Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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Hannibal

Aye

I see. I got the idea. :) Well here where i live there will be a novell contest and i will join i think. It must be min 2 max 20 pages long. I can make that :) Whis me luck :D


Oh and sorry for grammer...I'm from hungary ... my english is not the finest :)
 

Betty W01

Re: Question

M, I like your analogy. I don't write novels, but if I did, your trip map idea sounds promising. At least, better than an outline, which the mere thought of causes me to go into a coma |I
 

qatz

Well, and Hannibal

Good luck to you, my friend. Tell us how Hungary is some time when you have more leisure.

PS. Betty, thanks for letting me know my most effective weapon if I ever get mad at you again .... the old Outlines Article!!! Bwahhahahahah!
 

SRHowen

Outline--outa

I do not outline, and I have written 9 books now that way. NO they are not published--yet, my agent is working on that.

If you have an idea and running with it seems the right thing to do--go with it. If outlining seems the right thing to do--then outline.

You have to find what works for you.

Shawn
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Outline--outa

I've gone into outlining several times upthread.

Basically, the old Roman numeral/letters/numbers outline style is particularly useless for novels, IMHO.

I like things a lot more organic.

The roadtrip/map idea is interesting, and might be useful. As long as you aren't doing it literally.

The way to finish a work is to set aside a time every day during which you do nothing but write. You don't have permission to stop for any reason, or to rewrite, until you've reached THE END. This too is explained in more detail upthread.

While I'm sure details about life in Hungary would be fascinating, I don't think this is the thread to put them in.
 

Hannibal

Hi

Thx for good wishes friend ;-) Well besides uncle jim-s words i would like to write an anecdote here. Hungary is like pizza, if you eat it the first time, you find it amizing, when you eat too much your stomec will acke :) It's good until you live here :) Uncle Jim i thank you for the advise i will take it. I have to pick some time thouth me school steals all of it :( Well but i finish this year and will have all the time :) Besides i'm 23 years old :) Can i be a writer at this age ? Bye all have to go!
 

Stephenie Hovland

Re: Outline

Hannibal. Go up to "search" and type in "outline." You'll find plenty of links there. Also Go back and read this thread from the beginning to the end. You will find answers.

BTW, people outline differently. There isn't one correct answer.


Now, go look.

Stephenie
 

Chris Goja

Self-publishing and print-on-demand

Hi Jim et al.

I thought I'd share a few thoughts with you on print-on-demand and self-publishing. Now, I know that it is generally frowned upon, and that it is seen as a second rate way of getting rubbish published that would normally not find its way out of the slush piles even with the help of a good hemorrhoid cream (think about it.), but I would argue that there are exceptions.

I have published a book myself with the help of an internet-based PoD company, because I wanted to give my father a book written by me on his 60th birthday, and there was no way that I was going to get it accepted by an agent, let alone a publisher in the time available to me before his big day (a few months), if ever - the book is approximately a hundred pages of rhymed viking saga in Swedish, in case you were wondering - and so I swallowed my pride and went to them.

The book was published and presented to dad amidst great rejoicing, and that could have been the end of things, but a couple of really good reviews later (there are publications in Sweden reviewing virtually every new book that hits the market, for the benefit of libraries and bookstores. I don't know if this is true elsewhere.) and all of a sudden my sales are well into triple digits.

I know that may not sound like much to most of you, but in a small market like Sweden, and taking into account that nothing is as difficult to market as poetry, this is not bad. Besides, it doesn't really matter to me that I'm never going to make much money out of it - just seeing the book in a library or in a bookstory gives me a buzz like I-dunno-what, and it would never have happend if it weren't for self-publishing!

Sure, if you write something that is more easily digestible for the dread Market, then by all means go to the agents and get them to sell your book for you, all I'm saying is: there are other ways, too.


Cheers,

Chris
 

James D Macdonald

General Comments

Sure, Chris, there are exceptions. Publishing in general is one big exception.

You had a good, valid reason to self-publish. You wanted a limited number of copies by a certain date. That your book sold outside of your immediate family is a plus.

Poetry is one of the genres where self-publication is traditional.

As far as using PoD self-publication or vanity publication as a way to reach the general reading public, though ... I wouldn't recommend it. "The race is not to the swift nor the victory to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets."

<hr>

Note on my use of the word "genre" here. There are four genres: Poetry, rhetoric, drama, and fiction.

<hr>

In other depressing news, the Garfield movie novelization is out. Those of you who have been trying to perfect your craft, and finding the frustration of submitting/rejection/submitting again wearing on the nerves will look at that book (or, worse still, try to read it ... a prize to anyone who makes it all the way to the end of chapter one!) and despair.

That book reads like it was written by a pro over the course of a long weekend, fueled by a pot of coffee and a case of beer; either that or it was written by the producer's cousin who always wanted to write a book.

That book was not published because it was an outstanding piece of literature. It was published because a Hollywood movie gets a novel (paid for out of the advertising budget). Pay no attention to this; it's not part of the set of things that are under your control. Rather, think that the money Hollywood paid to have that book published will help pay your advance, and the money Hollywood is paying the bookstores for placement of that book will help pay the salaries of the clerks who will recommend your book to their customers.

And think that if you get a reputation as a writer who's easy to work with, who can reliably hit deadlines and come in on-length, that someday you may be the pro who gets that movie deal; a five figure advance for a long weekend's work, fueled by coffee and beer.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: ohh

An outline is a planning document. Some people find them useful in constructing a novel.
 

maestrowork

Re: Outline

An associate of mine write those books. Seven days after the OJ trial verdict he completed a book for his editor... he wrote 24/7, living on coffee and cigarettes for a whole week. He also wrote books on many "current events." Pay was good -- but I don't envy his lifestyle. He was basically a writing machine. He doesn't like to write much anymore.

Yes, I tell myself I am going to be a novelist. But not at the expense of my creativity and happiness and enjoyment as a writer.

p.s. Uncle J, did you read the companion book to "Terminator 3"? Talk about depressive...
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Outline

Uncle J, did you read the companion book to "Terminator 3"?

I darn-near wound up writing it. But ... it didn't look like the fun-to-money ratio was right on that one, and based on what I heard afterward I was right. Dodged the bullet on that one.
 

Hannibal

Well well

Thx for the word definition. Can i some where take a look at your works ? I would like to see what kind of books you folks write...Or if i can't see them then pls tell me a short tale of them :)
 

Chris Goja

Companion books

I thought the companion book to "The Godfather" was pretty good...


*running for cover*



Just kidding, people!
 

Chris Goja

Vaguely related to companion books

On a more serious note, Jim, I was wondering what your thoughts are on fan fiction; some writers seem to loath it, others laud it, and most just seem to apply the ostrich technique to the whole issue. Do you see any merits in it? And, more to the point, would you consider it if sent as part of an application to VP?

I have personally written quite a few fantasy stories set in/on Terry Pratchett's Discworld, and if nothing else I feel that this can be a good way of findig your own style - you get away from the problem of creating characters from scratch, and can consentrate on other elements, such as plot and story...

Again, no money in this, since it can't be published without violating intellectual property rights, of course - and I realise that I'm starting to sound like a communist here, with all my non-commercial stuff - but still lots of fun to be had, in my not-so-humble opinion.


Chrisx
 

Yeshanu

I finally did it!

I just finished cutting and pasting all of the bits of this thread that I personally found relevant. :snoopy FYI, the document is 97 pages long.:jump

Ruth
 

evanaharris

yesh:

good things come to those who wait. There's currently a massive project going on to compile the thread into indexed website form.

(shrugs) glad you got it, though.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Vaguely related to companion books

My thoughts on fan fiction?

Well, why not ask me to walk through a minefield instead?

It can be useful when you're practicing at home alone, when you're doing exercises creating plots using predefined characters. However ... that's for you, at home.

You'll eventually have to create your own characters, too. Why not now?

As far as submission material to Viable Paradise, I would rather see something of your own, even if it's less polished, rather than a fan piece.
 

maestrowork

Re: Vaguely related to companion books

Pardon my ignorance, what exactly is fan fiction?
 

evanaharris

Re: Vaguely related to companion books

Maestro, fan fiction is new stories based around pre-established characters. Take the Star Wars novels as examples of fan-fiction that actually gets George Lucas' stamp of approval.

Most of it's pretty bad. (Harry Potter erotica, anyone?) But some of it can be okay. Like Jim said, it's alright to do it for practice, but why not make up your own characters?
 

ChunkyC

Re: fanfic

The fan fiction thing can get pretty weird. I'm aware of a line of fanfic erotica stories based on Mr. Spock from Star Trek.

Don't ask me how I know that. :grin
 

James D Macdonald

Re: fanfic

I'm aware of a line of fanfic erotica stories based on Mr. Spock from Star Trek.

A goodly number of them featuring Mr. Spock and Captain Kirk as gay lovers. Let's not get into a big discussion of fanfic, okay?

People write it. It's okay for you to write it, if you're doing it as an exercise in story construction and plot, where you don't have to come up with your own original characters and backgrounds. Just don't publish it.

(Yes, yes, I know all about the parody and fair-use defenses in copyright infringement suits. This isn't the time or place to discuss them. If you want to write and publish fan fiction, what you do is become a professional writer, then let it be known to the people who own the rights that, if they want to have a novel set in some TV or movie world, you're available. There are lines of Star Trek and Star Wars novels. (In earlier times there were Bonanza novels, Man From U.N.C.L.E. novels, and Brady Bunch novels. I kid you not.) I don't think that J. K. Rowling will want anyone to write a line of Harry Potter novels for her, but hey, stranger things have happened.)

First, work on your own stories: your own characters, your own situations.
 
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