CreateSpace or Lulu??

ResearchGuy · May 2, 2011

stoi689 said:
http://www.hundredpublishing.com/brief.html

Has anybody seen this before, or had any experience of using the services? Almost seems too good to be true.

Interesting. IMHO, it would bear further inquiry. Could be a promising option (for those for whom, in principle, this is the right approach, of course) if they deliver on the description.

Can you order a book or two they have produced, examine typical web pages, and maybe contact one or more of their clients for comment?

--Ken

KevinMcLaughlin · May 3, 2011

stoi689 said:
http://www.hundredpublishing.com/brief.html

Has anybody seen this before, or had any experience of using the services? Almost seems too good to be true.

Their Fee: about $1200

102 books: about $408
ISBN: $10
Listing the book: free and automatic
Advice on selling to booksellers: Go read DeanWesleySmith.com for free
Setting up your webpage: takes them fifteen minutes tops
Templates in .doc for print formating: free from Createspace
Basic proofreading: time spent...say an hr per hundred pages, maybe less
Cover design: Based on the ones on their site, two hrs or less (what it would take me to spin out a similarly crappy job)
Facebook promotion: one minute
Rest of the stuff: basically not worth a ton unless they get HUGE traffic

So, they're paying about $418 of the $1200, earning $778. In return, they're putting about five or six hours or work in.

Wouldn't you rather just do it yourself?

(There's some companies out which do this sort of thing and do it well. I've heard good things about Telemachus Press and Lucky Bat Press. Haven't used them myself, but heard good things. Caveat emptor, however.)

ResearchGuy · May 3, 2011

KevinMcLaughlin said:
. . . Basic proofreading: time spent...say an hr per hundred pages, maybe less. . .
. . .

Not in my world. I cannot even READ that fast, let alone proofread that fast. Even "basic," finding and fixing errors in spelling, punctuation, diction . . .

--Ken

KevinMcLaughlin · May 3, 2011

ResearchGuy said:
Not in my world. I cannot even READ that fast, let alone proofread that fast. Even "basic," finding and fixing errors in spelling, punctuation, diction . . .

--Ken

I was counting "basic" into that equation, but I also wrote that pretty late at night, and I'm thinking my math was bad.

I only read at about 20-25k words an hour (80-100 ms. pages), and I only proof at about half that rate. Then again, I haven't done professional editing in...a really long time, so I figure I'm probably slow. Also wildly depends on the writing quality, in my experience: work with only a few errors per page is going to be faster than proofing something that has errors every other sentence.

What's your speed? Curious what most folks would consider a good speed for finding basic spelling/grammar/punctuation errors.

jdm · May 3, 2011

According to the currency converter I just used, their 599 British Sterling Pounds comes out to about $987 US dollars.

TheMurf · May 3, 2011

I used CreateSpace for my first book as I found that easier to get into than Lulu. With it being tied to Amazon it worked really well to get on amazon.com and .co.uk although I haven't seen much from any other source (for instance it is listed on barnes & Noble. That could be due to my lack of publicising. My next book is going the same way (unless I get a phone call from penguin obviously)

I found the system relatively easy and straightforward, the only hiccup was cover design. That proved trickier than I expected but worked

For the e-book I went straight to smashwords and they publish to all formats, including kindle. This was really easy, especially if you download the free formatting guide first

Just my personal findings, anyone have specific questions feel free to get in touch

ResearchGuy · May 3, 2011

TheMurf said:
. . . smashwords and they publish to all formats, including kindle.. . .

Since when Kindle? Last I heard, they had still not worked out an agreement with Amazon to get Smashwords books into the Kindle store. (That was direct from friends who have used Smashwords and posted email from the company.) Format is not the same as having it in the Kindle store.

--Ken

ResearchGuy · May 3, 2011

KevinMcLaughlin said:
. . .I only read at about 20-25k words an hour (80-100 ms. pages), and I only proof at about half that rate.. . ..

Yikes! Way faster than I would reasonably expect to do proofing, depending on the extent of problems in the manuscript. Actual editing (beyond fixing obvious errors) is much slower yet,laborious, grinding, line-by-line work.

--Ken

KevinMcLaughlin · May 3, 2011

Actual editing, very different. Completely agree.

The more detailed/better quality you want the editing, the longer it is gonna take in my experience.

Proofing, though? Again, guess it depends on the work quality. I've seen some stuff that would take me 10 minutes a page. But if the work is pretty clean to begin with, it's pretty fast.

jairey · May 7, 2011

Speaking of Lulu ... I was on their site about a year and a half ago and easily got into the "upload my formatted book... free" pathway. I just went on it again and it seems as though the site is now really pushing their bundled packages. Am I misremembering?

ResearchGuy · May 7, 2011

jairey said:
Speaking of Lulu ... I was on their site about a year and a half ago and easily got into the "upload my formatted book... free" pathway. I just went on it again and it seems as though the site is now really pushing their bundled packages. Am I misremembering?

They are pushing paid services relentlessly. And they keep hustling short-time discounts for bulk purchases. Still useful as self-publishing on training wheels, but harder to slog through the promotions.

--Ken

jairey · May 8, 2011

Thanks, that's what I thought I was seeing. Createspace seems to be holding on to the same interface and it's not difficult to get into the pure "print my book" mode. (I've self-published one book of short stories thru them and have helped a few local people use them to get their books into physical form) My longer WIP is still churning through revisions, but I hold hope to go the commercial route with it. (Pay me! Pay me!)

jsmith · May 8, 2011

Createspace

I self-published my novel Eye of a Fly on Kindle and Nook (and Google Editions) but some friends don't have such devices and wanted a paperback version. I've had a great experience with Createspace. I provided a PDF of the manuscript and one of the Cover-art and they printed a paperback that looks great and cost me very little ($6 for each proof-copy until I got it right).

I have software for typesetting the manuscript and creating the cover (Createspace will do this for you for $$$, but I avoided that).

Createspace appears to be genuine POD with a super printing machine (many POD companies use conventional printers and charge big bucks for each small book). My novel is 230 pages (novella) and the author's price to me is $3.60/copy. I set the list price to $10.50 in order for Amazon to carry it.

They don't do any promotion or have distribution (other than Amazon, Barnes and Noble and a few others) but neither did the small press that published my other two novels.

My novel will sink or swim on its own--- I don't have to pay others to help it fail.

Oddly enough, the version that is selling the best is the Google Editions one. This is an Ebook that can be read on any computer or Ipad

jsmith · May 8, 2011

Createspace is virtually free if you can typeset your manuscript and generate cover-art (so you don't need any of their plans). They do a fantastic job, too!

entropic island · May 8, 2011

Lulu's great. No experience with Createspace, sorry.

shaldna · Jun 21, 2011

stoi689 said:
http://www.hundredpublishing.com/brief.html

Has anybody seen this before, or had any experience of using the services? Almost seems too good to be true.

ResearchGuy said:
Interesting. IMHO, it would bear further inquiry. Could be a promising option (for those for whom, in principle, this is the right approach, of course) if they deliver on the description.

Can you order a book or two they have produced, examine typical web pages, and maybe contact one or more of their clients for comment?

--Ken

Guys, my hubby knows Tim Hirst who owns Hirst Publishing and 100 publishing. I did a post on the companies - and I would mention that they are SEPARATE comapnies again, over at http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214040

Not too good to be true. In my experience and the people I know, 100 does exactly what it says on the tin.

stoi689 · Jul 3, 2011

Think I'm going to plump with Create Space next time. I've had another hat thrown into the ring though recently. Because my book is on sports (boxing to be precise) I've had a couple of people express interest in paying for an advertisement to be put on one of the pages.

This is an interesting development BUT I don't know how that fits in to the formatting process and Create Space's ideas of suitable content (the way Lulu allow 15 photos but for a price etc).

Any non-fiction people have experiene of putting ads in their books?

ResearchGuy · Jul 3, 2011

stoi689 said:
. . . my book is on sports (boxing to be precise) . . .

Off topic-ish: Let me know when it is available. Might want to buy it.

--Ken

stoi689 · Jul 4, 2011

Will do Ken! If all goes to plan it will hopefully be the follow up to this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/144678990X/?tag=absowrit-21

ResearchGuy · Jul 4, 2011

stoi689 said:
Will do Ken! If all goes to plan it will hopefully be the follow up to this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/144678990X/?tag=absowrit-21

Cool! I put a copy of that one in my amazon.com (U.S.) shopping cart. I'm a casual boxing fan (I watch on HBO and Showtime) -- enough to probably find value in the book and in the follow up.

--Ken

veinglory · Jul 4, 2011

KevinMcLaughlin said:
I only read at about 20-25k words an hour (80-100 ms. pages), and I only proof at about half that rate.

Proof at half you natural reading rate? Um. Even if I found and corrected only one simple typo per page I would take longer. If it was a typical manuscript with several issues per page and some of them complex (slips in tense, POV etc)... ten times my reading speed at the very least, probably more.

BookFormatterJen · Sep 4, 2011

I also like to mention that CreateSpace has a cover creator which is only free. And aside from Amazon, they have a feature called Expanded Channel Distribution where your books can be distributed in bookstores, libraries, online retailers, academic institutions, etc. A wider audience for self-publishing authors.

Old Hack · Sep 4, 2011

Jen, you seem to misunderstand CreateSpace's ECD. From CreateSpace's own website:

What is the Expanded Distribution Channel? The Expanded Distribution Channel (EDC) offers you the potential to distribute your book to a larger audience through more outlets including: retailers, bookstores, libraries, academic institutions, wholesalers, and distributors. Through the EDC you have the potential to distribute your work to thousands of retail and wholesale outlets throughout the U.S. Regardless of whether or not you include your title in the EDC, all CreateSpace titles can be distributed through both the Amazon.com and eStore Channels.
How does it work?

Most online retailers, bookstores, and libraries find books through purchasing relationships with large wholesalers. If your book is not listed with these wholesalers, some retailers may not be able to buy your book, even if a customer specifically requests your title. Through the EDC you can make your title available to these wholesalers who in turn make your title available to thousands of online retailers, bookstores, and libraries.

This doesn't mean that your books will be "distributed in bookstores, libraries, online retailers, academic institutions, etc."; it means that your books will be included in a catalogue from which those places are able to order it if they know it exists. That catalogue is a very basic one: it includes only title, author, publisher and ISBN. No blurb, no cover image. And no sales efforts will be made to draw any attention to your book unless you do it yourself. "Distribution" implies that the book will actually reach those bookshops etc by virtue of being included in this program: it's not going to.

In my view it's disingenuous of CreateSpace to call this "distribution", when publishing has a long-established meaning for that word. Because this does not match that meaning.

StoneWheller · Sep 19, 2011

"Createspace $519 (with Pro Plan, which requires a upfront $39 fee and then $5 annually, for each Pro Plan title) and standard shipping $43"

What is the Pro Plan? The only thing I saw on Createspace that mention the word Pro wanted over $4,000. Tell me more about this. Thanks

jairey · Sep 21, 2011

The "Pro Plan" costs an initial $39 -- and it's supposed to be $5 for each subsequent year, but the community comments indicate no one's been charged that (yet, last I checked). It opens your book to the "expanded distribution" channels BUT it also decreases your printing price by a very significant amount. (half?) You see it when you get into the pricing your book area -- the part that shows you your print cost and what you need to price at to make money on Amazon, through Createspace etc. since you have to allow each feeder in the purchasing chain to make money, you have to mark up something like 60% over your printing cost. (That's printing cost before shipping: shipping when you order 10 or more books of a reasonable weight is very, very fair). You can buy the Pro Plan and not use the Expanded Distribution option, this means your list price can be lower -- Expanded distribution adds another "feeder" into the profit chain. I should note that although you have to mark up for Amazon's cut, if you push the free Createspace web/purchase area you're given, you get 20% more profit. This allows you to offer "deals" -- either a % off or a $ amount to people who purchase through that source. And you can still make more than adding Amazon into the feeding chain. Not a bad marketing scheme, as things go.

YMMV

CreateSpace or Lulu??

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

KevinMcLaughlin

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

KevinMcLaughlin

jdm

TheMurf

I have opinions and I share them :)

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

KevinMcLaughlin

jairey

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

jairey

jsmith

jsmith

entropic island

.

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

stoi689

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

stoi689

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

veinglory

volitare nequeo

BookFormatterJen

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

StoneWheller

Dancing Under Wintery Stars

jairey