They know a book could fall apart at any minute, so an unagented writer has to win over a jaded, skeptical professional reader, not a relaxed and trustful one who is sitting down and willing to be entertained.

soulcascade · Jan 11, 2011

Ink was thinking about your pass yesterday. You know, you hear so much about 'oh I signed with so and so and then we revised for x length of time.' It makes me wonder if passes (like Ink's) where the agent says something about the ending etc...is that just an excuse? I mean such worded passes are there to justify WHY they're passing, right? But manuscripts are 'clay' not 'granite' in that they can be molded and shaped and re-molded again...so an ending that doesn't quite work can be re-written...I guess I'm just wondering why agents want to help some writers revise and re-revise while telling others 'oops! didn't like your ending, pass!)

Yeah I know, don't try to figure this business out, it makes no sense...

ink wench · Jan 11, 2011

Kellion, agreed - good points. I admit, I definitely think about getting through the hoops when I construct a story. Of course I make sure there's clear conflict, but I've also learned to make sure my MC is doing something (active) that makes them likable (although, clearly, what I consider likable is not what editors do) in the first chapter. Hell, I even try to make my first 5 or 10 pages end on a bit of a cliffhanger.

Soul, I think it depends on the revisions the agent wants. In this case, the agent wanted a story that spoke to some "truths" on a deeper level than mine did. I'd been trying to make a point that a good romance brings out the best in those involved, but she wanted something more. So I think her dissatisfaction with the ending was part of how she expressed that. I can't just fix things that way because that's not the sort of book I wrote. Whereas, I'm working on an R&R for a different agent (different book) who basically told me my plot fell apart in the second half. I could see her points, and that *is* fixable, which is why I think I have the R&R.

Snappy · Jan 11, 2011

soulcascade said:
Ink was thinking about your pass yesterday. You know, you hear so much about 'oh I signed with so and so and then we revised for x length of time.' It makes me wonder if passes (like Ink's) where the agent says something about the ending etc...is that just an excuse? I mean such worded passes are there to justify WHY they're passing, right? But manuscripts are 'clay' not 'granite' in that they can be molded and shaped and re-molded again...so an ending that doesn't quite work can be re-written...I guess I'm just wondering why agents want to help some writers revise and re-revise while telling others 'oops! didn't like your ending, pass!)

Yeah I know, don't try to figure this business out, it makes no sense...

I think you were reading my mind with this post. I feel the same way. It does sometimes feel like an excuse, "The ending isn't x/y/z" so I'm going to pass. If the ending it the issue, then let's talk about it. Maybe I'm open to your ideas, changing it, etc. If you just didn't jive with the whole book that's find, but one part is a pass? Not even a revision. I don't get it.

soulcascade · Jan 11, 2011

Thanks Its!

Ink I agree that if that's the reasoning, then it's not the book for that agent.

I suppose your R was the catalyst for my thinking above as I was thinking about 'excuses for R's' in general. I got several R's with my last book (one from an editor) and I couldn't help think 'Really? And we couldn't work on that to smooth out that wrinkle??' I suppose my frustration lies in the fact that I AM willing to put edits in but I"m not being given the chance to.

Like I got this amazing R from an agent and thought 'I can work through those revision suggestions and the book will be stronger'. So I'm just finishing up those suggestions now and, yup, it IS a better book. But what I got was a straight R, not a 'feel free to contact me again if you sort out these issues.' But those issues were so damn easy to fix!! So, I donno, I just don't get the difference between an R that points out fixable issues and R & R where said agent goallows the writer to fix them.

Purgatory's Pit of Doom

A cat may not look at a king

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

Bright lights induce scuttling

Pit Livin' & Purgatory Dreamin'

A cat may not look at a king

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

Bright lights induce scuttling

A cat may not look at a king

A new year, a new avatar

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

Bah Humbug

A cat may not look at a king

Gnawing my hairless tail

Bright lights induce scuttling

A cat may not look at a king

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

Gnawing my hairless tail

A cat may not look at a king

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

A cat may not look at a king

Bright lights induce scuttling

ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine

A new year, a new avatar

Bright lights induce scuttling