Is copying a good writing exercise?

Anahid21 · Jun 12, 2012

Today, my writing buddy and I were chatting about the eternally bamboozling topic of "How to be a better writer," when she suggested something new. She said a good way to up your writing skills was to grab a book from your favorite author and type what they have written EXACTLY. At first I thought it was dumb before I remembered I learned drawing as a toddler much the same way, by tracing. Maybe similar mechanics apply. She certainly believed that it would ingrain some sort of "muscle memory" into your brain that would make you write like your favorite writer once you finish copying the entire book. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

And I hope I posted this in the correct section since we're talking about novels.

Todd Young · Jun 12, 2012

I've tried this before - typing out passages of my favorite novels. I think it can help to improve your writing, but you have to focus on what it is that you're typing, and not on the typing itself.

It's also very time-consuming. I had an idea, at one stage, that I would type out an entire Patricia Highsmith novel. I soon gave that up.

Now, I dog-ear pages of books I'm reading when I see a particular bit of technique that I think is effective. I have a section in my Scrivener template entitled "Things to Try," and I use it to record various techniques there, and then, when I'm working on something, I glance at these from time to time and try to incorporate them into my writing.

I think that's the only way you're going to pick up a technique, if you actually get into the habit of using it.

My latest is from an Elmore Leonard novel, where he uses "until" to start a sentence.

They drove through the dusk in silence.
Until Richie said, “Well, I don’t see …

Mharvey · Jun 12, 2012

It can't hurt, but just be aware of its limitations: while you may improve your vocabulary and your basic dialogue/sentence structure, this isn't going to do a thing for developing a unique, narrative voice, which is probably 45% of your writing style. It will also do nothing to help you construct a plot, compelling characters or teach you pacing, which probably combine for another 45% of your writing style.

To use your muscle memory metaphor, if your idea is to develop your core strength as a writer, copying is probably the equivalent of spending 20 seconds stretching your quads and calling it a day.

Kerosene · Jun 12, 2012

I would say: No.

It almost sounds like just practice typing.

I would tell you to emulate your favorite author's writing style, study what you wrote and practice the parts you liked best to add to your own writing style.

But I can't see how copying, word for word, a passage to improve your own writing. Why don't you just read it and break it apart to understand it?

SomethingOrOther · Jun 12, 2012

Mharvey said:
It can't hurt, but just be aware of its limitations: while you may improve your vocabulary and your basic dialogue/sentence structure, this isn't going to do a thing for developing a unique, narrative voice, which is probably 45% of your writing style. It will also do nothing to help you construct a plot, compelling characters or teach you pacing, which probably combine for another 45% of your writing style.

It has helped me with most of those things, so I guess it varies from person to person. (I don't copy long passages. I focus on smaller units.)

It's mostly an adjunct to analysis--it helps me notice subtle things a lot more efficiently. The "muscle memory" part is not the way I approach it.

Old Hack · Jun 12, 2012

I'd have thought reading the books would be a more effective way of absorbing the writers' techniques, but I do have RSI and try to avoid typing as much as I can.

Mr Flibble · Jun 12, 2012

I read a multi pubbed author suggesting this once (Who? Can't recall. Lawrence Block?...???)

IIRC he suggested it as a good way around writer's block - you copy-type, until you find you have a different sentence/idea/whathaveyou to insert instead, or you start editing as you go. So that would negate the style difference.

Not tried it, but I could see how that might work. Not sure about using it to make your own writing better (analysis works for me) but perhaps that depends on what type of learner you are?

Anahid21 · Jun 12, 2012

I tried a little bit this afternoon and I can see the benefits. When I read a book I get sucked into the plot, characters and the story. When I type it I pay attention to the writing. I'm not planning on typing a whole book, but excerpts should be fine.

As for it not helping much with plot and character construction, I have those parts covered by other resources/exercises. I meant this only as a writing exercise. (Though I do appreciate suggestions on improving pacing.)

Kerosene · Jun 13, 2012

Anahid21 said:
When I type it I pay attention to the writing. I'm not planning on typing a whole book, but excerpts should be fine.

Some people (myself included) read like writers. We break up everything to actually analyze and then move onto characters, story and such.

I've never been much of a reader, so I picked this up quick when I started writing. It's just easy for me to understand methods and usage in writing.

But I've also seen it's hard for a "reader" to practice this.
I wouldn't know how to change this, (maybe analyze as you go?) because I never switched over. But it's worth a try.

Anahid21 · Jun 13, 2012

WillSauger said:
I wouldn't know how to change this, (maybe analyze as you go?) because I never switched over. But it's worth a try.

Or maybe...I don't know...type it?

When I read I want to relax and enjoy the story. The moment I decide to "analyze" I'd have to break out the Fat Lil' notebook and write stuff down. I used to write snippets. This is more time consuming but if there's any merit to the "muscle memory" theory I'm willing to give it a try.

gothicangel · Jun 13, 2012

WillSauger said:
Some people (myself included) read like writers. We break up everything to actually analyze and then move onto characters, story and such.

I have an English degree, so when I read, I read critically as well as analytically. It's probably why I don't have much patience with poor writing.

My first novel attempts where crime fiction, which was a very pared down David Peace style of writing. Then I decided I wanted to have a go at writing an historical and knew that style wouldn't work. I'm deeply in love with Rosemary Sutcliff's rich, highly textured style. So, yes to begin with I copied her style, analysed her dialogue. I did so with other writers who I admired like Robyn Young and Manda Scott. I then put the books down, and wrote something original.

The key is to know the line between copying and plagiarism.

Kerosene · Jun 13, 2012

gothicangel said:
It's probably why I don't have much patience with poor writing.

Same here. I'll place 20 books down before I find one I can accept, mostly because of my picky attitude toward the writing of the book.

Mr Mitchell · Jun 13, 2012

It's a no from me and I don't like copying my favourite authors, but I like to learn from them by studying how they write.

Lady Ice · Jun 13, 2012

I think it could be useful, as it forces you to think about how writers compose a sentence.

shaldna · Jun 13, 2012

Anahid21 said:
Today, my writing buddy and I were chatting about the eternally bamboozling topic of "How to be a better writer," when she suggested something new. She said a good way to up your writing skills was to grab a book from your favorite author and type what they have written EXACTLY. At first I thought it was dumb before I remembered I learned drawing as a toddler much the same way, by tracing. Maybe similar mechanics apply. She certainly believed that it would ingrain some sort of "muscle memory" into your brain that would make you write like your favorite writer once you finish copying the entire book. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

I really recommend it as a learning tool. But don't just do it with good writing that you like, do it with bad writing too.

You'll find that as you are copying the words you are thinking about them, you can really feel what works and what doesn't, and the very act of writing something that goes against your own writing style can make you look at how you write, and how others write, in a whole new way.

IDGS · Jun 13, 2012

I personally don't think it would - you learn by doing, not by copying.

However, if others see some merit in it - give it a shot. All you've got to lose is a bit of time if it doesn't work out.

jeffo20 · Jun 13, 2012

I'll do it from time to time, not so much as a learning exercise, but because I've found a passage that just blows me away.

quicklime · Jun 13, 2012

clearly it worked for others, but I'm in the "read the work of others, and if you're gonna sit and type, type your own" camp.

jaksen · Jun 13, 2012

Writing isn't like learning to ride a bike, or swim, or play tennis where practice-practice-practice of a skill or technique eventually produces results.

So no, this sounds like a silly and nonproductive idea. Ask some published writers. Ask some very successful writers.

Waste of time.

I_love_coffee · Jun 13, 2012

i don't know how much out and out copying would help.

However, i have sat down and deconstructed about 4 different books that i loved. I did a scene by scene summary of each book trying to get ideas on "how it's done". plotting, pacing, structure, etc. I found it helpful to write it all out, and look over it, rather than just read with a critical eye.....

stray · Jun 13, 2012

A technique that I've used in the past is to come up with a short story idea and then write five versions of the story in the style of five different authors I admire. Just for folly, really. A kind of warm-up exercise.

jaksen · Jun 13, 2012

stray said:
A technique that I've used in the past is to come up with a short story idea and then write five versions of the story in the style of five different authors I admire. Just for folly, really. A kind of warm-up exercise.

Joyce Carol Oates did a similar thing in one of her short story anthologies - writing in the style of four or five famous authors - but the stories were all different. She did a fabulous job of it, too, so this sort of exercise is not only productive, but creative, too.

And you can possibly sell the stories if you want.

Buffysquirrel · Jun 13, 2012

jaksen said:
Writing isn't like learning to ride a bike, or swim, or play tennis where practice-practice-practice of a skill or technique eventually produces results.

Erm, yes it is. What you need to practise however is your own writing, not someone else's.

Archerbird · Jun 13, 2012

I've gotten this advice before, and I've found several places where it's recommended. The essence is pretty much this:

shaldna said:
You'll find that as you are copying the words you are thinking about them, you can really feel what works and what doesn't, and the very act of writing something that goes against your own writing style can make you look at how you write, and how others write, in a whole new way.

So it's not meant as typing for typing's sake, you have to pay attention to what you're copying.

I suppose it must be the same as taking notes while you read. :Shrug:

Eta; I knew I'd read about this somewhere in the Uncle Jim's threads.

My next suggestion is also going to be work: Take your favorite novel.

Now, retype the first chapter. Do this with your writer's eye, not your reader's eye. Think about the lengths of the sentences, the lengths of the paragraphs, the sounds of the words. Think about the order of the scenes. Notice the dialog. How are the dialog tags rendered? Where is the point of view?

The point of this exercise is this: Have you ever gone to an art museum and seen the art students sitting there with their easels and oils, copying the great masters? The point isn't to turn them into plagairists, or to make them expert forgers. The point is to get the feeling into their hands and arms of how to make the brush strokes that create a particular illusion on canvas. Writing is no less a physical skill than painting. The words are your paints, the sentences your brush strokes. Following a master, asking yourself, always, why. Why did he or she choose this word rather than another? Why was this scene from this particular point of view? Why did the scene end there?

Writing is an art. Everything is there because the artist (that's you!) chose to put it there. The surface meaning, the deeper themes, those are your choice.

I can hear you saying, "Yeah, right, Uncle Jim. You say 'Retype a chapter,' but I bet you never did that."

Wrong-o, my friends. I did just that (I did more -- I retyped entire books). You can find some of them here, the ones that I still had on disk to convert to HTML and which were in public domain.

At the very worst your typing skills will improve, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Assignments: Get a copy of Logical Chess Move By Move, and work through the problems. Get a novel that you personally really admire, and retype the first chapter.

Here's the link if anyone is interested, it's a little below the middle of the post.

Archerbird · Jun 13, 2012

jaksen said:
Writing isn't like learning to ride a bike, or swim, or play tennis where practice-practice-practice of a skill or technique eventually produces results.

I wonder what 70% of the members are doing here then...

Is copying a good writing exercise?

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