Kate? Really?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bookewyrme

Imagined half of it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
4,859
Reaction score
408
Location
Home Sweet Home
Website
bookewyrme.straydreamers.com
Kate makes me think of The Taming of the Shrew.
I can't believe only one other person has this association with the name Kate! It's also the only literary association I have. I've probably read other books with 'Kate' characters, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I think I may have named a character from a short story Kate once.

Speaking of repetitive names, I just finished reading a Georgette Heyer novel where all the names were Henry, Richard, Edward, Thomas, and Joan. In fairness, it was her unfinished historical novel about King Henry V's younger brother, so she didn't get to pick names. But it was still confusing as hell to try and read! :tongue

I use unusual names quite often in some of my work, but there's nothing much I can do about it. Occupational hazard of my current genre (Egyptian Historical Fiction). I do think it sounds a bit pretentious if every name is unusual AND unpronounceable in a book, without any particular reason (e.g. set in a particular time period/culture). But unpronounceable names have their place too, often to denote specific cultures or "otherness" or something similar.
 

ccarver30

Nicole Castro
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,606
Reaction score
857
Location
Wherever the MMC is
Website
www.amazon.com
^ Making me think of this, from the Rifftrax of Breaking Dawn 1:

Bella: ...and I was thinking, "Renesmee"

Mike Nelson: And then you immediately, without a second's thought, threw that in the trash can and vowed never to speak it again, right?

OMG I love you. <3 I am an MST3ker for life.
 

ccarver30

Nicole Castro
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,606
Reaction score
857
Location
Wherever the MMC is
Website
www.amazon.com
hah! I know what Ccarver is talking about. Several years ago there were stories and memes about Kate being the most overused heroine name in fiction, especially in romance novels. Seemed like you couldn't open a romance novel without seeing a Kate.

You seem to be the only one. lol *high five*

Again, as I said in the original post- I DO NOT HATE THE NAME KATE, QUITE THE OPPOSITE.
But that is kind of the point- too many authors saying- "Oh, that's a great name! Here ya go, main female character!"
NOTHING IS "WRONG" WITH THE NAME KATE. :)
It just may be overused. I find it interesting how many people said that they have a character named Kate- kind of proving my point. :tongue

Also, I am not saying that you should make up some crazy-ass name just to sound original. Sometimes names you cannot pronounce are annoying and the reader dismisses the originality of it.

I write regency romance for the most part and even my original character's name was Catherine. I decided that it did not fit her though after I changed a major plot point.

I do not auto-associate the name Kate to anyone in real life, per se.

p.s. I hated Lost too. My ex would watch it and when I would catch a glance I would be appalled at the plot they were trying to swing. (An abominable snowman on an island; really? Oh they don't age? Hmm, ok...) Don't even try to argue this point, I will not listen. EVER.
They called it Lost because that is what the watchers were every week upon seeing an episode.
 
Last edited:

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
p.s. I hated Lost too. My ex would watch it and when I would catch a glance I would be appalled at the plot they were trying to swing. (An abominable snowman on an island; really? Oh they don't age? Hmm, ok...) Don't even try to argue this point, I will not listen. EVER.
They called it Lost because that is what the watchers were every week upon seeing an episode.

Well, no. Regular viewers never got lost, and if you had watched you would know there were very good reasons for all the weird things on the island.
 

TheRajinski

Probationary Agent
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
73
Reaction score
13
Location
Lake County, Florida
Characters grow into their names. It's funny because people seem to put an inordinate amount of thought into coming up with perfect names. I don't really get it.

Whether it's Phineas or Shawn or Keegan or Tony... characters don't become who they are because of the name you give them, unless it's tied to something cultural. They become "themselves" because of the personality and experiences you give them.

My newest story has a very unassuming character named Phineas. It's an unusual name, and I've injected that aspect into the story. He doesn't "look" like a Phineas. What does a Phineas look like anyway?

My friend writes romance novels, and she needed a name for a stereotypical super hot dude. At first she thought Walter... but then she concluded that Walter was just not the name for a stud-like type. She chose Jack instead.

Of course I was totally for the Walter idea. I thought it was great. Fresh.

Anyway, I'm kind of on a crazy tangent here, but I don't see anything wrong with Kate. It's common, sure, but realistic. People are named Kate. And that's that.
 

DreamWeaver

Shakespearean Fool
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
403
The name's that been bugging me recently is Jane. Whenever I read a book with an MC named Jane, she's always a "plain jane"....
Another reason to love "Pride and Prejudice." Jane is the beautiful sister (though not the MC...).
 

Pinguicha

Has the cutest cat in the world!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
187
Reaction score
12
Location
Lisbon
Website
pinguicha.wordpress.com
Completely unrelated and off-topic... But when I read this thread's title, I immediately thought of the Linux text editor of the same name.

I need to get my geek under control...
 

eyeblink

Barbara says hi
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
6,391
Reaction score
1,016
Location
Aldershot, UK
One trap writers of YA and MG especially can fall into is to forget that names that were popular when you were at school may not be popular any more.

Take Chloe, for example. I don't think I ever met a Chloe when I was young - the only one I remember was Chloe Ashcroft, the presenter of the old BBC programme for pre-school children Play School. But it's been in the top ten most popular girls' names in the UK for at least the last decade, so there should be a lot of Chloes turning up in contemporary MG now and in YA in a few years.

Other names are date-limited. You won't find a Kayleigh born before 1985, when the Marillion song was a hit. (The woman the song was named after was called Kay Lee, and the spelling was changed for the song title.) But that name became popular for a few years. Similarly, you won't find many Kylies who aren't Australian born before the mid 80s, which is when Ms Minogue first became famous.

But given that, you can justify most names. I have a WIP idea involving a character called Claudette. Not Claudia, Claudette. The way I justify it is that she was the only child of parents in their forties (a late accident), which makes them at least old enough to have been Roy Orbison fans in his Sixties heyday.

But yes there are perennial names that Kate and its variants, and there will be quite a few of them around. (Probably quite a few newborn ones, named after Kate Middleton.) I don't see it being overused.
 

fireluxlou

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,089
Reaction score
283
I heard Kate Middleton hates to be called Kate and that her family and friends call her Catherine and it's only the press who call her Kate.
 

heyjude

Making my own sunshine
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
19,740
Reaction score
6,192
Location
Gulf coast of FL
We did go through a time when it seemed like every female character was named Kate or some variation, but I still love the name.

And LOST was an incredible, wonderful show. I even loved that Kate. :)
 

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
7,485
Reaction score
899
Location
Belfast
Well, no. Regular viewers never got lost, and if you had watched you would know there were very good reasons for all the weird things on the island.

I agree. It's the sort of series where you can't miss an episode because nothing that follows will make sense. I miss an episode in the middle of the last season because I was in hospital. I couldn't watch the rest of the season because I couldn't face spending another 14 episodes asking 'what's this about' 'who is he' or 'what's going on?' I waited until it came out on DVD and then caught up with it.


One trap writers of YA and MG especially can fall into is to forget that names that were popular when you were at school may not be popular any more.

Take Chloe, for example. I don't think I ever met a Chloe when I was young - the only one I remember was Chloe Ashcroft, the presenter of the old BBC programme for pre-school children Play School. But it's been in the top ten most popular girls' names in the UK for at least the last decade, so there should be a lot of Chloes turning up in contemporary MG now and in YA in a few years.

Oh god, yes!

I'm nearly 30 and when I was at school EVERYONE seemed to be called Claire or Sarah or Emma - I had three Claires and two Sarahs in my class alone. Christopher, Jonathon and Simon were really common in my age group too.

But the early 80's also saw a rise in unusual names too - I had an Alexis and a Simone in my class at school, several Naomis (a name that's pretty common now, but was unusual then) and a Phoebe. There were a couple of Debbies, a lot of Cathys.

My nieces - who are all in their mid teens - have a lot of Rachels, Rebeccas and Hannahs as friends.


Other names are date-limited. You won't find a Kayleigh born before 1985, when the Marillion song was a hit. (The woman the song was named after was called Kay Lee, and the spelling was changed for the song title.) But that name became popular for a few years. Similarly, you won't find many Kylies who aren't Australian born before the mid 80s, which is when Ms Minogue first became famous.

This. My daughter is 5 and I LOVE hearing the names of some of the kids in her school - the school is a small church school, and the majority of the kids there come from middle class households with stay at home older mums. They have great names - Orion, Bing, LA. There are also lots of old fashioned names which seem to have become popular again - Ruby, Iris, Violet etc.

But given that, you can justify most names. I have a WIP idea involving a character called Claudette. Not Claudia, Claudette. The way I justify it is that she was the only child of parents in their forties (a late accident), which makes them at least old enough to have been Roy Orbison fans in his Sixties heyday.

Or movie buffs - every time I hear Claudette I think of Claudette Colbert.

I know a Georgette too.

Something else to note when looking at names is the ethnic mix at the time. I mean, in Belfast we've always had a really huge Chinese community and there are a lot of kids given local names, so you get 'Thomas Wu' and 'Lucy Ng' and 'Walter Wong' - these sort of naming conventions were really common when I was a kid.

Likewise, now there is a big Eastern European and Indian community, so there are a lot of kids with names like Majia, Kornelijia etc. My cousin is married to a Pakistani man and they were going to call their daughter Sultana until they realised that it means something different here than it does in Pakistan.

I reckon in the next 15 years there are going to be a lot of kids with more exotic names as a result.
 

Flicka

Dull Old Person
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
147
Location
Far North
Website
www.theragsoftime.com
I just named a character Katherine in complete defiance of this thread. She's not called Kate though, but still. And her last name is 'Smith'. I get extra points for that, right?

I also have a Margaret, a Maurice and a Huntly. And a Jack, but I don't think his first name is ever mentioned. :Shrug:
 

zahra

Was Zahra; lost profile - REBORN!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
2,037
Reaction score
426
Location
London
I just named a character Katherine in complete defiance of this thread. She's not called Kate though, but still. And her last name is 'Smith'. I get extra points for that, right?

I also have a Margaret, a Maurice and a Huntly. And a Jack, but I don't think his first name is ever mentioned. :Shrug:
Jack was always the 'everyman' name, in Britain at least. Thus you had 'Jack the Ripper', 'every man Jack', 'Jolly Jack Tar' , 'Jack of all trades', 'all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy', etc. That's why naming a character Jack seems a bit lazy. On the other hand, Jack as a real name in Britain became wildly popular within the last 10 to 20 years, so it's not realistic to 'outlaw' it.

If I'm naming a non-lead character, I'll adhere to what would be popular around their birth, but my leads tend to be slightly off-centre: Lennie (f), Clea, Dil, Liv, but not outlandish. I don't want readers to be reminded of the girl they went to school with or work next to, but neither do I want them to be distracted by the name.
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
2,856
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
Wanna know what names were popular in 1940? Yes, you can google it, or experience it for yourself by working on the US 1940 census.



.


The best tool for finding out what names were popular when is the Baby Name Wizard. It's brilliannt. Through it I was able to find out that it's fine for me to spell my 1908 Joanna character Johanna.

It's a funny thing about name popularity. I remember when my best friend named her daughter "Emma" in 1973. It was a name only ancient aunties were called in that day and age -- I thought it was old and musty.
But guess what. 20 years later, and Emma was the number one most popular girl's name in the USA. Put Emma into the wizard -- it's pretty amazing how it went out and came right back in. Same with Kate. My name was nothing, peaked in the 1940's, and disappeared again
 

kayleamay

I'm on the phone.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
15,143
Reaction score
4,250
Location
Vantucky, WA
Other names are date-limited. You won't find a Kayleigh born before 1985, when the Marillion song was a hit. (The woman the song was named after was called Kay Lee, and the spelling was changed for the song title.) But that name became popular for a few years. Similarly, you won't find many Kylies who aren't Australian born before the mid 80s, which is when Ms Minogue first became famous.

*cough*

Kaylea here, born in 1972. Pronunciation: Kay Lee. Marillion totally stole my name.
 

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
9,767
Reaction score
3,938
Location
you martyr and shine.
I will totally cop to the Kate hating. There is nothing wrong with the name, per se. It's actually sort of too pefect: sporty yet feminine yet classic yet thoroughly modern. And because of that, it gets used again and again in popular fiction.

So much so, that when I see the MC is named Kate (or Katie or K8 or Cat or Katnis or Catherine or Caitlyn) the bar for whether I'll continue reading shoots up much higher. Why? I figure if the author can only come up with such a cliched MC name she's going to have to work 10 times as hard to prove she has an original thought in her head.

Harsh? Yes. But it's also just my opinion, so please don't go changing your beloved Kates on my say so.

Off the top of my head, recent(ish) popular books with Kate MCs:

The Hunger Games by Susanne Collins (Katniss Everdeen)
I Don't Know How She Does It by Allison Pearson (Kate Reddy, who signs her emails K8 *hork*)
How To Be Good by Nick Hornby (Katie Carr)

Agent Kristin Nelson weighed in on Kates back in 2006; so the overuse of Kate has been going on for a half-dozen years now. From her blog, Pub Rants:

Contemporary stories. There have been a lot of KATEs and KATIEs as of late. Once again, nothing wrong with that name but it might be a little harder for your heroine to stand out when I’m reading my pile.

Historical/Regency romances. Time to avoid any derivative of Devil for your rakish hero. I’ve seen it all. Devlin etc.

I’m sure other names will come up and I’ll keep you posted.

Now, creating interesting, varied, or cool character names won’t necessarily open the door. Only good writing will do that. It’s just another facet of the whole package that you need to keep in mind because trust me, it’s on our mind if Angie and I have done 50 partials during the day and have had at least 5 or 6 manuscripts with the name Kate or Katie as the heroine and at least one Rhiannon (and that’s the third one this week).

So, there you go. If you love the name and it's perfect for your character, use it. But do so knowing it's been done and done and done before.
 

aruna

On a wing and a prayer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
2,856
Location
A Small Town in Germany
Website
www.sharonmaas.co.uk
Ha! There's a novel called Advances by Anita Burgh. I read it long ago, before I was published.
This is the blurb:
Aspiring novelist Kate Howard - shackled to an unfeeling husband, for years she's sacrificed everything for her family. She knows she wants to write, but will anyone give her the chance? Dedicated editor Gloria Catchpole - once she could have had the pick of every powerful man in publishing. Right now work is the only challenge she can handle. Literary agent Joy Trenchard - devastated when her violent husband kidnaps their daughter. The only way she knows how to fight back is to pull off the deal of the decade. They are all ready to make advances - but how far will they go?
Somewhere within the book the MC goes to a publishing party and everyone keeps telling her "Kate Howard -- what a wonderful name for an author!" DEven though it was so long ago, I remember that; I remember wondering what exactly made a wonderful author name.
 

ccarver30

Nicole Castro
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,606
Reaction score
857
Location
Wherever the MMC is
Website
www.amazon.com
I will totally cop to the Kate hating. There is nothing wrong with the name, per se. It's actually sort of too pefect: sporty yet feminine yet classic yet thoroughly modern. And because of that, it gets used again and again in popular fiction.

So much so, that when I see the MC is named Kate (or Katie or K8 or Cat or Katnis or Catherine or Caitlyn) the bar for whether I'll continue reading shoots up much higher. Why? I figure if the author can only come up with such a cliched MC name she's going to have to work 10 times as hard to prove she has an original thought in her head.

Harsh? Yes. But it's also just my opinion, so please don't go changing your beloved Kates on my say so.

Off the top of my head, recent(ish) popular books with Kate MCs:

The Hunger Games by Susanne Collins (Katniss Everdeen)
I Don't Know How She Does It by Allison Pearson (Kate Reddy, who signs her emails K8 *hork*)
How To Be Good by Nick Hornby (Katie Carr)

Agent Kristin Nelson weighed in on Kates back in 2006; so the overuse of Kate has been going on for a half-dozen years now. From her blog, Pub Rants:



So, there you go. If you love the name and it's perfect for your character, use it. But do so knowing it's been done and done and done before.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to! <3
 
Status
Not open for further replies.