Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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abdel411

A seemingly obvious question

I haven't written anything professionally, just sorta jotted a few ideas down in my spare time, but recently, I've devoted myself to writing a novel. I try to get in two hours of writing everyday, but I'm still in school so I have studies to attend to as well. I'd like a simple explanation of the publishing process, I.E. who do I send a manuscript to and what is average pay, length of work, etc.

(I realize some of these questions have already been answered throughout the post, but I'd like to make sure I have everything straight.)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: A seemingly obvious question

Woo-whee, abdel411!

Those aren't simple, easy questions, and there isn't a simple explanation. Lots of different cases, lots of variables, lots of outcomes.

Here, though, are some very simple ones:
The length is whatever length is the best one for your story (you'll learn this through experience).
Who you send it to is someone who is likely to buy it (you'll learn this through research).
Average pay approaches zero (more experience).


Your local bookstore and library are full of book-length works explaining all these things. Check 'em out. Meanwhile, here's a good collection of articles: <a href="http://www.sfwa.org/writing/" target="_new">Read 'em and digest.</a>

Now some general words of advice: First write your book. Thinking about writing isn't writing. Talking about writing isn't writing. Only writing is writing. Write with all the power and passion and skill that you have. Get to The End. Revise the snot out of your book. Then send it on its way to paying markets.

Submitting your work isn't writing either; now it's time to start writing a new book.

Don't ever pay to get published.
 

Iocaine

Obsession

I never had any interest in writing.

I'm a software engineer. My career is a dominatrix that demands aesthetic design under cruel schedules, and she rewards me well.

Another mistress would surely be too much to bear, and yet...

The Idea started innocuously enough, a random thought while driving to work. But now it won't shut up; its like having an attention-starved puppy in my head.

I know I have a story to tell, but dare I commit it to Gauss? As with so many other bright and shiny projects, will I get bored, and set it aside half-assembled? Will I mix metaphors of masochism and puppies?

So here I am, reading. Learning from Uncle Jim & co.

Procrastinating.

Should I learn? Practice? Run away?

Or just jump in, and damn the torpedoes?

I think I now understand this quote:

"In the end, you write the book that grabs you by the throat and demands to be written."

-Salman Rushdie
 

Yeshanu

A Lurker Comes Out of the Shadows

Hi, everyone.

I'm new here, and have been lurking for a few days while I read through all 27 pages of posts.

Reading most of it in one day (yesterday) was interesting -- I was able to see group dynamics in action. More on that in another post, perhaps.

For my first post, I thought I'd introduce myself -- I'm a student pastor in (at the moment) snowy Ontario, and I've been writing seriously since about the age of 11 or 12. When my daughter was born, I started a fantasy novel, and somewhere about a decade ago I actually finished the first draft. My beta readers all think it's good enough to publish (even my kids, who are critical of most everything else I do), and it won't let me put it away in a drawer and let it die. However, I know I have a great deal of revision to do -- not of spelling, grammar or style, but of plot, character and overall coherence.

Any suggestions?

Also, my first three chapters are probably as close to the final form as they are going to get without an agent's or editor's input. Should I think about query letters and submitting at this point? (I do work better with an immovable deadline -- like Sunday morning.)

Just want to say I'm glad to be here. :heart

Ruth
 

aka eraser

Re: A Lurker Comes Out of the Shadows

Welcome from another canucklehead.

The first 3 chapters and a detailed synopsis is often enough to bait a hook with non-fiction but for a first-time novelist, I think you need the whole ms good-to-go.
 

Zhengshu

5 Step Program - Agents?

Like Ruth, I'm a new reader still digesting 27 pages of excellent advice. I have to say I've really appreciated this forum and the "lessons" from Uncle Jim.

I'm still just a young author, but I've been writing for years and have a nice little pile of short stories that I wrote just for fun. I never thought I had time to really get into the swing of things (what, with school and all) until I read about Uncle Jim's sleeping habits. :eek But now I'm inspired to turn my little novel outlines into novels.

From what I've gathered here, the basic process for this long journey is something like this:

1. Write novel (BIC method).
2. All stages of rewriting, revision, etc.
3. Gather info on publishers and agents.
4. Send to publishers (one at a time).
5. If you get a deal, contact an agent with contract in hand.

It's step three that I seem to have the most trouble with. Do you recommend Writers Market for information on publishers and agents? It's easy enough to make a list of publishers you'd like to see handle your book, but agents seem to be more behind-the-scenes from the perspective of a layman like myself. Any hints?
 

qatz

Re: Obsession

hi, locaine, and good luck! among other things, you will definitely want to take part in our procrastination seminar, in the casually scheduled group chat held by some of us that occurs once in a while. the procrastination chat has been rescheduled about 3 or 4 times and put off indefinitely . . . but one of these days it may actually happen, if it's all not too much work! Q
 

qatz

Re: A Lurker Comes Out of the Shadows

Hi Ruth! check out www.ebedits.com if you like. good luck! oh, and by the way, the group dynamics constantly evolve. we're a pretty friendly group when all is said and done with only a few oddballs. :ack

Signed, Crackpot
 

qatz

Re: 5 Step Program - Agents?

Hi Zhengshu, and welcome! There are authorities here who can help you with agents. In respect to your Step Two, though, you might want to involve other, perhaps more objective people in your revision process. Things can always use more work, I've found. Dave Kuminski's Preditors and Editors website is a good resource. Anyone got the URL? Ahem, there is also moi, I'm just starting out with www.ebedits.com ... and there are a lot of friendly people here who will share ideas and look over snippets of your stuff (in the Share Your Work board) for FREE. Some of these guys actually know what they're talking about, too! Q
 

jerir12

Re: preditors and editors link

I've been reading the discussions in these pages. I just posted a scene on the 1st page in the Novel Writing forum. Is that the proper place to post ones scenes for their novel?

Has anyone in this discussion group posted scenes of their novels in any of these forums? If I didn't post my scene in the proper place where do I post it?

Jerir12(JerryR)
 

emeraldcite

Re: preditors and editors link

jerry, on the front page of the water cooler there is a board marked "Share your work." You can post anything you want there for critique and review. Welcome to the boards! i hope you find the information and advice useful for your pursuits.
 

virgilanti

Re: Learn Writing with Uncle Jim

Thank you Uncle Jim. This thread is a great resource and has been an inspiration for me to get on my butt.

With a full time job and a family I'm trying to work out how to manage a couple of hours of undisturbed writing per day. The two hours after midnight sound perfect but my self discipline hits an all time low at that end of the day. My initial attempt at pre-dawn hours showed up a few flaws. I'll find a way.
 

Anjulis

How to publish

Hi,

Can I ask you a question? I have written and published about 30 short SF stories and two big ones in a different country and different language (Russian). I would like to translate them to English and get them published in the USA.
1. What are the steps to get them published?
2. How much should I expect to get for a short story, say 15 pages? Do they pay for word/page/story?
3. Who publishes SF short stories in the US? SF magazines?
4. Should I take some specific steps for copyright issues? I don't know how US law works in this respect.
 

KyleDHebert

revision

When exactly is the best time to begin revisions. Should I start the day after finishing or is it better to set the MS aside for awhile and let it stew?
 

HapiSofi

Re: The Mid-Book

James D. Macdonald, I want to argue with you about midbooks.

Midbooks are great. They're my favorite part of the novel. The expository burdens of setting up the world and the story are fully paid up to date, and the flensing-away and hard choices of the ending aren't yet upon you. Everybody in the book knows what they're supposed to be doing by now, and so does the reader.

Midbooks are the happy middle age of the book. They're the proper territory of grand set pieces, embedded short stories, ornamentally weird subplots, significant episodes starring non-major characters, masques, battles, and all that jazz. (Jazz is good.) If you need to make a change in a major character, this is where it should happen. Midbooks are also the right place for that underrated event, the index-episode of perfect happiness, wherein everything works out just right, and everyone behaves characteristically.

The only requirement is that it all has to move-toward in terms of the overall book. That isn't all that hard. You can maintain balance by keeping the novel stripped down to the bone, but you can also do it by having enough odd-sized and odd-shaped objects hanging off it.

So say I. Your mileage may vary.
 

Salve Ghostwalker

Re: How to publish

Hi Anjulis,

>>> 1. What are the steps to get them published? <<<

It sounds like the first step is to translate a few of your best stories and try them at the U.S. markets.

>>> 3. Who publishes SF short stories in the US? <<<

check www.ralan.com for a list of professional and semi-professional SF & Fantasy magazines.

I can't answer the other questions.
 

troutwaxer

Delurking. Also, Transitions.

Hi everyone. I just finished reading the entire board up to this point, and wanted to say hello. I'll be following along daily.

Jim, thanks for doing all this hard work. I really appreciate it.

An earlier poster asked about the subject of transitions, and I must admit that I have problems with them too. What is the proper method for skipping a long period of time in a narrative, and when one resumes the story a week/month/year later, how does one clue the reader into how long it's been?

Alex
 

envygreen

Re: helpful and true eh?

1 - Thanks Uncle Jim (and all you others). This thread is great reading, especially for someone still in the foothills and questing towards 'The Mountain'.

(i'm trying to make a name for myself [and hone my skills] with short speculative fiction before trying to climb the pile of notes that comprises my 'future novel' aka 'The Mountain')

2 - I hope you don't mind free publicity. I am a big proponent of spreading useful information (to help combat all the not-so-useful info that propagates on it's own) and so i posted it on Future Tense (the Alan Lattimore writing site, it's about 4 stories down from the top right now), and then mentioned it on my site with a link and then borrowed a wee bit of your inspiration (i'll return it after dry cleaning!) to start my own little thread (on a board i just learned to install on sunday night!) that isn't about teaching, but about learning. (collection of links and sage sayings, including quite a bit of this thread, thanks again Uncle Jim!

3 - Stephen Brust is one of my personal favorite authors, but i haven't read the book you recommended (though i've read almost every Jhereg Series book he's put out, and LOVE Cowboy Feng's Space Bar and Grille.)

Soo.... I ordered a copy and it should show up in my mailbox in a week or so.

4 - on the helpful note: any reason no one has mentioned Writer's Market 2004 as a good resource? Is it because it's more aimed at short stories than novels? if so, there is also (though i haven't used it so can't vouch for it personally) 2004 Novel & Short Story Writer's Market.

i only mention this because as uncle jim said, as soon as it's done, you send it, and move on to writing something new.

to expand slightly, i've been told, send it, but have your list of publishers already in order of your most to least preffered. and possibly envelopes already labeled for the top few on your list.

then if/when you recieve a rejection slip, you can, THAT SAME DAY, slip a new copy of your MS into the mail to your second (third, fourth, last) publisher on the list, and these books will at least give you a start on who you want to send to. (but do NOT ignore the sage advice to actually go to a bookstore, and see for yourself what that publisher actually puts out)


-Rob Eubanks

<anxiously awaiting his next rejection slip and working more science fiction>
 

AndySoc1al

Software

I've played a bit with Dramatica in the past, and I'm currently reading up on Campbell's approach to myth in culture. These two seem to mesh pretty well in theory, but I wonder who (besides Tracy Hickman) uses Dramatica to help them with their novels?

I think the ideas behind it are interesting, in that they help to make sure you put enough characters into the story and flesh them out well enough to make it a novel instead of a really long short story.

Anyone else looked at Dramatica? Jim?
 

HConn

Re: Software

I have Dramatica on my shelf. I won it in a contest. I've never opened it, though. I've been meaning to sell it on ebay.

From what I've heard of it, it's an unusual theory and very involved. Some folks swear by it, but no one who sells their work will profess to using it.
 

Anjulis

Translate?

The problem is that I need to pay for the transaltion so I need to know how much I can expect to get from publisher. At least, a rough number.
 
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