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Old 11-16-2012, 10:22 PM   #51
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:27 PM   #52
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veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
The executives got an 80% pay hike in 2011, while in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Wow.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:44 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
The executives got an 80% pay hike in 2011, while in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Wow.
That's unconscionable, IMO. WTF doesn't Chapter 11 require a freeze on compensation, or a COLA limit?
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #54
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This is where I read it: http://seattletimes.com/html/soundec...d_hostess.html
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:00 PM   #55
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That seems a pretty astute summation. Thanks!
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:14 PM   #56
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As a college kid I once pulled the pink coconut covering off a Sno-Ball so I could eat the cake first, and the covereing next. Lo and behold when I did I found the cake was really just an upside-down Hostess Cupcake, sans icing.

Right then two things occurred to me: a), I guess this is where the cupcakes with dings and blemishes end up, and b), this is a pretty slick way use "everything but the squeal" (as we say down South); with thinking like this, these guys will always make money.

I appear to have been right about the first point, and wrong about the second.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:29 PM   #57
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As a college kid I once pulled the pink coconut covering off a Sno-Ball so I could eat the cake first, and the covereing next. Lo and behold when I did I found the cake was really just an upside-down Hostess Cupcake, sans icing.

Right then two things occurred to me: a), I guess this is where the cupcakes with dings and blemishes end up, and b), this is a pretty slick way use "everything but the squeal" (as we say down South); with thinking like this, these guys will always make money.

I appear to have been right about the first point, and wrong about the second.
That particular trick isn't unique to Hostess or indeed unique to bad baked goods sources like Hostess. A lot of decent bakers (amateur and professional) will have a small basic set of recipes that they then vary with different shapes, icings etc.

Since the actual experience of eating the confection has so many different components that are meant to work together the same cake under two different icings need not be the same experience for the eater.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:42 PM   #58
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Just got back from the store, the guy in line behind me had bought every package - boxed and individual wrapped - twinkie in the store. Said he had gone to the Hostess store across the street and they had been cleaned out of every ding dong, cupcake, twinkie and ho-ho in the building.

I confess I consume the occasional Hostess product from time to time, but I have to shake my head at the Hostess hording going on out there.

Then again, I have a friend in Mexico that gets me Delaware Punch since I can't buy it here in the states anymore so who am I to judge, lol.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:45 PM   #59
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Jokes on the hoarders when their twinkies go bad in a month or so. Unless they decide to eat that many in a month, which certainly isn't a good idea either.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:51 PM   #60
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Why Obamacare? Particularly with a unionized workforce, the cost of offering insurance is absolutely through the roof. That was in play long, long before Obamacare.
Because Obamacare allows the government to hammer a business with back-breaking fines if the business does not offer what the government thinks is right.

I'm sorry, but I have yet to meet a bureaucrat in any state or country who had the first clue about what they were doing and I prefer to trust my own judgement when it comes to matters involving my money, my business and my personal life.

And it will only get worse, so why would anyone in his/her right put up with it. Get out while you can and since "the people" have spoken that they want Big Government, then by all means let Big Government figure out how to help all the newly unemployed and underemployed that will come along as businesses figure out it isn't worth it anymore.

You are going to see a lot more Hostess-type situations as well as businesses deciding to cap an employee's weekly hours at 28 (those 40 Denny's in Florida, for example) to avoid the financial hit from Obamacare, IMHO.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:58 PM   #61
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1) The have already been in Chapter 11 twice before the new requirement
2) If they can't operate at a level where they pay minimum wage and cost-shared benefits the business is not viable.

Letting them carry one while full time honest workers can't have healthcare and the incompetent management get pay rises is not a solution.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:59 PM   #62
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Jokes on the hoarders when their twinkies go bad in a month or so. Unless they decide to eat that many in a month, which certainly isn't a good idea either.
Going back to the thread title.

"E-bay" or "From every market a sub-market grows."
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:20 AM   #63
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I'm sorry, but I have yet to meet a bureaucrat in any state or country who had the first clue about what they were doing and I prefer to trust my own judgement when it comes to matters involving my money, my business and my personal life.

And it will only get worse, so why would anyone in his/her right put up with it. Get out while you can and since "the people" have spoken that they want Big Government, then by all means let Big Government figure out how to help all the newly unemployed and underemployed that will come along as businesses figure out it isn't worth it anymore.
That may very well be your experience, Richard, but it doesn't make it universal.

Focusing more on the event at hand, I'm certainly not a fan of unions in their current incarnation, and I can't blame any privately owned business that wishes to close it's doors. I know several small businesses who have done exactly that, usually because their market left them or there was no family left to leave the business to.

However, in this case, it has also already been pointed out that the various run of investors have taken turns raiding the business's coffers or mismanaging the shrinking business while reneging on promises and commitments made to employees, regardless of whether or not those commitments were made in good faith. we can't blame their situation on the current government regulation, let alone potential future ones.

It looks, from the outside, more like investors took turns picking over the carcass while ignoring the workers that were keeping it warm.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:41 AM   #64
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I'm personally in favor of gutting the employer based healthcare system (where else in the first world does a family also lose health coverage when they become unemployed?). I kind of agree Obamacare will do it, but I don't think it's unintentional. It'll make way for a public option.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:02 AM   #65
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… ingredients in Twinkies:

enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening – containing one or more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.

Sure sound appetizing. Wholesome too. Eggs are in ‘em and beef.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:05 AM   #66
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Obama's reform was pretty half-assed. Shouldda just made it single-payer, everybody covered like everywhere else. That might have been politically impossible, though, don't know the circumstances well enough, and he achieved what he could. IMO Obamacare's definitely a step in the right direction, and when people start to tangibly feel the benefits should make further reform easier.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:38 AM   #67
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I have yet to meet a bureaucrat in any state or country who had the first clue about what they were doing
Bureaucrats infesting the management of many large corporations can be fully as stupid and probably more venal than are those in governmental positions. Methinks it probable that these types have contributed mightily to the failure of this company.

Understanding this story requires the sage advice "Deep Throat" gave to Bob Woodward during the investigation of the Watergate mess:

"Follow the money."

It certainly didn't go to the workers, and I'm pretty sure it isn't going to the labor union.

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Old 11-17-2012, 02:22 AM   #68
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I have to speak up for some of these investors. Buying ailing companies doesn't have to be an evil thing Even venture capitalists aren't all evil.

Depending on the industry, of course, you even see former employees buying up companies and restructuring them. Or buying equipment from them and making their own start-up, etc.

If a company is in bankruptcy, the court gets to tell the investors how things are going to be, btw. Before the court steps in, investors can be terribly immoral, but not so much after. That's mostly up to the court.

Dad typically works for the banks, so the decisions are made according to what the court will allow and what investors can still fund, in combination. He and his partners get put in as acting CEO and COO, due to the company's legal agreements with the banks (and the court). It's all very controlled at that point. Raising executive wages, for instance, isn't allowed in bankruptcy court unless a judge thinks it's a good idea for some reason.

Outside of bankruptcy, things are much different. You do have too much picking of the bones during bankruptcy, but that's usually because it's hard to find creative new ideas that actually convince a judge and investors that they'll work to bring the company back around. It's much better to try to fix all of that before it comes to bankruptcy, as you might imagine. In any case, the judges are much more objective than anyone else, and they do look at both workers and investors in making their decisions.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:42 AM   #69
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Twinkies will still be available in Canada as all Hostess products are licensed by Saputo here. Although the only Hostess products I've seen on the local storeshelves have been Ruffles and Wonderbread.
Woo-hoo for the fortune we will make from cross-border shoppers, and indeed, why wouldn't the Canadian companies who sell prescription drugs to Americans on-line not carry Twinkies, etc, as well? Bricks-and-mortar drug stores do!

I gather that the 'Grand Plan' is to sell off the Hostess Assets, so some other outfit will by the license for Twinkies, etc, and carry right on, probably in the same plants, with the same people (right after they get rid of the unions, and roll back the wages).
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:48 AM   #70
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:58 AM   #71
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I gather that the 'Grand Plan' is to sell off the Hostess Assets, so some other outfit will by the license for Twinkies, etc, and carry right on, probably in the same plants, with the same people (right after they get rid of the unions, and roll back the wages).
This is what I think is going to happen. The Twinkie, ho-ho names are too popular to let go to waste.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:15 AM   #72
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This is what I think is going to happen. The Twinkie, ho-ho names are too popular to let go to waste.
... quite possibly so. Makes sense. Will pose a question though. Have there been large companies in the past that have folded, w/o resurrected offshoots? If so, then Hostess may go the way of the dodo bird too despite its enormity.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:23 AM   #73
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... quite possibly so. Makes sense. Will pose a question though. Have there been large companies in the past that have folded, w/o resurrected offshoots? If so, then Hostess may go the way of the dodo bird too despite its enormity.
Atari comes to mind right off the top of my head.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:20 AM   #74
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A brilliant FB post from a friend:
I'm stealing this!
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:32 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Ken View Post
... quite possibly so. Makes sense. Will pose a question though. Have there been large companies in the past that have folded, w/o resurrected offshoots? If so, then Hostess may go the way of the dodo bird too despite its enormity.
Possibly. But in terms of the product vacuum, that would get filled very quickly. Sara Lee, Nabisco, Keebler, God knows who else, are already paying rapt attention to this episode, and their product people no doubt already have contingency plans for mass-production of similar cheap crap snack foods aimed explicitly at the insatiable market in the U.S. for cheap crap snack foods.

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