How do I find a Beta reader?

Ambitious · Aug 8, 2011

I've been advised by people on this forum to get a Beta reader to go over a novel I've recently completed (a 70000 word crime thriller)

How do I go about contacting a Beta reader? For the record I'm yet to have anything published.

Karen Junker · Aug 8, 2011

There is a forum here where you can post and ask for beta readers. It helps if you give an idea what kind of feedback you're looking for. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

James D. Macdonald · Aug 8, 2011

Who in your extended circle of friends is likely to give the book a good, critical read?

jenelcc · Aug 9, 2011

Are there people you know who like that kind of book? Have you talked about your writing with anyone and had them express interest? I'd think about starting with someone close at hand who can be polite and respectful and yet be honest about the book's flaws. I'm sure the forum here is great, and I love the benefits of an online community like this, but depending on how thick/thin skinned you are it might be a bad idea to turn your work, first thing out of the gate, to people who don't have a vested interest in being kind and encouraging to you. Of course, I'm not published either, and have been ridiculously lucky in the beta reader department, so take my advice for what it is worth.

Parametric · Aug 10, 2011

The best way to find a beta reader is to be one. If you beta read half a dozen people's manuscripts, you'll probably find that most of them offer to return the favour. You might also find it helpful to critique stories in Share Your Work.

dgiharris · Aug 10, 2011

become an active member of AW and you will make a ton of relationships on here and have no problem finding betas.

Also, being involved in local writers groups

then as a last resort there is always friends and family (though they are the ones most likely to sugar coat everything for you)

good luck

Mel...

jaksen · Aug 10, 2011

dgiharris said:
then as a last resort there is always friends and family (though they are the ones most likely to sugar coat everything for you)

good luck

Mel...

meh, not if you've got my family, daughter with multiple degrees and a love of red pens; husband who throws manuscripts across the room shouting, "They'll never buy this!"

Of course, he's been wrong.

To the op: try the beta forum on this site, lots of nice people willing to help out.

And after 50 posts on AW you can show your work, or parts of it, in SYW where many of us will scrutinize, analyze, and offer advice.

Mutive · Aug 10, 2011

You ask for one.

Your request is more likely to be met with a positive response if you've:

1) Betaed something of theirs
2) Gotten your work into good enough shape that it's not unpleasant to read (i.e. it's already as clean as you can get it)
3) Been active in forums/groups/organizations that potential betas appear in
4) Are willing to reciprocate
5) Have already shown that you're open to feedback

There are some sites (Critters, Critique Circle) that facilitate this. For AW, I'd recommend getting your posts up to 50 or so (so that you can participate in SYW), mostly by commenting in SYW. Then share your work and agree to beta for a few people. Undoubtedly one will return the favor if they've enjoyed your work and found you easy to work with.

Like anything, a lot of it is based on what you're willing to put in. If you refuse to beta other people/participate/etc. you're less likely to get a good response than if you are as helpful as you can be, then ask nicely.

RemusShepherd · Aug 10, 2011

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it's a question to which I've always wanted an answer yet never gotten a satisfactory one. Maybe if I attach a qualifier to it:

How do you get a beta reader if you have limited time?

I work, I have chores to do at home. I make time to write. But I don't have time (or energy, or inclination) to socialize on forums with strangers, and I don't have time to trade critiques quid pro quo. I'm in a low-energy crit group that goes through one novel every two years, and even with them I spend more time critiquing than I do writing and I hate it.

Is having lots of friends and spending more time soliciting favors than actually working on your craft the only answer?

dgiharris · Aug 10, 2011

RemusShepherd said:
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it's a question to which I've always wanted an answer yet never gotten a satisfactory one. Maybe if I attach a qualifier to it:

How do you get a beta reader if you have limited time?

I work, I have chores to do at home. I make time to write. But I don't have time (or energy, or inclination) to socialize on forums with strangers, and I don't have time to trade critiques quid pro quo. I'm in a low-energy crit group that goes through one novel every two years, and even with them I spend more time critiquing than I do writing and I hate it.

Is having lots of friends and spending more time soliciting favors than actually working on your craft the only answer?

This is only my opinion but you have the absolute wrong attitude here.

The reason why I belong to AW, do crits, and am generous with my writer's group (both in time, energy, and effort) isn't so much because i'm a great altruistic guy (though that is part of it

The real reason is because those things make me a better writer as well as alert me to opportunities.

Through networking I found out about AW (thanks IT), a paying contest that I won, and a magazine that would be perfect for my articles (which they accepted and paid me 15 cents a word for

) And when I finish writing my book I will have no shortage of betas. And not just random strangers but people whose writing ability exceed mine and whom I trust completely.

That is easily worth the time and effort i've expended and then some.

But if your time is too valueable then you could always pay an editor or proofreader to go through it. There are professional editors/betas out there that charge $20 - $40 per hour. Or, you can take your chances with a random stranger who you know nothing about.

Your choice.

Mel...

dgiharris · Aug 10, 2011

jaksen said:
meh, not if you've got my family, daughter with multiple degrees and a love of red pens; husband who throws manuscripts across the room shouting, "They'll never buy this!"

Of course, he's been wrong.

To the op: try the beta forum on this site, lots of nice people willing to help out.

And after 50 posts on AW you can show your work, or parts of it, in SYW where many of us will scrutinize, analyze, and offer advice.

did they recently change this? I thought you could instantly post on SYW. Pretty sure this isn't accurate.

Mel...

Mutive · Aug 10, 2011

RemusShepherd said:
IHow do you get a beta reader if you have limited time?

I work, I have chores to do at home. I make time to write. But I don't have time (or energy, or inclination) to socialize on forums with strangers, and I don't have time to trade critiques quid pro quo. I'm in a low-energy crit group that goes through one novel every two years, and even with them I spend more time critiquing than I do writing and I hate it.

Is having lots of friends and spending more time soliciting favors than actually working on your craft the only answer?

How do you become a writer (in general) if you don't have adequate time?

Becoming a (good) writer involves spending lots of time writing. In addition, you'll need to edit your stuff. You learn a lot about how to edit from editing other people's stuff. (It's next to impossible to learn on your own, as you're too close to your own work, especially starting out - at least that's what most of us learn.) You also need to learn about the industry, read a lot, learn writing tricks, etc. etc.

What you're asking here is "how do I become a great writer without putting any work in?" The short answer is, you can't. Your second answer seems to be "how do I get other people to give me a lot of free labor, without doing anything for them in return?" The answer to that question is probably to be found in Tom Sawyer...

But most of us are a bit smarter than that. You tend to get what you put in (and this is true in any profession/hobby). If you don't have time for novels, try short stories. They're far faster both to write and to critique than novels.

RemusShepherd · Aug 10, 2011

Mutive said:
Becoming a (good) writer involves spending lots of time writing. In addition, you'll need to edit your stuff. You learn a lot about how to edit from editing other people's stuff. (It's next to impossible to learn on your own, as you're too close to your own work, especially starting out - at least that's what most of us learn.) You also need to learn about the industry, read a lot, learn writing tricks, etc. etc.

What you're asking here is "how do I become a great writer without putting any work in?" The short answer is, you can't.

I am not asking that. I said that I was able to make time to write. I've also found time to learn about the industry and learn a lot about writing. (I don't read very much and that's a secret shame; I have no idea where to find time to do that.)

I've been in several crit groups and they do teach something, but I am always the best writer in the group. I end up being the teacher, and I find little to learn from my crit partners. If I could corral a professional writer into a crit circle then the situation might be different. So far I always end up with people who can barely string sentences together. I've learned all that I can from the illiterates that inhabit the typical crit group. I need a knowledgeable beta.

Your second answer seems to be "how do I get other people to give me a lot of free labor, without doing anything for them in return?" The answer to that question is probably to be found in Tom Sawyer...

I *am* asking that. And if the answer is "you can't", then so be it. It was a stupid question but I had to ask it anyway.

Maybe I'll just buy a professional editor's time; thanks for that suggestion.

Mutive · Aug 10, 2011

RemusShepherd said:
I've learned all that I can from the illiterates that inhabit the typical crit group. I need a knowledgeable beta.

A bit of advice - find a better critique group. They do exist. Yeah, it takes work to find them, but it makes more sense to put your time into that than in wasting your time with a critique group that you get nothing out of.

RemusShepherd said:
I *am* asking that. And if the answer is "you can't", then so be it. It was a stupid question but I had to ask it anyway.

Maybe I'll just buy a professional editor's time; thanks for that suggestion.

A professional isn't a bad way to go, nor is deciding "I don't have time for the long stuff, maybe I'd rather write shorter pieces" (which are *much* easier to get betaed).

Sadly, the best betas tend to be the most experienced. This means that they're also the most cynical about helping people they don't think are going to reciprocate.

jimbro · Aug 10, 2011

This is all good advice.

I got four people to agree to beta my current book. Two of these came from right here on AW after I posted a request for betas in the beta subforum. Neither replied in the post thread itself, but contacted me via PM. In both cases, we traded manuscripts.

I also volunteered to beta two other MS for other AWers, without requesting a quid pro quo, in case I needed to ask them later. I'm still working on one of these (it's very well written). Doing a good job of beta reading is time-consuming and I'm neglecting my own rewrites to do this, but I did promise to do it, so I have to finish.

My local writing group was not especially helpful. While everyone was supportive, they are focused on finishing their own damn books and (maybe) seemed a little resentful that I had finally finished mine. This may be an unfair judgement - even if true, it's hard to blame them for wanting to be writing rather than reviewing.

Two others were friends of mine. Both of these were very enthusiastic. Because they were friends, I had to take extra care to make sure that when I said I wanted a brutally honest critique, I really meant it, dammit! One was a co-worker who I approached because she always had a book on her desk (such people like to read- a good indicator).

Recommendations:

Friends, co-workers, acquaintences. People you can bug everyday. Choose those who will actually have the time to really read it, and who are known to be readers.
Answer the requests in the Beta subforum here and ask if they have time to trade. Even if it is only a few chapters, that can still be helpful to both of you.

Ambitious · Aug 10, 2011

Parametric said:
The best way to find a beta reader is to be one. If you beta read half a dozen people's manuscripts, you'll probably find that most of them offer to return the favour. You might also find it helpful to critique stories in Share Your Work.

Thank you for the information. I could become a beta reader but would I be of much help? I'm yet to have anything published so I probably won't be able to offer the best of advise to other writers. Will that be a problem?

Little Ming · Aug 10, 2011

dgiharris said:
did they recently change this? I thought you could instantly post on SYW. Pretty sure this isn't accurate.

Mel...

You can post in other people's threads, but you can't start a new thread until you have 50 posts. It's been that way since I joined, before that I don't know.

Mutive · Aug 10, 2011

Ambitious said:
I'm yet to have anything published so I probably won't be able to offer the best of advise to other writers. Will that be a problem?

It shouldn't be.

The nice thing about critiquing other people's work is that you learn how to edit your own.

Read a piece. Think about what you liked/didn't like. What worked and didn't work. Where were you confused? What bored you, dragged, or didn't make sense?

Figure all this out and type up a critique where you say, "I liked these parts, didn't like those, got confused here, and didn't think this made sense for these reasons."

The nice thing about SYW is that you can see other people's critiques, so get a feel for how they tend to be done. (You can also check out critiques somewhere like Critters or Critique Circle.)

Susan Coffin · Aug 10, 2011

dgiharris said:
did they recently change this? I thought you could instantly post on SYW. Pretty sure this isn't accurate.

Mel...

It's true.

quicklime · Aug 10, 2011

RemusShepherd said:
. I make time to write. But I don't have time (or energy, or inclination) to socialize on forums with strangers, and I don't have time to trade critiques quid pro quo.?

without going into the issue of "having tme" versus "making time", nothing is free--I've betaed one book basically gratis and have a second waiting, with the caveat I'm SLOW, and probably done doing them entirely. So unless you catch someone at the right time, you reciprocate or renumerate--that said, if you're serious abou tlearning your craft, you will learn as much betaing and critting three books as you will in just writing five...easily.

Quick

Mutive · Aug 11, 2011

quicklime said:
you will learn as much betaing and critting three books as you will in just writing five...easily.

Quick

Yup. The nice thing about betaing is that you learn how to read the way a writer does - and to look at pieces critically. Eventually you can translate this skill over to your own work.

Plus, every time you find something that *really* annoys you, you know not to do it in your own work. Critiquing is generally want it takes (for me) to get the lesson to sink in.

How do I find a Beta reader?

Ambitious

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

jenelcc

A good kind of crazy

Parametric

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

jaksen

Caped Codder

Mutive

Blissfully Clueless

RemusShepherd

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

Mutive

Blissfully Clueless

RemusShepherd

Mutive

Blissfully Clueless

jimbro

Ambitious

Little Ming

Mutive

Blissfully Clueless

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

Mutive

Blissfully Clueless