50 Shades of Grey trilogy goes from fan fiction to Random House

[Mr Flibble]

Originally Posted by bearilou

Here it is!

Not sure you can judge by what, one two sentences? Is the story good? Are the characters well realised? Impossible to tell from that very small sample


And I read because it gives me pleasure. If I learn stuff too, bonus!

[RJLeahy]

Originally Posted by Alitriona

Entertainment. For me, it's escapism.

Maybe I was unclear. I wasn't trying to put this (50sog) in the same catagory as the stuff he was reading, just trying to point out that just reading is not a sign of enlightenment.

[SomethingOrOther]

Originally Posted by Phaeal

Yeah. But getting cynical helps a lot with getting over stillborn books. Dead kittens? No. Someone who doesn't get sad about dead kittens has gone beyond cynicism into inhumanity.

Mrowr.

My imaginary talking kitten agreed and hi-fived your avatar, then got a bit sad.

***

Hmm, I'm not sure how this excerpting-for-articles thing works, but part of me doubts this is a completely contiguous sample:

"He wasn't breathing. The crown of his head was a sticky mass of blood[.]" [...] "My dad had been sitting at his desk, plugged into his music, and someone had crept up behind him and hit him over the head, and kept hitting him until he died. His eyes were open and his glasses had fallen off, and there was blood coming from his mouth and clotting in his beard, and the house was empty and silent."

So, it starts with two sentences of immediate description in a dramatic and macabre moment. Just two details, then, boom!, cool-headed theorizing—a fairly specific theory, too (that, or awkward paralepsis). Maybe the first sentences of the excerpt are just the tail-end of a cluster of sentences detailing the discovery of the body, or maybe there's something in between.

[Channy]

I don't know, but the number of 'ands' in that paragraph are alarming. Not to mention that it's very... simplistic. It's a very telling story, I suppose.

ETA: I went and read some of the reviews about the books on Amazon, and found it to be more of an enjoyable experience than the actual books were. It's astonishing how many people are... well, misguided into saying that the writing is so well written, the characters are engaging, it's a TRUE love story... but this one takes the cake:

50 shades of grey is one of my favourite books. The way she wrote was amazing and fresh plus not really hard core which i liked. I myself am not very into erotica but it was overall well written and a different perspective because of the fact that not all people who partake in this are sluts or emotionally damaged. my only wish was that the author would provide more background of anatasia.

But the majority of them are? It's a one off different perspective of a naive girl who's practically kept in submission because she doesn't want to lose him.. but God forbid she's a slut, or, and I find it hard to comprehend how she isn't a shining example of, an emotionally damaged girl.

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by IdiotsRUs

Not sure you can judge by what, one two sentences? Is the story good? Are the characters well realised? Impossible to tell from that very small sample


And I read because it gives me pleasure. If I learn stuff too, bonus!

Probably not. But judging from the sentence construction I can tell the writing may be a little tedious for my tastes.

Don't we judge what we read based on a brief snippet before we put the book back on the shelf?

Will I be reading it when it comes out? Probably not, I don't read YA often. But after that small snippet and the brief description of what it's about, I think it's a sure bet I won't be reading it.

[Mr Flibble]

Originally Posted by bearilou

Don't we judge what we read based on a brief snippet before we put the book back on the shelf?

True enough, though for me, that's usually the first couple of sentences (not sure these were?). Once/if I'm into the story, I get less picky about individual sentences unless they are real clunkers, or happen very often - or unless I'm hating it in which case I look for more things to hate. The more I enjoy the story, the more I'm not looking to nitpick. Also, if he's just signed, it's not been edited yet....

[JSSchley]

I read that way, too (never would've gotten through The Hunger Games otherwise), but if you're excerpting your novel for the news, wouldn't you try to pick what you believed to be the most engaging example of your writing?

And if this is that, well...no thank you.

Edit to add (now that I'm not on my phone): I don't take issue, however, with what appears to be pedestrian writing landing a deal for what appears to be in large part fame by association. Publishers buy what they think will sell; some of it is stellar and some of it less so. It's business.

I likely won't read this, and I don't see myself hand selling or recommending it, but I don't take issue with it being published.

[LAgrunion]

I understand that E.L. James's husband is a screenwriter and that he read FSOG when she was writing it. Her beta reader essentially.

Though I still think James's writing is fine, I admit that some editing to rid of the repetitions (e.g. oh my) would've made the novel better. Thus, I'm a little surprised that he (as a writer) didn't clean up the repetitions for her. It would've been an easy thing to do, and the result would've produced a smoother read.

But I guess it's possible that he did offer suggestions and that she just didn't take them.

On the other hand, she's selling millions so query whether further editing would've affected the bottom line.

[Silver-Midnight]

I know we mentioned Bared to You earlier in this thread. However, I thought that it would be nice to mention that it made the BestSellers list for both NYT and USAToday.

New York Times Bestseller's List (NOTE: It did make it on many of other NYT Bestsellers List sections but I felt this one was the best to post.)

USAToday--Look at #9

Anyway, just wanted to mention that.

[nonasuch]

So I'm a little curious. For those of you who read fanfiction, what story would you pick for mainstream success over 50 Shades? Personally, I've read plenty of amazing novel-length fanfic, some of which would work quite well with the serial numbers filed off.

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by nonasuch

So I'm a little curious. For those of you who read fanfiction, what story would you pick for mainstream success over 50 Shades? Personally, I've read plenty of amazing novel-length fanfic, some of which would work quite well with the serial numbers filed off.

To be quite honest, I wouldn't. I'm one of those, apparently, old-school fans who feels like fanfiction should stay fanfiction and the writer, if wishing to branch off into writing original fiction, should start afresh and not scrub serial numbers off their fanfic, no matter how brilliantly its written.

[nonasuch]

Originally Posted by bearilou

To be quite honest, I wouldn't. I'm one of those, apparently, old-school fans who feels like fanfiction should stay fanfiction and the writer, if wishing to branch off into writing original fiction, should start afresh and not scrub serial numbers off their fanfic, no matter how brilliantly its written.

That's fair. It's just that there are so many fanfic authors I'd rather see get the recognition and sales! It's a crying shame their work isn't as popular as 50 Shades of Suck.

[LAgrunion]

Originally Posted by bearilou

To be quite honest, I wouldn't. I'm one of those, apparently, old-school fans who feels like fanfiction should stay fanfiction and the writer, if wishing to branch off into writing original fiction, should start afresh and not scrub serial numbers off their fanfic, no matter how brilliantly its written.

I can see why people would be put off by fan fiction that closely resembles the original.

I've read both Twilight #1 and FSOG #1. My impression is that they didn't resemble each other very much. One is about vampires, the other is heavily about the sexual relationship. If I hadn't learned from the media that FSOG was fanfiction, I wouldn't even have thought of the relationship.

When I google similarities between the two books, I haven't been bothered by the similarities that people point out. They were not any more extensive than what you could find between many other original novels.

To me at least, the distance between FSOG and Twilight is far greater than the distance between many works of original fiction. I remember reading original romances and mysteries where I thought to myself, this is really similar to another novel I've read before.

[Cyia]

There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding whenever someone mentions the similarities with 50SoG. It's not the similarities to Twilight that are the "issue." It's the similarities with MotU. For *most* fanfic writers, the idea of profiting on a piece that's been available for free is the antithesis of what fanfic is about.

Fanfiction is a community, and that community comes with certain implied rules. Just like there was an uproar when Lady S. tried to publish her unauthorized sequel to Twilight, a similar ripple came in the wake of 50 Shades.

Of course the major difference is that 50 Shades doesn't actually use the copyrighted / trademarked properties, but the story's following was built on its connection to the original material, and among a portion of those who write in the community, there's not much difference. It's not a matter of legality; it's more someone coloring outside the lines.

[Silver-Midnight]

Wow. Check this out. In a way, I'm kind of not surprised:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012...erotica-titles

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/...ender.html?rss

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by LAgrunion

I can see why people would be put off by fan fiction that closely resembles the original.

Hmm...for me it's more than that. Or it's not just that. There's a rhythm, a cadence, a flavor to fanfiction that stands out distinctly a lot of the time that I don't read in trade published books. A heavy reliance on fanon focus to sell a fandom character in a fanfiction carries over and that 'identifyer' remains. Sometimes I can pick up where they've glossed over certain universe/world details because they'd be known by the fandom fan. Or the way they focus on certain things within the fandom universe.


There was discussion about how EL James' husband was one of her beta readers and since he was a writer, why didn't he pick up on her overuse of 'oh mys' which was prevalent in fandom as being a trademark phrase of Bella. I think what may have happened was that he might have mentioned it and she indicated that it was something Bella would say, and in order for MotU to be 'sold' to the fandom as fanfiction, it needed that kind of connection to make it solidly Twilight in nature.

However, repurposing to original fiction, it stayed in.

There's also my belief that, for lack of a better phrase to co-opt, what happens in fandom, stays in fandom. A long work is written as fanfiction? Leave it there, fandom author, and start your career anew with something completely original.

[onesecondglance]

Originally Posted by nonasuch

Personally, I've read plenty of amazing novel-length fanfic, some of which would work quite well with the serial numbers filed off.

I'm not a fanfiction reader or writer, and this comment confused me.

Surely, if a work that purports to use the characters, settings, and ideas of another parent work can stand alone with different character names copy/pasted in then it isn't a successful piece of fanfic? If you can't recognise the characters no matter the nametag then the author's not done a very good job of writing them.

Maybe I've misunderstood.

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by onesecondglance

I'm not a fanfiction reader or writer, and this comment confused me.

Surely, if a work that purports to use the characters, settings, and ideas of another parent work can stand alone with different character names copy/pasted in then it isn't a successful piece of fanfic? If you can't recognise the characters no matter the nametag then the author's not done a very good job of writing them.

Maybe I've misunderstood.

To some of us who read fanfiction regularly, no, you make perfect sense.

[Silver-Midnight]

Originally Posted by bearilou

Hmm...for me it's more than that. Or it's not just that. There's a rhythm, a cadence, a flavor to fanfiction that stands out distinctly a lot of the time that I don't read in trade published books. A heavy reliance on fanon focus to sell a fandom character in a fanfiction carries over and that 'identifyer' remains. Sometimes I can pick up where they've glossed over certain universe/world details because they'd be known by the fandom fan. Or the way they focus on certain things within the fandom universe.

+1 so much.

[JSSchley]

Originally Posted by Silver-Midnight

+1 so much.

It's funny, actually, because the fanfic writing I've found that most doesn't "feel like fan fiction"--the characters are well-rounded, the pacing is appropriate for a novel of that genre, the writer shows real skill with exposition and dialogue, etc.--are the ones that would be hardest to scrub. Those writers tend to stay close to their source and work on enriching the real characters and world, and if they publish something, it's necessarily something else.

[veinglory]

Originally Posted by bearilou

To some of us who read fanfiction regularly, no, you make perfect sense.

I read fanfiction regularly and know of a number of novels where filing was successfully done. That is, those in the know are aware certain novels started as fanfic. Those who aren't haven't spotted it. It can be done. Filing isn't just changing the names and many fics are AUs to begin with--e.g. 50 Shades.

[heza]

Originally Posted by JSSchley

It's funny, actually, because the fanfic writing I've found that most doesn't "feel like fan fiction"--the characters are well-rounded, the pacing is appropriate for a novel of that genre, the writer shows real skill with exposition and dialogue, etc.--are the ones that would be hardest to scrub. Those writers tend to stay close to their source and work on enriching the real characters and world, and if they publish something, it's necessarily something else.

I think that's true in a lot of cases where fic writers truly try to emulate their source. My fic is not grand by any means, but it's so chock full o'source that scrubbing would be equivalent to writing from scratch. And because the entire conflict, the character development, the relationships, etc. are all so saturated with source, I'm not sure where I'd even begin to untangle it all. If I managed to do it, I think the story would be lesser for it (ETA: because every narrative decision I made was made with source in mind), and I can't stomach taking a story I like and turning it into something not as good but publishable.

Not saying it can't be done--just that I don't think I could successfully do it.

ETA, also: Not that you didn't just say all that two posts above; I'm just supporting.

[Kado]

Thought people might be interested to know:http://www.thebookseller.com/news/fi...ng-20m-us.html

Yup. 31 million English language copies in 4 months. All I can say is....I wish I'd written it.

[Silver-Midnight]

Originally Posted by JSSchley

It's funny, actually, because the fanfic writing I've found that most doesn't "feel like fan fiction"--the characters are well-rounded, the pacing is appropriate for a novel of that genre, the writer shows real skill with exposition and dialogue, etc.--are the ones that would be hardest to scrub. Those writers tend to stay close to their source and work on enriching the real characters and world, and if they publish something, it's necessarily something else.

That's quite possible. I have read some good fan fiction that had me hooked. However, in some cases, I was fully aware I was reading fan fiction, if that makes sense. I don't know.

Originally Posted by veinglory

I read fanfiction regularly and know of a number of novels where filing was successfully done. That is, those in the know are aware certain novels started as fanfic. Those who aren't haven't spotted it. It can be done. Filing isn't just changing the names and many fics are AUs to begin with--e.g. 50 Shades.

That's quite possible. I think it can be done successfully.

[aruna]

Originally Posted by Kado

Yup. 31 million English language copies in 4 months. All I can say is....I wish I'd written it.

I don't. Not for all the tea in China!