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Old 11-16-2012, 11:10 PM   #17601
callalily61
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callalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
My opinionated opinion: It's NEVER okay to tell someone not to follow their dreams. It's okay to say: Get a job to support yourself WHILE following your dream. Be informed about the market. Learn the craft. KEEP following your dream.

Giving up on dreams... bad. I gave up on my dream of being a Broadway actress because I realized I didn't have the chops to make it to that higher tier. That was a sad year. I had the writing, which was my first dream, and I returned to it. Things got better. I shudder to think what kind of embittered 9-to-5 angry grunt worker I'd be today without a dream.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:16 PM   #17602
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dystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsdystophil is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Hah, Phillip Roth. I actually rather like his stuff. Also, from his writing I gather he's a rather dry, cynical person, so I'd take that with a grain of salt, honestly. Then again, you can't deny that quitting on a "high note", so to speak also means you always have that high note to hold on to. Success, in whichever way you want to define it. But then again this also means you may never actually reach your full potential and is momentary success worth the regret of never having tried?

Yes, excuse me, I am verbally emoting all over the place today. The things therapy does to you, I swear.

Anyway, just my (possibly overly idealistic) two cents...
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:18 PM   #17603
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firedrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfiredrake is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
(((((Blond))))))

*shoves a couple of sparkly Neds into the Cuisinart*

I'd never discourage anyone from pursuing their dreams either. Young FD wants to be an animator, he's not very good at art. I encourage him to practice, practice, practice but to also make sure he does well in subjects which he may have to fall back on...just in case.

My crazy aunt expressing her opinion on my FB page,,,again.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:19 PM   #17604
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callalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
fire, if you blocked her would it cause a family implosion?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #17605
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My opinionated opinion: It's NEVER okay to tell someone not to follow their dreams.
^ this is exactly why my younger brother and I no longer speak and why I broke a rule of mine and intervened between him and his former girlfriend
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #17606
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:22 PM   #17607
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xiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsxiaotien is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
clovia, point taken. he certainly
is entitled to his opinion and honesty.
we have all been too honest one day
or another. ha!

dyst, i got that about him too, cynical.

but i'd have to agree with lily pie.

do i want to be a person who:

1. didn't follow my dreams, didn't have my
dreams crushed along the way, played it safe
and never stretched or challenged myself.

2. followed my dreams, challenged myself,
had my heart crushed, chewed, handed back
to me on a platter. "succeeded" (by whatever
definition) or more likely "failed (by whatever
definition).

i'd rather be the latter.

i think i learned somewhere in my early 30's
that i hate regret.

life is short. i wouldn't NOT wanted to have
tried for a dream, you know?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:23 PM   #17608
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(((Blond))) Wishing JL much luck!

Meh, that strikes me as Roth being a rather cynical person, but not mean-spirited. I gave similar advice to a friend the other day after her daughter wrote her first "book" (she's seven). I told her she didn't want her happy little girl turning into bitter old me.

Serious question - is it better to dream and fail or dream and struggle than to never dream at all? I imagine the latter would put a lot of liquor manufacturers and therapists out of business.

ETA: as to Xiao's post, I'd much rather not have a dream than have one and keep failing at it like I currently am. I'd be happier, and I'm certain I'd find other ways to challenge myself via work or whatever.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:23 PM   #17609
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fire, if you blocked her would it cause a family implosion?
Yes, she's my Mum's twin sister.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:24 PM   #17610
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What Lily said. *sage nod*

I'm actually currently kind of experiencing just that. The whole "my dreams are totally crazy and delusional. I want all these things I can't ever have," blah, blah, blah. And really I'm just self-sabotaging myself, because it effectively turns me into a closed-off wuss.

Yeah, anyway. Sleep-deprived and emoting all over the place? Check. Filter irreparably broken? Double check. Coherence? Nonexistent. Sorry everyone.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #17611
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Blond, I was actually just thinking of JL yesterday and getting worried that I hadn't heard anything from you since I know TX results came out last week. The results almost always come out much earlier than they say. Usually mid afternoon! So, I'm sending lots and lots of positivity your way. Eek! What an awful/glorious day, that is
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #17612
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inkie, i answered your question with above
post, but i honestly think we, as individuals,
are *nothing* without our dreams.

we are also nothing without hope.

it is as simple as that to me.

and look, i'm totally honest. i'm not roses
and sunshine about this. (although i guess
most of you think i'm "perky". ha!) when
i do book panels with local authors, it's pretty
hilarious how honest we are about how bloody
hard this business is.

but we also convey the great parts and the
excitement, and the mere fact of having written
and put a book out there for others to read.

it's a crazy dichotomy, but there it is.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:27 PM   #17613
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(((Fire))) Ugh on the crazy family. The trick is to speak a language they don't know, I tell you.

(((Blond))) That's just crazy! I want to say I'm glad you found some middle ground, but really I feel that she's just not even close to paying you what you're worth. Let alone valuing you. Bar and employment vamp dust for JL!
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:31 PM   #17614
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*refrains from getting all psychologist and talking about variable interval reward schedules and conditioning*



*also realizes she is way too dark and cynical for this thread and should probably go back to writing more crap that no one else will read*
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:32 PM   #17615
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Just read the Roth piece. It certainly didn't sound mean-spirited on Roth's part to me since it wasn't as if he knew the author or the author's work personally. He just sounded exhausted from the whole endeavor. Haven't we all been?

I don't know what to think. I know I've had the same thoughts myself. Sometimes it'd be nice not to have this *Extra* thing and to just go around like a normal person. When you're off work, you have free time and watch TV rather than try to sneak in time writing. But I also think we're all more interesting people for having worked at something we're passionate about.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:34 PM   #17616
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inkie, i have no idea what you're talking about.
ha!

but i only really believe in this life.
and nothing beyond it.

so i'm going to try and make as much
of it as i can, you know?

i'm not sure everyone *is* cut out for some
things though, not everyone is as thick skinned
and many people are more sensitive.

it's about knowing yourself in the end.
that is the most important thing, i think.
knowing and accepting yourself.
and hokey as hell, but definitely loving yourself.

dreams and hopes, that is the most important
thing to *me* playing this game called Life. =)
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:40 PM   #17617
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inkie, i have no idea what you're talking about.
ha!
Basically, the most effective way to reinforce a behavior pattern is to reward people at random intervals for doing the behavior. Most of life is like this. Publishing sure is. You never know when something you do might pay off, so you keep doing it and doing it and are unlikely to give up because of the possibility that next time will be the time you get your reward.

And basically, I agree with you. Which is why if my next book doesn't sell, I'm going to sit down agent lady and explain I want to self-publish it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:43 PM   #17618
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Hi everyone, hope you are all having a good Friday! That Roth story sounds rather like the old "you don't have the fire"/violinist story to me...
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:46 PM   #17619
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Basically, the most effective way to reinforce a behavior pattern is to reward people at random intervals for doing the behavior. Most of life is like this. Publishing sure is. You never know when something you do might pay off, so you keep doing it and doing it and are unlikely to give up because of the possibility that next time will be the time you get your reward..
The old pigeon example! (i.e., the pigeons fed at random intervals never stopped pecking to get the food. One of my favorite things in college was when my behavioral psychology professor was demonstrating this with live birds and, after one bird became recalcitrant, left the room saying "I'm going to go get my backup pecker.")
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:47 PM   #17620
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I'm a stubborn broad. Tell me I'm not good enough to achieve something and I'm going to go at it all the harder. The convent backfired that way. But other things haven't.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #17621
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It's Friday. My brain hurts. Next week is Thanksgiving. Where did 2012 go???

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Old 11-16-2012, 11:52 PM   #17622
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Thanks for all the birthday wishes yesterday! 24 is a big number.

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ETA: as to Xiao's post, I'd much rather not have a dream than have one and keep failing at it like I currently am. I'd be happier, and I'm certain I'd find other ways to challenge myself via work or whatever.
I'm definitely with ink here. Having an unattainable dream makes me miserable on a regular basis. I'd rather not have a dream at all, and I'm working on that.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:04 AM   #17623
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I'm definitely with ink here. Having an unattainable dream makes me miserable on a regular basis. I'd rather not have a dream at all, and I'm working on that.
Totally understand that thought process. Ugh.

Can I just say I'm glad to have people to lament and obsess with again, though? I've found a lot of my writing friends seem to fizzling off, a bit exhausted in the whole process and it's hard not to have as many people that feel the same about writing to talk to...
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:07 AM   #17624
Amarie
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Amarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAmarie is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
It's hard for me to know what to say when someone tells me it's their dream to be an author. I don't tell them not to try, but I am really honest about how difficult it is. And I don't know how others feel about it, but I actually tell kids and teens I wouldn't advise they pick a creative writing major in college.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:11 AM   #17625
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callalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentscallalily61 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Amarie, I've always told my kids to dream big AND get a degree in something that will pay the bills while they're working toward the dream.

I'm the practical one in the family.
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