Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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Dancre

Re: the evolving paragraph

i think what i like about this paragraph as opposed to the other ones, is i get the sense that jayson's glad to be out of the prison and with his girlfriend. i get a sense of peace and tranquility. that was missing in the former ones. i also liked how she cut him off from his thoughts, dragging me back to the real world. and no big words. i didn't need to grab my dictionary.:tongue
kim
 

Dancre

Re: the evolving paragraph

i think what i like about this paragraph as opposed to the other ones, is i get the sense that jayson's glad to be out of the prison and with his girlfriend. i get a sense of peace and tranquility. that was missing in the former ones. i also liked how she cut him off from his thoughts, dragging me back to the real world. and no big words. i didn't need to grab my dictionary.:tongue
kim
 

HConn

Re: the evolving paragraph

Chunk, that's a big improvement.

It would be even better with fewer prepositional phrases.
 

maestrowork

Re: the evolving paragraph

I know we have a "share your work" area, but if anyone wants to start our own mini virtual writer's group, I'm game. We can critique each other's work every week (or a few days) via email. Or we can set up critique circle accounts. Anyway, I think that would be fun.
 

wwwatcher

simultaneous submissions

Jim

Can you just clarify for me what the publisher means when they say no simultaneous submissions? This has come up on another board and I just want to make sure I have it straight.

Thanks
Faye
 

ChunkyC

Re: the evolving paragraph

Thanks HConn. That paragraph started out as 153 words out of a 124,000 word novel. And folks wonder why it sometimes takes years to write one.

Maestro, I'm game. :D
 

Salve Ghostwalker

Re: the evolving paragraph

'no simultaneous submissions'

I'm not Jim but this is an easy one:

A market that states 'no simultaneous submissions' is saying "Don't send your story or novel to anyone else while we're looking at it."

There are markets which allow simultaneous submissions, but they're often lower paying, slow-responding markets.

I suspect that Xerox photocopiers originally caused such a big deal to be made about simultaneous subs. The invention of the photocopier allowed writers to crank out multiple copies of their work--even long novels. Previously, writers had to rely on carbons for copies, and they simply couldn't mass produce copies of their work without going to extremes or great expense. Prior to the invention of the photocopier, I doubt that simultaneous subs were much of a problem.

Nowadays, with the majority of writers using printers, it's simple to make 'multiple 'copies' as good as the 'original', so the quality isn't an issue (photocopies, especially early ones, smudged easily). Basically, today's editors are just trying to avoid the many headaches of simultaneous subs. They don't want to deal with the extra subs, or with the additional volume of mail they'd receive from people withdrawing stories after they've sold elsewhere, etc. They also don't want to be told they can't buy a story that they've already invested their time and energy in.
 

James D Macdonald

Simultaneous Submissions

You can learn whether a market accepts these (and whether they accept reprints, and much else) from their guidelines.

The first thing to know is that publishing is a buyer's market. That this is an unhappy thing for the sellers (we writers) should be obvious.

Next, you need to know that if a work is publishable by one it is publishable by many.

When a publisher buys a book, it isn't just some editor somewhere who reads it, loves it, and buys it all in the same day.

That editor will have to present the book to an editorial review board, pitch it to the publisher, work out a profit and loss statement, and find a hole in the schedule (arrived at with the other editors). Those other things will have to happen before the offer is made. If those things are done for a book that's no longer available (since if it is publishable by one it's publishable by many, the same process may be happening or already have happened across town), that's time and money wasted, alone with the editor's prestige among the other editors at the house.

Thus, publishers do not like simultaneous submissions. If you simsub and you're good enough to be published I guarantee that you'll be caught. (If you aren't good enough to be published, no one will ever know.)

The exception to this is the auction. This is agent territory. If you have a hot book by a hot author, the agent may select a few publishers who are likely to Really Want This Book, call them on the phone, and say "I'm auctioning this work." What that means is that the one who comes up with the best offer is allowed to publish it. Happy you! (Unless the book subsequently tanks, then Unhappy You, and it's time to pick a nice pseudonym.)
 

maestrowork

Re: simultaneous submissions

But doesn't that create a "disadvantage" for the writer? I mean the editor may take a few weeks or even months to evaluate a ms, then she'd say "not for me." Meanwhile, the writer can't submit anywhere else and four months later, he's back to zero.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: simultaneous submissions

Yep, that's a disadvantage for the writer. Life's not fair.

That's part of what "buyer's market" means.

But what's your hurry? Are you in a rush to get as many rejections as possible? You sent your manuscript to a particular market because, out of all the hundreds of publishers out there who haven't yet rejected this manuscript, these are the guys you want to see publish your book. Right?
 

maestrowork

Re: simultaneous submissions

Life is not fair and that's part of the frustration of being a writer. The stake is high because you're already targeting a very specific publisher. You invest a lot in your ms, target specific publishers, wait a few months, then they turn you down. And you're back to zero. The rejection would be very hard to take if you don't have the right mindset. Some people would think "my clock is ticking" and "it's too hard" and give up. But if you have the right mindset and lower your "expectations" then you may have a better time accepting it and move on (working on your next project; send out another submission)... I suppose for a writer, the "expectation management" is the hard part -- how not to get crushed. Some ms has to wait 10, 20 years to be published. The right time, the right place, the right material.

It can be very frustrating.
 

troutwaxer

Much Better!!

<blockquote>
Quote:Sweat slalomed down Jayson's scalp and tickled the creases behind his ears before soaking into the collar of his shirt. It didn't matter. In fact, he welcomed it. He tilted his head back and squinted at the few puffs of cloud spoiling the perfection of the late afternoon sky...much better than the naked bulbs in the ceiling of the interview room...much better to be hand-in-hand with Sylvie, feet crunching on gravel, the air warm and clean and thick with the buzzing of insects as the Bow River gurgled across the rocky bottom next to them--

"Tell me more about your mother, Jayson."

"Huh?"
</blockquote>

Much better. You've got it!

T.
 

maestrowork

Re: simultaneous submissions

Yeah Chunky, much better -- now you're evoking strong, relevant imageries coming from Jayson's POV. Bravo.

I still have trouble with "thick with the buzz of insects" though. I just can't connect "thick" with fresh, clean air. My mind gets stuck there.
 

ChunkyC

Re: simultaneous submissions

I know what you're getting at, Maestro, thick is tactile, but buzz is auditory. I hope readers will link the word thick with sound as in a large volume of insect noises all around them.

Again, thanks all for your input. This has been unbelievably educational for me.
 

James D Macdonald

Another Round-up Post

The best of HapiSofi:

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=301.topic" target="_new">Lee Shore Literary Agency</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=310.topic" target="_new">Need Advice</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=222.topic&start=28&stop=28" target="_new">Agents Charging Fees</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm31.showMessage?topicID=205.topic" target="_new">Sex Scenes (...How?)</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=257.topic&start=623&stop=623" target="_new">Sex Scenes, version II</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=257.topic&start=788&stop=788" target="_new">Typesetting</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=28.topic&start=82&stop=82" target="_new">1st Books was OK</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=257.topic&start=243&stop=243" target="_new">Prologues</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=257.topic&start=546&stop=546" target="_new">Midbooks</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=257.topic&start=165&stop=165" target="_new">Tone</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.topic&start=361&stop=380" target="_new">PA Authors</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=210.topic&start=61&stop=65" target="_new">ST Comments I Love It!</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=190.topic&start=141&stop=160" target="_new">All PublishAmerica Titles are in the Library of Congress</a>

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessageRange?topicID=267.topic&start=1&stop=20" target="_new">Decent Typesetting</a>
 

allion

At the risk of bringing up "Jane Austen Doe" again

Salon.com printed letters received in response to the article and you don't have to watch an ad to read them. The one that expressed things best for me was from Lydia Joyce:

"I mean, this is a woman who got an advance on her first book of more than $100,000. Forget midlist. Many bestsellers top out at $100k per book.

In excitement about this book, her publisher promoted her hugely. She got the Big Push most of us dream about, publicity, radio spots, tours, TV.

And guess what? She still sold all of 10,000 copies.

Now, after that kind of publicity, I have only one conclusion: The general population believes that she sucks. And I don't have much sympathy."

It was good to see comment from Jane Yolen and Elizabeth Moon as well.

FWIW
 

wwwatcher

Re: simultaneous submissions

Thanks for the inside info. It's good to know the process they go through.

I think I got a reply once where the editor had taken it through and they didn't like it. She hinted in her reply.

Getting caught would be dang embarrassing wouldn't it!!!!!!!:eek:

Faye
 

wwwatcher

submissions

There is a discussion going on Children writer’s board that started with simultaneous submissions and is now touching on multiple submissions, unsolicited manuscripts, unagented material, over the transom, and the pros and cons of letting the editor know that something was requested.

It’s a debate that’s getting kind of confusing for new writers. Do you have a short, sweet version of all of these Uncle Jim? Or a place that the answers can be found?

Here’s the thread if you want to check out the hive of activity.
pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolu...=131.topic

:eek
 

maestrowork

Re: simultaneous submissions

The way I understand it:

1. No unsolicited ms
Meaning you must query first. If they request the ms, then it is now "solicited."

2. No simultaneous submission
Meaning if they request the ms, you should not send it to someone else until you hear back from them. It will speed up the process.
Some publisher/agent also calls it "prefer to read exclusively."

3. No multiple submission
Meaning "don't submit more than one work to us."


I think usually unless they say it's okay to send a query plus plus sample plus outline, etc., you should always just send a query first. If they request the material, then it is solicited. If they prefer to read it exclusively, don't send to other agents. That may perhaps speed things up a bit.

I have an ignorant question: how do slush piles work? What are they? How do they work against or for a writer?

Thanks,
M
 

James D Macdonald

Re: submissions

Simultaneous submission: You send the same piece to two or more publishers at the same time. Unless the market's guidelines specifically say this is okay with them, don't do it. Once you've submitted to a market, it's theirs until they either buy it, reject it, or you send them a letter withdrawing the work.

Multiple submission: Two or more pieces to the same market at the same time. If the guidelines say don't, then don't. Otherwise it's okay, but probably not your cleverest plan. (You wind up competing with yourself.)

Unsolicited: The editor didn't ask to see it. If you see a market say "No unsolicitied submissions," all that means is "send a query letter first." Don't forget your SASE.

Unagented: You don't have an agent submitting your work. Some publishers say "No unagented works." If you don't have an agent, this isn't a market for you. DO NOT GO OUT AND SEND MONEY TO SOME SCAMMER JUST TO GET AROUND THIS! THAT TRICK NEVER WORKS!

BTW, traditional publishing is very open to talented newcomers. See here for example.
 

SRHowen

want to add

that none of this applies to queries except the "no un-agented submissions, and no multiple submissions."

They apply to requested material.

And a side note--DO NOT ever EVER decide to send your sub to another editor at the same place while one editor is looking at your work. (had a writer do this because he didn't like what I told him he had to fix in his work so he was working with me and with another editor on the same piece. Of course we get together before the magazine goes on-line--of course he got caught) (and we do know other on-line and some print magazine editors--do you think we don't talk to them either?)

Shawn
 
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