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Old 11-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #76
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Hate when that happens.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glutton View Post
So is there an assumption that all people who don't value political correctness are of a particular race, gender, etc?
Yea it's usually white men who have the upper hand in society that don't value political correctness. If it's a minority or woman who says sexist or racist stuff I get the feeling they've internalized the sexism, homophobia and racism that we are fed by society. If you're taught self-hatred of your race or sex from birth by society, then you will internalize it regardless.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:56 PM   #78
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... told this story once before. It does not bear repeating, but I'm gonna do so anyway

I needed a picture of a mailman, as a basis for a cartoon I was drawing. So I went to the library and asked the librarian for a book that had a picture of a mailman in it. "The correct term is mailperson," she replied. "But I need a picture of one who's male," I said. She stood there and thought about that for awhile, trying to figure whether I was in the right or wrong, leaving me to look for a book on my own.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ken View Post
... told this story once before. It does not bear repeating, but I'm gonna do so anyway

I needed a picture of a mailman, as a basis for a cartoon I was drawing. So I went to the library and asked the librarian for a book that had a picture of a mailman in it. "The correct term is mailperson," she replied. "But I need a picture of one who's male," I said. She stood there and thought about that for awhile, trying to figure whether I was in the right or wrong, leaving me to look for a book on my own.
And your point is what, Ken? That once upon a time all people who delivered mail were male? That the librarian was female and therefore politically correct? That you were unable to express your wants clearly?

I'm getting so tired of this.

Someone please ban me.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:01 PM   #80
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Not til I get my cookie!
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
And your point is what, Ken? That once upon a time all people who delivered mail were male? That the librarian was female and therefore politically correct? That you were unable to express your wants clearly?

I'm getting so tired of this.

Someone please ban me.
... leaving others to draw their own conclusions.
Not offering up any, myself.
It was just an experience I had that tied in to the topic.
So I figured I'd mention it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by mirandashell View Post
Not til I get my cookie!
... ---> O
Oh what the heck.
With the holidays and all coming up, make it two --> OO
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:09 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ken View Post
... leaving others to draw their own conclusions.
Not offering up any, myself.
It was just an experience I had that tied in to the topic.
So I figured I'd mention it.
Oh come on. Really? What a lot of typing for something that had no conclusions.

Somebody.

Ban me.

Please.

A week would be lovely.

A nice mini-ban. Medi? Mac? Anyone?
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:13 PM   #84
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Quote:
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I don't think you'll find I've said that anywhere. A person who doesn't care if their words offend someone is either lucky enough to have never been on the sharp end of those words, or ignorant enough to assume that because they're thick-skinned, everyone else ought to be.
So the 'privilege' of being thick-skinned? I'd argue that being thin-skinned is as much of a 'choice' as not 'wanting' to be politically correct, just as expressing thin-skinned-ness is as much of a choice as expressing political incorrectness. BTW I am a minority (and poor), and I don't think of myself as inferior... I do, however, view being thin-skinned and easily offended as a form of intolerance.

What set me off was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by leahzero View Post
The fact that you reductively dismiss it as "overly PC zealotry" tells me a lot about your attitude toward women
I found this assumption highly offensive and discriminatory. Also note that I have had more personal attacks thrown my way in this thread than the other way around, as I have been called a 'bigot' and 'stoopid' while the biggest insult I've used is probably... politically correct.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:18 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glutton View Post
No, I'm arguing that you don't have to be PC not to be sexist. You can make racial stereotype jokes without actually being racist (ie. thinking people of that race are in fact inferior).
Racism isn't about thinking people of a particular race are inferior. It's thinking people possess specific traits due to their race (nationality, ethnicity, etc.) There are a lot of racist stereotypes that are not inherently bad things, like Jews being good with money, or Asian people being good at math.

What makes it negative is stereotypes are not true. Making general stereotypes about any group of people is dehumanizing.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:20 PM   #86
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I love the regulars on this board. No matter how obstreporous, stubborn, and short-sighted someone is, you all try your best to explain and teach. You're fantastic, all of you.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:22 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Canotila View Post
Racism isn't about thinking people of a particular race are inferior. It's thinking people of a particular race possess specific traits due to their race (nationality, ethnicity, etc.) There are a lot of racist stereotypes that are not inherently bad things, like Jews being good with money, or Asian people being good at math.

What makes it negative is stereotypes are not true. Making general stereotypes about any group of people is dehumanizing.
You don't need to actually believe stereotypes to find a joke about them funny though. I'm pretty sure no one actually thinks Asian fast food restaurants cook stray cats after all but it can be amusing to wonder if that weird looking pork in the wonton is in fact cat (I'm Asian BTW).
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:22 PM   #88
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I love the regulars on this board. No matter how obstreporous, stubborn, and short-sighted someone is, you all try your best to explain and teach. You're fantastic, all of you.
You're a very tolerant person with your personal insults towards people who don't share your views.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:24 PM   #89
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So the 'privilege' of being thick-skinned? I'd argue that being thin-skinned is as much of a 'choice' as not 'wanting' to be politically correct, just as expressing thin-skinned-ness is as much of a choice as expressing political incorrectness. BTW I am a minority (and poor), and I don't think of myself as inferior... I do, however, view being thin-skinned and easily offended as a form of intolerance.

What set me off was this:



I found this assumption highly offensive and discriminatory. Also note that I have had more personal attacks thrown my way in this thread than the other way around, as I have been called a 'bigot' and 'stoopid' while the biggest insult I've used is probably... politically correct.
I want to tell you where to go with your internalized racism and overt sexism but I feel like it would have the same affect as blowing air on an ice cream to cool it down.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:24 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by glutton View Post
I found this assumption highly offensive and discriminatory. Also note that I have had more personal attacks thrown my way in this thread than the other way around, as I have been called a 'bigot' and 'stoopid' while the biggest insult I've used is probably... politically correct.

You asked if using the word "fair" would upset women. I think you got your answer... yes, some. Now, you have to sort out if you care or not. If your story is meant for an audience who expects to see 42 in. bust squeeze into a 38 in. chainmail bra, then you need to accept it's not going to appeal to 100% of the women out there (or men... can't be sexist myself).

On the other hand, if you are looking to present a unique character who is more than a bust size, perhaps you need to look at describing your story in a way that doesn't alienate the women who are offended by "fair".

It's hard to not make judgments about an author based on the writing. If you write things are considered un-PC, then people will label you. However, imo you shouldn't force your writing to be PC if that's not true to your story.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #91
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You're a very tolerant person with your personal insults towards people who don't share your views.
You know what, I'm too old to deal with other people's nonsense. I'm a lot older than many people on this board and I'm running out of time. And most of them are nicer than me too.

And it's odd that what you want be allowed to offend people but don't like it when it's handed back. What can I say?
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:26 PM   #92
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You don't need to actually believe stereotypes to find a joke about them funny though.
Um.... nor do you actually need to recognize a stereotype for what it is to find a joke about them distinctly unfunny, either.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:26 PM   #93
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I want to tell you where to go with your internalized racism and overt sexism but I feel like it would have the same affect as blowing air on an ice cream to cool it down.
See these are the type of assumptions that I find most offensive. If there's one group I'm bigoted against, it's the group of 'people who judge based on nothing but assumptions'.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:27 PM   #94
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You don't need to actually believe stereotypes to find a joke about them funny though. I'm pretty sure no one actually thinks Asian fast food restaurants cook stray cats after all but it can be amusing to wonder if that weird looking pork in the wonton is in fact cat (I'm Asian BTW).
My point wasn't about whether stereotypical jokes are funny. That's all a matter of personal taste. It's that a stereotype doesn't need to be about a negative trait to be racist.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:28 PM   #95
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See these are the type of assumptions that I find most offensive. If there's one group I'm bigoted against, it's the group of 'people who judge based on nothing but assumptions'.
Boohoo. Shall I cry you a river?
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:30 PM   #96
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Shall I cry you a river?
No, but your inability to discuss this civilly validates my negative preconceptions of 'you people' (Judgmental Assumers).
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:33 PM   #97
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No, but your inability to discuss this civilly validates my negative preconceptions of 'you people' (Judgmental Assumers).
'You people' you mean 'your inability to discuss this civilly validates my negative preconceptions about you women' seriously?

Well I did for a short time, I even tried to educate you upthread, but alas it was useless... wondering if you're trolling now.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:37 PM   #98
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'You people' you mean 'your inability to discuss this civility validates my negative preconceptions about you women' seriously?

Well I did for a short time, I even tried to educate you upthread, but alas it was useless... wondering if you're trolling now.
You make too many assumptions about people you don't know for me to consider being 'educated' by you.

Assumptions are what cause bigots to act like bigots after all.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:38 PM   #99
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Is it a bit too early for scores?
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #100
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I just find it amazing people accusing someone of bigotry are making a ton of judgments based on assumptions without supporting evidence.

It seems pretty likely somebody assumed I was a white male too.
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