Using a quote from "Paradise Lost" in dialogue?

cornflake said:

There is no length you can copy without permission = you may not copy any amount of a copyrighted work without permission, yes, for things that would violate copyright, as I have noted each time.

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Fair use is a legal method of circumventing copyright restrictions in limited circumstances. The "for things that would violate copyright" thing you're going on about is essentially meaningless; if it's fair use, it doesn't violate copyright, by definition. The issue is determining whether or not it is fair use. "things that would violate copyright" is not part of that determination, since it's only copyrighted things you can claim fair use on in the first place.

Evan Henry said:

Fair use is a legal method of circumventing copyright restrictions in limited circumstances. The "for things that would violate copyright" thing you're going on about is essentially meaningless; if it's fair use, it doesn't violate copyright. The only issue is determining whether or not it is fair use. "things that would violate copyright" is not part of that determination, since it's only copyrighted things you can claim fair use on in the first place.

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For... by 'for things that would violate copyright' I meant, specifically, things that do not fall under a fair use claim, as one can use copyrighted material without violating copyright under fair use.

I posted the quote and link to the relevant page of copyright law for anyone interested in understanding the very clear rules.

I'm done with this discussion.

I don't know why you had to reply to that. We're saying the same thing, except I'm stating it in clear terms and you're taking some weird, roundabout path to arrive at the same destination. It's like you're saying "Machines can't fly. Except for machines that can fly, which we call airplanes. And if it can't fly, it's not an airplane" rather than just "Airplanes are machines that fly."

cornflake said:

For... by 'for things that would violate copyright' I meant, specifically, things that do not fall under a fair use claim, as one can use copyrighted material without violating copyright under fair use.

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Just like I said in my first post! What are you disagreeing with?

Evan Henry said:

I don't know why you had to reply to that. We're saying the same thing, except I'm stating it in clear terms and you're taking some weird, roundabout path to arrive at the same destination. It's like you're saying "Machines can't fly. Except for machines that can fly, which we call airplanes. And if it can't fly, it's not an airplane" rather than just "Airplanes are machines that fly."


Just like I said in my first post! What are you disagreeing with?

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You might want to reread your first post.

Evan Henry said:

You're both wrong! Which I retracted once I realized I misunderstood you.

While there's no specific amount of text you can claim fair use on, fair use does exist as a legal principle and is used every day to include copyrighted material in new works. While length is one of the four criteria used to determine whether or not a claim of fair use is valid, it is not (as you might have guessed when I used the word "four") the only criterion. The material used could be three words or half a book (that second is significantly less likely, but it is possible).

For the full low-down on this, I highly recommend Mr. Ivan Hoffman.

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So, now what are you disagreeing with? What part of my post is factually wrong?

Boy - talk about topic drift!

The legal principles of fair use and copyright are certainly important ones, but wholly irrelevant to the OP's question wrt a quote from Milton, who has been dead for approx 350 years and all of whose works can be quoted, misquoted, used, abused, and freely handled by any writer in any way without any legal or moral barrier. Unless you're referencing a specific edition of his works there's no need for a formal attribution, never mind mention on the copyright page. (In fact, noting Milton on the copyright page would look silly, not respectful.)

A major issue with quoting copyrighted material under the umbrella of "fair use" is the type of work in which the quote is being made. "Fair use" explicitly covers scholarly, critical or parodical work, not other creative work such as fiction.

And, as James D. Macdonald has often noted here, the "fair use" principle is a defense, not a permission.

caw