Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

One space after punctuation ending a sentence

I moved this to

<a href="http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessage?topicID=453.topic" target="_new">pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessage?topicID=453.topic</a>

since it doesn't directly apply to writing novels.

Re: That Silly Salon Article

Just followed the link above and read Charlie Stross' reply. If you haven't already done so, read it! Very intelligent advice if you want to build a writing career, and not just sell one novel.

As for Jane Austen Doe, I couldn't even read the whole article. I absolutely detest whiners. If her books read as easily as the article, then I don't wonder that they never sold well. I do wonder why they sold in the first place.

Oh, well. I believe one of the links above said something about life not being fair...

On a good note, I was finally able to order my copy of "Logical Chess" from Chapter's on Saturday (my tax return came in) and got it in the mail yesterday! See? Good things do happen to good people sometimes. In fact, given that I was told it wouldn't even be shipped until yesterday or today, both Chapter's and Canada Post did an amazing job!

So I'm off to play chess with myself.

Practical advice

Now some practical advice for "Jane Austen Doe" over at Salon.com.

1. Don't quit your day job.

2. Take that first book, the one that you got the $150K advance on. I'm sure it's reverted by now. Resell it to a small press that will bring it out in a prestige trade paperback edition. A $500 or $1,000 advance is not too small for you to accept. Same with your other books as they revert.

3. That celebrity ghostwriter gig is a good one. Ask your agent to line up some more of those.

4. Drop your old name, whatever it is. Find a nice pseudonym and start again as a new writer. Sure, you'll get new-writer advances, maybe in the $5K range. Grow your career the old-fashioned way, by writing. Who knows? Maybe someday those earlier books of yours will be reprinted as "By Pseudonym (writing as Old Name)." Stranger things have happened.

5. When you get a big advance, put it in the bank.

6. Don't quit your day job.

Re: Practical advice

My advice would be, "Find someone who's built a working time machine. Go back in time. Keep yourself from writing an inadequately pseudonymous article in Salon which is sooner or later going to be identified as yours, and which is going to mark you forever in people's minds as a whiny drama queen and a commercial failure."

First Person

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier, so ill just ask it.

Im trying to write something now in first person, just playing around with it, but i realized that it was restrictive in a way. I knew it would be, but my question is:

Is it ok to tell more when writing first person because you have a limited perspective and because of the attitude of the narrator/main character?

My guy has borrowed some money from a drug dealer, so he is not the best person himself, has a temper and cusses sometimes. But I've found myself telling some things because thats how the main char tells the story.

Is this bad?

Beaver

Re: Practical advice

1st person can have more internal dialogues, contemplation, etc. Remember, the narrator is the character (major or minor) so you are writing in his/her voice and POV. If you want to be "stream of consciousness" so be it because you are telling the story from your (1st person) perspective.

You can also create a semi-reliable character in your 1st person, giving enough information (show) so that the readers know what is going on, but the character does not. That creates suspense. When you are writing about other characters in your book though, since you're limited in your 1st person POV (unless you're retelling a story long past so you're interpreting...) you would most likely want to show then tell: instead of saying, "Chaz is angry at me" you may have to show it -- "Chaz cusses and then punches me in the face."


Still, you need to balance the amount of details with how much "telling" you are doing. It is perfectly okay to TELL the readers that your character is feeling something: "I am angry." However, during rewrite, you may want to expand it and paint a vivid picture in the readers mind exactly how angry you are. You can still show to support your "telling" -- if you say, "I am so angry at him," you can now say, "I am so angry at him that if I had 10 fish hooks, I'd put 12 in his eyes."

Re: Practical advice

Beaver, to add to what Maestro said, just remember that when writing in first person, you cannot include ANYTHING that your point-of-view character does not know. I've seen some published books that say stuff like:

I looked at Bob. He thought I was crazy.

How would the POV character know what Bob was thinking? You'd have to re-word it more like:

I looked at Bob. He stared back like he thought I was crazy.

Despite the restrictions, first person can be much more emotionally charged. Have fun!

Re Salon's article

I had a good chuckle reading the Jane Austen Doe comments and all your replies. There is a but though. Countries like Eire (Ireland) offer their writers tax breaks, free travel, education and research perks and treasure them. Taking into account the expenses a publisher has publishing a book and what, if anything, they spend on marketing, I have to say that many writers do get paid on the low side.
Happy Writing

Re: Re Salon's article

For someone to enter a field notorious for its small financial rewards, unsteady prospects, and lack of recognition, then to complain about small financial rewards, unsteady prospects, and lack of recognition is ... well, many working writers who read that piece had reactions that consisted of laughing uproariously.

To call Ms. Doe's story a "tragedy" is rather overstating her misfortunes.

For that matter, it takes a certain amount of nerve on her part to call herself a "mid-list writer." She was certainly making front-list money.

Re: Salon's article

I bought a new house and a car less than three years old while earning an annual salary about 60% of what Salon lady averaged over the ten year period she's whining about. Even if she was considered underpaid in some circles, she earned more than enough to put food on the table and a roof over her head. Her complaining is pure selfish greed.

Salon's article

note to myself *when publishing house offers fabulous, unheard-of advance, I WILL give it back...at least some of it*

Jim, Is Ten Percent of Nothing one of yours, under a pseudonym?

Oh, also, the link to the book in your sig needs an "r" in percent...

(I really can't believe I'm mentioning that...)

Re: Salon's article

Nah, when publishing house offers an unheard-of advance, put it into CDs, with the maturity spread out so you can't spend it all at once.

10,000 sold hard and paper combined, after a $150,000 advance? That wasn't just a mess, that was a disaster. That was the point where she should have changed her name.

If you're the sort of author who sells 10,000 copies, you aren't the sort of author who makes six-figure advances. And this isn't new -- publishing didn't become a business just in the last ten years. Let me whisper to you.... publishing has always been a business.

<hr>

No, 10% of Nothing isn't one of mine; I don't even know the author (except by reputation). I just think that he's written an important book.

Flavors of first person

Beaver: I'm not sure what kinds of things your character is telling, so I can't say. But you might find it helpful to consider what kind of first-person you're doing: that is, who the narrator's talking to, and when. Would it be in-character to give that information under those circumstances?

Re: Salon's article

Okay, I can't help myself, I have to take one more cheap shot:

How many Jane Austen Doe's does it take to screw in a light bulb?

One, but she holds it still and waits for the world to revolve around her.

:grin

Salon

re the salon article, I found it very interesting, as a naive writer. It made me wonder a lot about why she writes. Seems like fame and big money are the incentive for her and that she has very little satisfaction from her good reviews. The tragedy here seems to me that she can say she has "adoring reviews" and still feels so dispirited about herself.

I thought being a good writer was the goal here (sigh, how utterly quaint.) Being a huge freaking success should be extra, right? How can it truly be your goal? Is it in your control as a writer? That seems to me like trying to be a painter and getting mad because your work, though brilliant, isn't auctioning off like Van Gogh's.

I see the advice offered here, on this site - of how to present your work to potential publishers - as just that. If we want our work to be seen and enjoyed by anyone other than our families and friends and make any sort of impact on the world (be it a tiny *poof* of dusty impact) then we do that best by getting published.

(In science , where I work for money - not much, but some - we "publish or perish" - right? There are lots of types of jobs that depend on producing information that will further other people's work. It is satisfying to see my name in print there, to be a "first author" but the thrill is not the goal, it can't be. The whole purpose is simply putting information, the best information I can produce, out there for others to use.)

If our goals are really the cranking out reams of pulpy money-making prose, seeing our names and pseudonyms in glowing lights, then that seems to me a very different sort of thing, kind of like hoping to grow up and be Julia Roberts. Nice work if you can get it, certainly not worth crying over.

Re: Salon's article

As much as we like to rip on Ms. Jane Austen Doe, I think we're getting off track. How about some more of those lessons, Uncle Jim?

Publishing's a business.

Sorry everyone, I'm not disagreeing. I think Jane Doe's complaints were over the top and James Mac is spot on.
BUT I do think the system is wrong. If publishers paid a set amount per book, like $5000, and paid writers a bigger percentage on every book sold then we would see more new writers published and a wider range of books published. When publishers lock up their cash in huge advances to a few everyone suffers. Readers miss out on a choice of books and more unusual/experimental/cross genre books to read. Good books often miss out on publication for longer than they should. New writers and mid-list writers struggle harder than they should have to in order to get published. I just don't feel that mega bucks advances are good for the publishing industry or writers.
Happy Writing.
Oh! Here's post script.
P.S. I bet all you guys are raging optimists and expect to be receiving mega bucks advances one day so you're all going to scream at me!

last thoughts

i've finally caught up with the posts and i wanted to give my last thoughts on the silly post. i think ms doe forgot that writing a book and publishing it is no different than one who produces a product and expects the producer to sell and market that product.
SHE needs to market the book not expect the publishers to do all the work. she should have taken the advice given by publishers who criticised her novels and followed their advice. SHE should have called the magazines and tried to obtain an interview. if she worked for such big named advertising firms, maybe she could have obtained their help, maybe look into her big-named connections. there's no end to the marketing possibilities she could have followed. i just hate it when people point their fingers at others for their problems. if she would have done the marketing herself she would probably sold more books. oh well, the world's full of whinners. like maestro said, back to the lessons.
kim

IMSO

none of this jane doe stuff, though i haven't read her piece or taken part, seems off track at all to me. we've been off on a lot less productive tangents, i think. anything that leads to the kind of deep reflection pina's post presents is, in my case, good. we may be done with it now, but i cannot task those that brought it up. we're talking about writing, and this was a part of it.

Re: IMSO

Nice epilogue, qatz.

So, to get back to lessons...Uncle Jim, we've been discussing sentences in another thread, how about some of your thoughts on stitching said sentences into paragraphs? I find myself struggling at times in revision, trying to figure out just where to hit the old ENTER key. I know you should try to contain a complete thought/idea, but perhaps you could elaborate?

Your humble (mostly) and attentive student...Chunky

paragraphs

I have an example paragraph that might be useful to look at. It begins a chapter and I try to set a scene, then bring us closer in before the dialogue starts. Right now I have it as one, but can't decide if I should break it in two with the general descriptions in a first paragraph, and Jayson's subjective experience in a second:

* * * * After the intensity of their meeting with the police, Sylvie and Jayson had both felt drawn to the peaceful isolation of the soporific river running through the centre of Georgetown, and they held hands as they sauntered along the bank. The air was warm, almost motionless, and thick with the buzz of insects--it smelled fresh and clean and alive. Several picayune puffs of cloud floated lazily far above, their edges razor sharp against the deep cyan of the late afternoon sky. Sol beat down virtually unimpeded and Jayson's scalp had begun to tingle as perspiration collected in his hair and slalomed down the sides of his head. He was glad of the sensation, it confirmed they were out of the confines of the police station and away from everything it signified. Sylvie walked beside him with her face turned toward the water as it gurgled past.
* * * * “Tell me more about your mother, Jayson.”

Click to expand...

Thoughts?

Re: IMSO

I can't wait for Uncle Jim so I'm jumping in (again, imagine this a great pool of salt):

When to break into paragraphs? For me there are a few things:
1. How does it sound? Sometimes when I want to make a point, I would separate the last sentence into a separate paragraph to really "punctuate" it. Give it more power. Eg:
.... blah blah... I don't know what to say. I have nothing to say to him.

Nothing.


2. If the logical unity of the sentences belongs in their own group, then I separate them as different paragraphs.

In your example, I would probably have broken them as follows:

After the intensity of their meeting with the police, Sylvie and Jayson had both felt drawn to the peaceful isolation of the soporific river running through the centre of Georgetown, and they held hands as they sauntered along the bank. The air was warm, almost motionless, and thick with the buzz of insects--it smelled fresh and clean and alive. Several picayune puffs of cloud floated lazily far above, their edges razor sharp against the deep cyan of the late afternoon sky. this paragraph describes the scene

Sol beat down virtually unimpeded and Jayson's scalp had begun to tingle as perspiration collected in his hair and slalomed down the sides of his head. He was glad of the sensation, it confirmed they were out of the confines of the police station and away from everything it signified. this parag describes his reaction

Sylvie walked beside him with her face turned toward the water as it gurgled past. this is Sylvie, so a separate paragraph

“Tell me more about your mother, Jayson.”

re: paragraphs

Maestro--so you see my example paragraph as three 'mini-scenes' (to use a movie analogy), as opposed to one shot slowly moving closer.

Scenes.

Well, no. It's the same scene. But to use your cinema lingos. There are different camera angles. The first parag is a long shot of the establishing scene. The second is a medium shot or close up of him sweating. The third is a medium shot of Sylvie. Then the dialogue, which usually starts in its own parag.

Chunky, it's all about style sometimes. I like shorter, succinct paragraphs -- like shooting a movie.. long, medium, close shots. However, some authors like to use longer, more complex paragraphs. I'd say do what your style dictates. I'm sure some people don't like my style, but then again, I can't please everyone.

Re: scenes

I getcha. Mini-scene wasn't really the right way to describe it.

Upon further reflection, I see one thing that was probably a big part of why I wasn't sure about it as one long paragraph, the final sentence just before Sylvie speaks. If we look at the 'establishing shot' as the furthest away the reader is being held, and Jayson's internal feelings as the closest, then the line about Sylvie walking beside him pulls the reader back a touch from where we had just brought them and therefore must be in its own paragraph, otherwise I'm ping-ponging between stand-off and intimate within one paragraph.

Would you say that any of this sort of movement should stay in one 'direction' within a paragraph, that a 'direction change' requires a new paragraph?