reprinting a book in public domain

[nancy sv]

This is probably an odd question, but I'm hoping someone will have the answer.

I met a woman today whose father wrote a book in 1952 with a ghost writer. Because the father didn't know what he was doing, the book was copyrighted by the ghost writer. 20 years later, the copyright was gifted to the father - they still have the original letter from the ghost writer.

Unfortunately, the father didn't know that he only had 7 months to get the copyright transferred into his own name, so never did it and eventually the book went into the public domain.

Now, the ghost writer's son is printing the book and selling it. The daughter of the father wants to print the book and sell it as well - it's her father's story after all.

How does that work? Can she do it? What about the ISBN number? Would she and the ghost writer's son both use the same ISBN and have the book printed in different locations?

[Gillhoughly]

I am not a lawyer, so you or she should check with one who is familiar with this kind of issue. You could try writing this guy: http://www.thewritelawyer.com/

But I should think that if the book is in the public domain, then she can put out her own version of it.

It needs to be different from the other one. Perhaps she could write a special forward. As the daughter of the author, she can inject something special to that edition to make it more attractive to readers. Her personal memories about her dad, the writing of his book (leaving out ALL reference about how he was ripped off by the ghostwriter, it avoids legal issues) special annotations, photos--those make it a stand out.

If it is doable, then she can certainly upload the book to Lulu or Createspace under her own imprint and sell it from there.



That ghostwriter was a real tool.

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by nancy sv

Now, the ghost writer's son is printing the book and selling it. The daughter of the father wants to print the book and sell it as well - it's her father's story after all.

How does that work? Can she do it? What about the ISBN number? Would she and the ghost writer's son both use the same ISBN and have the book printed in different locations?

You're absolutely sure it's public domain, right?

If so, anyone can print and sell it. I could do it, you could do it, the guy over there could do it.

The daughter would have to get her own ISBN. The ISBN uniquely identifies not only the book, but the publisher and the format. Any editing done by the ghostwriter's son would be copyrighted by him and not available. Any editing the daughter did would be hers.

[nancy sv]

Thanks so much! I love the idea of her adding a special chapter to the book to make it her own. Would it then have a different ISBN number?

I agree that the ghost writer was a jerk. I feel badly for her - she wants the story so badly!

[nancy sv]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

You're absolutely sure it's public domain, right?

If so, anyone can print and sell it. I could do it, you could do it, the guy over there could do it.

The daughter would have to get her own ISBN. The ISBN uniquely identifies not only the book, but the publisher and the format. Any editing done by the ghostwriter's son would be copyrighted by him and not available. Any editing the daughter did would be hers.

Perfect! Thank you! She said it's in the public domain, but that would be something to check out for sure. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by nancy sv

Unfortunately, the father didn't know that he only had 7 months to get the copyright transferred into his own name, so never did it and eventually the book went into the public domain.

I very much doubt this. Works can not enter the public domain in this way.

It may be an orphaned work, it's likely out of print, but it is not in the public domain.

It can't be. It's too soon.

IANAL. But you need to look into this.

[nancy sv]

Originally Posted by Medievalist

I very much doubt this. Works can not enter the public domain in this way.

It may be an orphaned work, it's likely out of print, but it is not in the public domain.

It can't be. It's too soon.

IANAL. But you need to look into this.

How long does the copyright last? I really don't know much about the book, but she said it's public domain. For sure she'll need to make sure before she does anything.

[nancy sv]

I just did a quick search and found this:

Do I have to renew my copyright?
No. Works created on or after January 1, 1978, are not subject to renewal registration. As to works published or registered prior to January 1, 1978, renewal registration is optional after 28 years but does provide certain legal advantages.

This book was first published in 1952. Sounds like she'll need to go back to the contact and figure out what's happening with it.

[blacbird]

This is a tricky one, but I tend to agree with Medievalist, above. This work is probably not in public domain. I most certainly would not assume it is, solely on the basis of its odd history.

caw

[nancy sv]

I talked with her today and mentioned that she needed to make absolute sure that it was in the public domain and she assured me it is. She actually wrote to the government copyright office (or whatever it is) to see if there was anything she could do and they wrote back saying that it's in the public domain now and there is absolutely nothing she can do to change that.

Another question came up though - what about the pictures in the original version? Can she scan them and put them in her copy? She doesn't have the originals - apparently they are with the ghost writer's son.

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by nancy sv

I talked with her today and mentioned that she needed to make absolute sure that it was in the public domain and she assured me it is. She actually wrote to the government copyright office (or whatever it is) to see if there was anything she could do and they wrote back saying that it's in the public domain now and there is absolutely nothing she can do to change that.

That's just . . . . odd. That isn't how it works; publishers or rights holders can register copyright, but the LOC, the copyright office for the U.S. has no mechanism to track rights holders. They track registrations; that's it.

Moreover, there is something she can do if it is in public domain; she can produce a new and substantially different edition of the book by adding, updating and enhancing it, and register copyright on the new work.

I would tread carefully. This is just . . . odd.

[nancy sv]

There are obviously a lot of emotions involved in this one for sure! Although she is positive it's in the public domain, I am not sure exactly about the wording on either her letter to the copyright office or their response back - if she just asked a generic question and they responded back with a generic answer, it's possible she read into it what she wants to.

However, from the research I did, 1952 was in the window where copyrights needed to be renewed after 28 years and, if they are not, they enter into the public domain. That fits with her story sorta. If the ghost writer gifted the copyright after 20 years, her dad then had 8 years (the story I heard was months) in order to renew it. If he didn't then it would have gone into the public domain.

If my husband agrees to help her with the project, he'll need to read the letters and make sure - but I do think it makes sense that it could be public domain.

[benbradley]

Originally Posted by nancy sv

Thanks so much! I love the idea of her adding a special chapter to the book to make it her own. Would it then have a different ISBN number?

Yes. Even if it has the same content as the other newly published version, it will have a different ISBN. The ISBN identifies both the edition and the publisher - and even if both books have the same publisher, they are different editions. Even a book going from hardback to paperback changes the edition and generates a new ISBN.

Originally Posted by nancy sv

How long does the copyright last? I really don't know much about the book, but she said it's public domain. For sure she'll need to make sure before she does anything.

I recall that the Second Edition of the "Alcoholics Anonymous" Big Book, published 1955, is in the public domain within the US because someone at the AA office forgot to renew the copyright at some point. I've seen other publishers printing the first 164 pages (which is the "core program" of AA, and hasn't been changed in four editions though current printings, except for footnotes citing the numbers of meetings and members). But this is what I learned in the early 1990's. There was the "Sony Bono" copyright law (or derisively, the "Mickey Mouse" law) passed in 1998:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrig..._Extension_Act
Everything I've read about it says that anything published since 1928 (the first public appearance of Mickey Mouse) is under copyright, but a quick glance at the the article doesn't say one way or the other about a lapsed copyright renewal.

Reading everything on http://copyright.gov "should" clear this up (and likely make you more of an expert on copyright law than the employee who responded). If not, you may have to talk to a copyright lawyer.

Originally Posted by Medievalist

That's just . . . . odd. That isn't how it works; publishers or rights holders can register copyright, but the LOC, the copyright office for the U.S. has no mechanism to track rights holders. They track registrations; that's it.

Moreover, there is something she can do if it is in public domain; she can produce a new and substantially different edition of the book by adding, updating and enhancing it, and register copyright on the new work.

I would tread carefully. This is just . . . odd.

Presuming the 1952 book is in the public domain, (it is my understanding that) she can publish something identical to the original 1952 book - as long as she uses that book as the source, and not the other guy's more recently published book.

The publisher Dover reprints many public domain books, and many of these are also in the Project Gutenberg archives at http://gutenberg.org. The people who put the books on Gutenberg have to use copies of the original book, as Dover has copyright on its editions. I'm not sure exactly how that works or why, but that's the way it is. Apparently it's something like a photograph. The Mona Lisa painting's image is in the public domain, but you can't just use someone else's photograph of it without permission, as they have copyright on their photograph.

[thothguard51]

I wonder about the pictures used. They did not belong to the ghost writer so the son may not have the neccessary rights to reuse them...

[nancy sv]

She was saying today that she's going to make a trip out to Wisconsin (from Idaho) to see the son and try to get her dad's photos back. I assume that, if should can get the actual photos, that she could scan them and use them?

[BigWords]

Do you know who took the photographs? If it was a professional photographer, you need to check if they are still in business.

[benbradley]

Originally Posted by nancy sv

She was saying today that she's going to make a trip out to Wisconsin (from Idaho) to see the son and try to get her dad's photos back. I assume that, if should can get the actual photos, that she could scan them and use them?

Possession of the photos doesn't imply the legal ability to publish them, but if they're part of her father's estate and the estate goes to her, that should be enough.

IANAL, you're asking on the Internet, bla bla bla...

[nancy sv]

Thanks! I brought up the idea today of using different photos and, at first, she said no way. But then she started saying, "Hmmm.... that might be a possibility."

I don't even know what the story is about so don't know if the original photos are essential.

Anyway, this whole thing is interesting to think about. I never, ever thought about the idea of my kids wanting my books, so now I'm determined to set things up right so they don't go through this!

[Terie]

I strongly suggest that your friend consult an IP specialist attorney. Even if the text of the book is in the public domain, the photos might not be. And if the copyright of the photos belongs to your friend (as heir of the rightsholder), the ghostwriter's son might be using them illegally.

There are a bazillion ifs in this entire scenario, and your friend can't be sure of her rights and the ghost's son's rights until she consults an attorney who specialises in intellectual property rights.

She really Really REALLY needs to do this.