Sex in UF?

No. It's not a requirement for UF.

Urban fantasy has more emphasis on events that impact the locale/world, the character overcoming obstacles, etc. Not relationships.

You can certainly have an element of romance in UF, but you don't have to have sex scenes. Even if your character does have relations, you can fade to black if you're uncomfortable writing it/adding the scene doesn't fit the tone of the story.

It's definitely expected in PNR, UF you have more room to do what you want.

My protag is asexual, and sex-phobic, so she's not going to be doing anything anytime soon. (The people around her do have sex, so I do still have sex scenes).

I'm having trouble with this one too. I was calling my novel urban fantasy. it's a slightly dystopian apocalyptic fantasy. It has the 'urban' (set in a city) and the 'fantasy' (ghosts, magic) but no romance really. I don't think of the romance as necessary and don't conflate that with paranormal romance, but then I read this example of a good query:

http://www.bookcountry.com/Industry...yIndustryArticles+(BookCountry+Industry+Blog)

That editor does conflate the two and expects romance for UF. So I guess I'll need another name.

What genre names do you all give Tim Powers (especially Last Call, Expiration Date, Earthquake Weather) and Gaiman's American Gods and Kate Griffin A Madness of Angels and anything else like that? All of those are Urban and Fantasy but no romance to speak of.

First, what everybody else said. Second, my two cents:

Urban Fantasy is a predominantly urban setting + fantasy (typically modern/contemporary, but that's not required. Glen Cook's Garrett Files take place on a secondary world but are often classified as "Urban Fantasy"). It's no different than Epic Fantasy (world changing events + fantasy) or, say, Dystopian Science Fiction.

Paranormal Romance is romance centered on a HEA + fantasy, sometimes set in an urban setting, which then causes a bit of crossover. But where the purpose of a PNR story is to explore the characters' romantic relationship, set forth challenges, but eventually give them their happily ever after, a UF story's purpose isn't decided by it being an Urban Fantasy.

You could have the story be an epic quest to save the city, or it could be a struggle between different magical factions, or it could be solving a mystery, or it could be about a bunch of magical people trying to survive in the big, bad human world. All those stories would still likely be considered Urban Fantasy and, sure, some of them might have a romantic element, but it'd be the same way that an Epic Fantasy might have two characters fall in love.

Anyway, long story short, an Urban Fantasy doesn't need a romantic element. A Paranormal Romance, by definition, does. I'd consider "American Gods" and "A Madness of Angels" Urban Fantasy and though I haven't read it, the Goodreads blurb makes the "Fault Lines" trilogy sound Urban Fantasy.

@Sagana: I didn't really see where that agent said she will only read UF with romantic elements. I did see a lot of her saying she wanted something "different" that grabbed her attention and that she was sold on the storyteller's voice. True, that particular query had a romantic subplot, but I'd do more research on her before writing her off completely.

Thanks so much for your reply. I would consider those stories UF as well.

I didn't mean to be writing any agent off. I wasn't actually researching agencies (I'm still editing my rough draft), just reading about a query letter that worked

But I've been fussing around about identifying a genre for awhile now, and I'm concerned that if I use UF I'll confuse someone, specifically an agent, about what my story involves. It was this portion that makes me think she sees UF as having a romantic element:

The romance is critical, and I liked that Marius wasn't your typical vampire/werewolf/wizard, but his description as "insatiable" was one of the things we revised when pitching this to editors. We called him a "sarcastic, self-centered satyr," which gave a clearer impression of the source of romantic conflict. (Every word counts!)

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It may very well be that she requests romance in her guidelines or something, and that isn't really meant to be a genre comment. I haven't read her info or anything. As I said, I wasn't actively looking at agencies, just reading a sample a friend posted of something that works.

@Sagana: Can't help you there. You can probably get away with not worrying about it until you're getting ready to start querying. And by then, you'll probably have a beta-reader or two (or twelve) to consult about what genre they think the book falls into anyway.

And in regards to the quoted section, I think she was meaning this particular story, not all stories. At least, that's what I took away from it.

After looking at the link and query that's troubling you, I think you might be making yourself worry over the nothing. The agent/editor doesn't appear to be imagining/shoving in a sub-plot for an otherwise romance-free UF--the author already has a romantic sub-plot, and her story as pitched is both UF and PNR. The blogger's just clarifying as much in her breakdown, for the readers' benefit.

Don't worry about it. UF =/= PNR. They just have a lot of overlap these days.

Sagana said:

I'm having trouble with this one too. I was calling my novel urban fantasy. it's a slightly dystopian apocalyptic fantasy. It has the 'urban' (set in a city) and the 'fantasy' (ghosts, magic) but no romance really. I don't think of the romance as necessary and don't conflate that with paranormal romance, but then I read this example of a good query:

http://www.bookcountry.com/Industry...yIndustryArticles+(BookCountry+Industry+Blog)

That editor does conflate the two and expects romance for UF. So I guess I'll need another name.

What genre names do you all give Tim Powers (especially Last Call, Expiration Date, Earthquake Weather) and Gaiman's American Gods and Kate Griffin A Madness of Angels and anything else like that? All of those are Urban and Fantasy but no romance to speak of.

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A lot of readers do expect romance and sex in urban fantasy, which'll reflect on what some agents and editors want. It's not unusual to see people discuss urban fantasy with the assumption that there's always a romance, or to treat books like Neil Gaiman's as only technically urban fantasy.

It's reflected in the marketing too. Most urban fantasy books have people covers - often women in leather. My local bookstore has a shelf for them called "dark fantasy", which has a mix of paranormal romance and urban fantasy. Things like Gaiman's work aren't on that shelf. They're stocked in the main SFF section, with symbolic covers, and a reduced chance of mentioning it's urban fantasy in the blurb.

All that doesn't impact at the query level though, as those works are sold as urban fantasy. They'll be considered such by writing professionals. It's just at the reader end, there is that expectation, and it does impact how a book gets packaged.

Thanks everyone. I think I'm worried because my story doesn't start out very fantasy-ish (it has lots more later on) and when I posted the beginning in SYW and listed it as UF (something), I got a lot of "where's the fantasy". I think it would have been clearer if I'd said something like "apocalyptic fantasy" or just left it at speculative fiction. Although I do think it's clearer that it's not a straight 'literary' in the rewrite (on the same thread). Yes, I worry over probably not worth worrying over.

I don't think it's expected...but I mean...I like it when it happens >_>...

Sagana, you can always call it contemporary fantasy if urban fantasy is being conflated with paranormal romance.

Mind you, contemporary fantasy can have romantic sub-plots, too.

I have a male MC who happens to be a vampire (he's never bitten anyone and thus still has a soul and can tollerate daylight). He works in IT and moonlights as bagman for a firm of suspect lawyers. As he can't risk accidental exposure to human blood (it would drive him into a feeding frenzy) he forgoes long-term relationships for sex with prostitutes. I'd call this UF as its set in London and is more Get Carter with fangs than Buffy.

Sex happens in my UF, but I don't write about it. I'm more of a "fade to black and let the reader fill in the obvious" sort of writer.

I don't have any problem with sex scenes in other peoples books, but I can't say I've ever felt the need to write them.

Agree with the others that sex is hardly necessary in UF. Yes, there's some in the Dresden Files (very little), but it's not a major part of the series by a long shot (well, okay, except how it sets things up for "Changes." But in general romance is the last thing on Harry's mind). The Nightside series by Green has the MC with a girlfriend, but I would hardly call that having a romance or sex scenes. When she shows up she's shooting people, not having touching, moony moments with the MC. So relationships, like real people would have, might be there, but a romance subplot, with scenes dedicated to it or to having sex, is not expected or needed for a book to be successful.

The one thing I like about UF is, sex only happens if it is part of the story and it builds up, even if it is over a series. I just a read a series of three books where at the end of book three, the MC's simply kissed, it was clear what else would happen after, but the actual sex scenes weren't important to the story and I think had the writer put them in, they might have seemed forced and space filling.

I'm glad you started this thread. I was very worried that my books wouldn't sell because I do NOT write PNR.

Let's bring UF back to what it used to be!

In case it helps:

Looking at the biggies in UF—Butcher, Briggs, Harris—you get a kinda nice scale of sexeh, from least to most, and they're all UF.

(I know Hamilton is a biggie and so is Harrison but I haven't read them so I can't comment on where they fit.)

So methinks you'd be safe with no sex, a bit o' sex, or a damn lot of sex in your UF as long as it remains a subplot and not the big deal of your book. Tastes differ and that's all good. Whatever you choose, you certainly won't please everyone.

For my series, I get emails thanking me for not going into detail because EW I HATE SLIPPERY BITS and I also get emails going AW WHY CAN'T WE GET A PEEK AT THEIR LOVIN'? Best to just do what's right for your story, call it UF as long as it isn't a romance plot, and let the editors worry about packaging it.