Prologues or Not?

really depends on the prologue itself. don't really have an opinion for the entire idea in general, there are just prologues i like and prologues i don't like.

if we're actually talking prologues here, the middle of this conversation has left me a smidgen confused.

Torgo said:

Would you skip an epilogue?

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There have been times I wish I had skipped the epilogue. Just like after finishing the prologue, I wish I had skipped it, too, since it really added nothing to the story.

My mom, however, will start reading at the copyright and reads every. single. page. Acknowledgements, thanks, dedications, blurbs for the book, prologues...all the way through past the end to teasers for the next book, or for another book the publisher is putting out, the appendices, lexicons, family trees....

catian said:

My questions is:
How do you feel about the strcuture of any given book, including prologues?

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There are numerous threads on this very topic here, and you'll find that opinion varies widely on the topic. In short there is no right or wrong answer.

Some people like them, some don't.

Some stories need them, some don't.

catian said:

My next question is this
the lack of consistancy in maintaining the prologues.
One writer (won't name and shame) would have one prologue in one story, and no prologue in his next one.
That I sure do not understand.
The point I am trying to make is that you are either have a prologue or not but to switch between the two, a yes here and no there, distract me and so I won't take up the author anymore.

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I don't see why you would expect an author to be consistent in including prologues. Some novels benefit from a prologue, some don't. Some benefit from an epilogue, some don't. I would expect an author to make that kind of call on a case-by-case basis depending on the novel, using prologues only where they feel it's appropriate to. Basically, each story is different, so you tell it the way you think best.

Maybe this is all stemming from you not really seeing why they're used, and I wonder if that's down to having read some specific novels where you felt they weren't necessary? Are there any you'd like to mention that you thought were either poor or unnecessary?

dpaterso said:

I think you may have picked a really, really bad example, Pratchett is a master of humor timing and delivery. Hesitant? No, totally intentional, in this case.

-Derek

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I would tend to agree here. Pratchett can make a lot of things work that really shouldn't because it's all about timing and delivery.

Torgo said:

I still don't understand people who skip prologues.
Would you skip an epilogue?

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Guilty, of both. If I see a book has a prologue usually, I skip it & look for another book. But, one of my favorite books has both a prologue and epilolgue. I think I read it five times before realizing it *had* a prologue. When I read it I thought it was superfluous - all it did was expand on one peice of information about the MC without adding anything critical to the story. I got round to reading the epilogue after reading it about 10 time (yes, I really think I read this book that much). Basically, it was an extension of the ending - that is, I think the material, which followed immediately in story-time, made explicit something I guessed at.

I like to begin reading a story in story 'now' time, with the main character. That's usually why I skip books with prologues. I think I have said before that I skip prologues. But really, I skip books with prologues. But, if Ch 1 looks interesting enough for me to read, I'd start from Ch 1, and if I got to some thing really confusing, I'd look at the prologue. Otherwise I'd keep reading and read the prologue after I finished. See what light, if any, it sheds.

Layla Nahar said:

Guilty, of both. If I see a book has a prologue usually, I skip it & look for another book. But, one of my favorite books has both a prologue and epilolgue. I think I read it five times before realizing it *had* a prologue. When I read the prologue I thought it was superfluous - all it did was expand on one piece of information about the MC without adding anything critical to the story. I got round to reading the epilogue after reading it about 10 time (yes, I really think I read this book that many times). Basically, it was an extension of the ending - that is, the material, which followed immediately in story-time, made explicit something I guessed at.

I like to begin reading a story in story 'now' time, with the main character. That's usually why I skip books with prologues. I think I have said before that I skip prologues. But really, I skip books with prologues. But, if Ch 1 looks interesting enough for me to read, I'd start from Ch 1, and if I got to some thing really confusing, I'd look at the prologue. Otherwise I'd keep reading and read the prologue after I finished. See what light, if any, it sheds.

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I find that attitude so amazingly weird that I can't get my head around it. But I know you are by no means alone, and it's why I always advise authors never to use the P-word. Just call it Chapter One.

catian said:

My next question is this
the lack of consistancy in maintaining the prologues.
One writer (won't name and shame) would have one prologue in one story, and no prologue in his next one.
That I sure do not understand.
The point I am trying to make is that you are either have a prologue or not but to switch between the two, a yes here and no there, distract me and so I won't take up the author anymore.

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Prologues are a function of structure, and each story has its own structural requirements. Some stories are told in a linear fashion. Some stories change time and location, jumping back and forth. Some stories are episodic, others have a strong through-line. Some stories have a single POV. Others have several. In the same way, some stories need prologues while others don't.

Torgo said:

I find that attitude so amazingly weird that I can't get my head around it.

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Is it the wanting to start with the MC in story now, or is it that I make a judgment (by skipping the pro or epilogue) for myself about how the story should be perceived? I think thats what it comes down to - the reader is making a decision about how the story will be told rather than going with the author's decision. Or is it that the reader who skips is missing out on something? Hope to avoid that my questions sound like challenges. (I've seen threads about prologues get quite heated) I find it interesting to learn more about it when people have different ideas about the same thing.

catian said:

It is a lot of pages to turn for me anyway

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They're made of paper. It's not that hard to do.

Layla Nahar said:

Is it the wanting to start with the MC in story now, or is it that I make a judgment (by skipping the pro or epilogue) for myself about how the story should be perceived? I think thats what it comes down to - the reader is making a decision about how the story will be told rather than going with the author's decision. Or is it that the reader who skips is missing out on something? Hope to avoid that my questions sound like challenges. (I've seen threads about prologues get quite heated) I find it interesting to learn more about it when people have different ideas about the same thing.

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Heh, don't worry, ask away!

What's odd for me is the disregard for the author's intention, yes. The author clearly feels that the book wouldn't be artistically complete without the prologue/epilogue - she intends you to read it because the story doesn't make sense without it, or because the emotional arc of the story demands it, or something. As a reader you don't, in advance, know why the prologue is there, so you don't know what you might be missing out on.

When the average prologue is, say, three pages, and you know it's possible you might have to go back and read it at some point - perhaps if you have just read the whole book and something doesn't make sense - then I can't really see why you would want to skip it? Just because something is called a prologue doesn't necessarily mean that it only contains superfluous information.

Now, having said all that, I do often feel prologues are a waste of time, because you see a lot that are just the main character getting born on a dark and stormy night, and some druid making a prophecy over them or something. That often adds nothing except for working as a dramatic opening for a story which might otherwise start off quite boringly (which in itself suggests the author has started telling the story at the wrong point.) There are an awful lot of prologues which could easily be cut or skipped without harming the book. The trouble is, as a reader, you don't know what you're getting until you've read it; so I always do.

Torgo said:

Now, having said all that, I do often feel prologues are a waste of time, because you see a lot that are just the main character getting born on a dark and stormy night, and some druid making a prophecy over them or something. That often adds nothing except for working as a dramatic opening for a story which might otherwise start off quite boringly (which in itself suggests the author has started telling the story at the wrong point.) There are an awful lot of prologues which could easily be cut or skipped without harming the book. The trouble is, as a reader, you don't know what you're getting until you've read it; so I always do.

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Which is why I'm always dubious and end up rolling my eyes when an author insists, demands, that their book needs the prologue or the reader won't understand. Many times, the story don't need it, the reader doesn't need it to understand* and the more it happens, the more I find myself asking...why do I even bother?

*on those rare occasions that it's vital is a very rare jewel indeed and I can sit back, nod and say 'that was needed'. Most often times, I don't.

It's getting to the point that I am willing to skip them all...except that usually they're only a page or two long and it's not like I'm having to roll a boulder uphill or anything. I will admit to doing a lot of skimming over it, though.

catian said:

Sometimes the pictures on it do not make sense to me and how they could relate to the story.
I have a copy, paperback of Mice and Men -Mandarin paperback 1992- the front page is a paiting of man and I still do not know who the picture is supposed to be of.

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Maybe it was George.

Torgo said:

What's odd for me is the disregard for the author's intention,
...
you see a lot that are just the main character getting born on a dark and stormy night, and some druid making a prophecy over them or something.

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I'm glad I asked. I'm one of those people who think that once the piece is finished and is 'out there' the author's intent is irrelevant. I think there is actually a name for this and I think it is usually referred to in reference to what did the writer mean, what does something symbolize. So that's why I feel free to disregard the authors intention. It's my read now, you know?

Oh - the book which I referred to which I love and have read at least 10 times (it's one of the books I've studied closely to see how a good story is told) - the prolouge begins with the MC being born in a rainstorm! yep

I have often found that when a book has a prologue, the main part of the book is not to my taste, but I definitely have a bias that associates prologues with weak story telling. (story started in the wrong place & such like) And I do see your point that I might be missing out on something by choosing to make my own experience, as it were, rather than going with the experience the author chose to set out for me.

Interesting exchange. Thanks for your follow up.
LN

Layla Nahar said:

I'm glad I asked. I'm one of those people who think that once the piece is finished and is 'out there' the author's intent is irrelevant.

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Yes, in many ways this is true and I agree. I was taught 'practical criticism' at college - you get a poem, say, with no author name and no context, and it's up to you to construct your own critique of it without leaning on stuff you know already. Equally, if I write a book really hamfistedly and to most people it comes off as racist or something, I can't really complain that wasn't my intent.

However there are limits to how much sense that makes; I mean, for example, the author intends that you read each chapter in order, instead of skipping even-numbered ones. You're free to disregard that intention, but it doesn't seem wise. To me, skipping a prologue is in the same bracket.

I also agree with you that a book even having a prologue is often a red flag... As an editor my heart sinks a little bit when I see one. However, it's my duty to press on and read it and approach the work without preconceptions. (Readers of course don't have the same obligation.)

Layla Nahar said:

So that's why I feel free to disregard the authors intention. It's my read now, you know?

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But what about the book's intention? It makes no more sense to me to skip the prologue than it does to skip every thirty-seventh page. If the prologue wasn't part of the story then it wouldn't be in the book.

Layla Nahar said:

I have often found that when a book has a prologue, the main part of the book is not to my taste, but I definitely have a bias that associates prologues with weak story telling.

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In that case your problem is with poor writing, not with prologues in themselves. Perhaps there is a link between poor writing and the presence of a prologue. Maybe most prologues are pointless, and bad, and lazy. I can't say either way; I honestly haven't noticed, but it's plain that many here have. Even still. The solution to this problem is not, to me, to skip the prologue. The solution when faced with poor writing is to stop reading the book.

Layla Nahar said:

I'm glad I asked. I'm one of those people who think that once the piece is finished and is 'out there' the author's intent is irrelevant.

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Seems to me, though, that one would at least read the story from beginning to end before drawing conclusions about the author's intentions. It makes no sense for a reader to decide in advance, arbitrarily, and without context that a certain part of the book is irrelevant.

Why do threads on this topic pop up once a week? I don't understand it. Is it worth looking into having a "Never Ending Prologue Thread" much like there is a similar "Never Ending PA Thread" in Bewares? Sincere question.

Toothpaste said:

Why do threads on this topic pop up once a week? I don't understand it. Is it worth looking into having a "Never Ending Prologue Thread" much like there is a similar "Never Ending PA Thread" in Bewares? Sincere question.

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I've often wondered this myself, honestly.

I can pretty much think of a never-ending list of topics that would qualify for the 'Never-ending thread on ...'

It may reduce the number of repetitive questions, but I suspect those types of questions are something longer standing members just have to grin and tolerate. I don't think a Never-ending thread would stop those intent on not bothering to read sticky threads or browsing a tad before rushing in to post a question.

DeleyanLee said:

I've often wondered this myself, honestly.

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BethS said:

Seems to me, though, that one would at least read the story from beginning to end before drawing conclusions about the author's intentions. It makes no sense for a reader to decide in advance, arbitrarily, and without context that a certain part of the book is irrelevant.

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I think that once the work is finished and released, the author's intention is irrelevant to my experience of the work. So reading and then drawing conclusions is irrelevant to me. Thats my logic. Whether the blue curtains are just blue curtains, or whether I need to know some info about the story in a certain order, I see it as all part of my choice as how I experience the story. I do see that I risk missing out on something by choosing to experience the work in a different way from what the author laid out. (I will say that in my limited experience of prologues I have yet to see myself as having spoiled the story by skipping a prologue.)

If anyone needs me, I'll be right over here in the corner getting stabby.

Misa Buckley said:

They're made of paper. It's not that hard to do.

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Plus, there are ebooks which have the good grace to open on the first page of the actual story (and yes, I include the prologue in that).

My Kindle books all have covers, acknowledgements and dedications but when you first open a book, it starts on the first page of part-of-the-story text.

ETA: Wasn't getting stabby at Misa's post. I meant this, being another prologue thread.