Tell Me A Fable...

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Lit Chick5

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There has been a lot of discussion in the publishing world surrounding the coined phrase "urban fantasy" and with that, sub-topic genres involving paranormal romance and magic realism in modern settings. Inundated with the industry's preoccupation with these genres, a question that springs to mind is whether the reader interest is still balanced between the intriguing new trends of urban fantasy as well as traditional sword/sorcery fantasty that builds on the symbolic fairy tale literature archetypes such as in the new film 'Your Highness' which lends satire and the beloved Lord of the Rings type of storytelling.

Would love to hear other writers thoughts on defining fantasy literature.
 

Kitty Pryde

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I don't agree with your dichotomy between urban fantasy on one side, and sword&sorcery, fairy tales, and LOTR on the other side. "Your Highness" is just a stoner movie full of dick jokes using the most tired of old fantasy cliches. I wouldn't assign anything LOTR-esque to it. Swords and Sorcery (as pioneered by Conan and the like) is usually called low fantasy, and LOTR and its heirs are usually called high fantasy.

There's a lot of fantasy that is neither high nor low nor UF. There's historical, contemporary, SF/fantasy hybrid, fantasy of manners, x-punk for many different values of x, there's stuff that defies subgenre categorization, and more.

Books influenced by fairy tales or using fairy tale conventions usually fit into various different genres, including historical and UF and contemporary.

Nor is magical realism a subgenre of urban fantasy. And magical realism is still an extremely small part of the fantasy (or fiction, depending on how it's marketed) market--only a handful of books.
 

A.V. Hollingshead

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Though technically on Earth, Harry Potter certainly holds more in common with Lord of the Rings than it does with most urban fantasy. Eragon is still a rather popular series (loathe it though I do) that is also clearly more LotR-esque than anything else. There is still a clear market and desire for otherworld/less modernized fantasy. Perhaps less so for young adults. Harry Potter is children's literature, and most good high fantasy is either that or adult's literature. But I don't write YA fiction, so that is an issue I won't touch on.
 

Ian Isaro

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I'm not concerned with defining fantasy beyond the point of usefulness. This has come up in some of the magical realism discussions. A term like "urban fantasy" is helpful because it does group a set of stories, but I don't lose any sleep over whether Harry Potter is included in it.

Now that I think about it, I can see a dichotomy that puts urban fantasy and magical realism on the same side. Both are literally about our world with fantastic elements, as opposed to fantasy in a constructed world that is metaphorically about our world. But that's just one way of thinking about it, not a hard line across the genre.
 

AdamR85

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"Magic realism is fantasy written by people who speak Spanish." - Gene Wolfe

Magic realism "is like a polite way of saying you write fantasy." - Terry Patchett

One of the distinctions I've heard as that even in urban fantasy there is at least some effort to explain where the "powers" or "magic" comes from. In magical realism, the magic is simply accepted as being so much a part of the world that it is like gravity, and thus all the characters accept it without needed explanation because its "just how the world is."

So, for instance, Ana Castillo's So Far From God is magical realism, but not urban fantasy. Its a "literary" book, and therefore "respectable." Yet people die and come back to life and fly over church steeples and so forth - and nobody bothers to explain any of it to the reader.
 

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Regarding Original Post

Hi everyone. It isn't so much my own separation or views of how these sub-genres of fantasy are divided so much as what I've gleaned or read in terms of the marketplace (agents, publishers and their categories) which admittedly can blur the lines. Magic realism is continuing to be defined, more so now, in terms of real world settings and magical elements. Thus more and more books are being slotted into that sub-topic. Alice Hoffman is a phenomenal author in that genre. Urban fantasy, I believe, on Ian's input, does share elements of magic realism.

Low fantasy (as defined by Wikipedia)- is a term used to describe a variety of works within differing sub-genres of fantasy fiction. The word "low" refers to the level of prominence of traditional fantasy elements within the work, and is not any sort of remark on the work's quality. Within the fantasy genre, low fantasy is often contrasted with high fantasy, which typically takes place, partly or entirely, in a completely fictional setting and places an emphasis upon fantasy elements such as magic, monsters, and non-real literary devices. Low Fantasy works typically place relatively less emphasis on such fantasy elements and often take place within real-world environments, as opposed to entirely fictional settings.

High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds. High fantasy originated with the writings of William Morris, George MacDonald, and Lord Dunsany, and came to fruition through the work of authors such as J. R. R. Tolkien and C. S. Lewis, whose major fantasy works were published in the 1950s.[1] High fantasy, along with sword and sorcery, has become one of the two genres most commonly associated with the general term fantasy.

I'm interested in where marketplace (reader) interest is between the two.

Too bad "Your Highness" doesn't sound like a good film; saves ticket admission to know ahead of time, though!
 

Kitty Pryde

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UF and MR do share the aspect of our normal-ish world with magic in it, but they're extremely different. I don't believe in general that they share an audience (though there are surely a few people that like both, I read both on occasion). Urban fantasy is built around magical rules and institutions and organizations--fantasy critter societies, supernatural branch of police, rules and explanations for each step of the plot, regimented systems of magical spells. Magical realism is built around magic that isn't pinned down, defined, regulated, systematized or otherwise made sense of. It's a completely different reading experience and why there's little overlap. You never ever ever see MR novels marketed with covers similar to UF novels. And stuff that's somewhere in between MR and UF, like Neil Gaiman or Charles de Lint is a separate subgenre too, I think it gets lumped in with contemporary fantasy.
 

Ian Isaro

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I definitely wasn't trying to say urban fantasy and magical realism are close together. My point, which in retrospect was not made very clearly, was that though classifications may be useful, they usually group things together that aren't the same.

The intended audience is a good point. For example, some urban fantasy is really paranormal romance, and I don't think there is a great deal of overlap in the audiences there. There are people who read both fantasy and romance, of course, but I think they draw from two basically different groups. Though not as strong, I think you could also argue for a divide between the audiences of space opera and hard science fiction.
 
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