Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

characters

Q is good. At the end, it is always the characters that you care about -- the plot means nothing if you don't care about the people. Dinosaurs eat people. Oooh, ahhh, well... who cares? But if Dinosaurs eat ex-wife. Now that's something.

Re: well, of course mac is right

not to interrupt the flow of writing-discussion, but I'm still experiencing computer technical difficulties...but the ad-aware thing is REALLY cool...I'll heartily endorse it. Beats the heck out of staying up all night with your manuals, searching for exe files you don't recognize...

meanwhile, since my word perfect is malfunctioning, the file is on its way to Q, who is confident he can convert it and email it to Uncle Jim...

It sounds as if Uncle Jim has been reading slush again.

Mac

Re: Using 'ideas' already published

Hi All,

I've been lurking around reading this thread for a few days now, and finally decided to asked a question I haven't seen referenced here, or anywhere else that I can tell.

When does an idea/concept used in a story become 'public domain'?

For example, take vampires...we've all hear the theories of what they can and can't do, and most are generally accepted as standard now. But specifically, take the idea that vampires can't see their reflection in a mirror. Could someone else use that idea in their own book if it was a new concept?

I asked this because I'm almost finished with my first novel, and a friend of mine, who also happens to help critique my writing, gave me a novel she recently found...and my idea (which I proudly thought was original :smack ) was used in a book already published.

Now I'm not sure I can publish (positive thinking here) without violating this other persons copyrights. I'm really bummed about this, but I'm hoping/wondering if since this is a concept (like the mirror example above) and not the whole story---is it okay??

Are there any rules governing this? Or am I just out of luck with my book? (And just to clarify...I'm not looking for legal advice. Just general practices, rules, and guidelines that are considered standard within the writing community).

Thanks, and btw, I love this website! Great stuff here!!!

Online quiz

Oh, jeez. I'm a mystery writer. A bit of a surprise, considering I write surreal fantasy :eek

Mind you, I love reading mysteries, but I always thought I was incapable of writing one. Maybe now I'll pluck up the courage. Nothing like a good murderous bad guy... :hat

Redundancies

Outside the window she heard a redundant owl.

Uncle Jim, I wonder if you collect these things? Some collection it must be!

Maybe you could share a few more? :coffee

Mystery

So write a surreal fantasy mystery! Should be an interesting read, at least...

I, too, am a mystery writer, according to that test. And I do always like to keep a little bit of mystery back until at least half way through my stories... the identity of the primary villain in my current novel, the fact that the gods aren't really gods in my next one. It may be a cliche, but at least that means nobody will struggle to adjust to it

And I think a redundant owl is one that no longer has a job.

Ideas

Di -- you can't really copyright an idea. Copyright applies to entire stories, so you can't just rip them off wholesale, but the concepts behind them aren't really copyrightable.

That's not to say you can always get away with it though. A story that's too derivitive might be unpublishable because everyone who reads it thinks it's too much like <some well known story>.

But as long as what you're writing is at least a new twist on the old concept, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Ideas

You cannot copyright ideas and concepts. You can only copyright your story or treatment (outline, etc.)

The only thing you have to ask yourself: Is your story unique enough to stand on it's own? Is your story/treatment original despite the common idea? If your ideas/plot/story/characters are so close to the other book, then you need to re-evaluate your originality.

E.g. A volcano blows up and destroy a whole town. Same idea, two different movies: "Dante Peak" and "Volcano."

Mystery=Plotting

What I DO love about mysteries is that they have to have a watertight plot by definition. And I'm here hoping to learn proper plotting first of all.

There was a question in that quiz, about mentioning a colour, and one of the answers was, Does it advance the plot? This is my idea of good writing. I remember when I was a kid I was reading a novella by Clifford Simac and how impressed I was when I came to the end and discovered that every piece of information mentioned in the beginning actually backfired in the climax! That was the day I realized I wanted to do such things, too.

Color and Plot

Well, to me, plot isn't everything (that's why I am a character/dialogue writer :b ).

Not every word has to advance the plot. Uncle Jim said: it must either advance the plot, develop the character, or add to the theme. "Color" would be such thing. Of course, it'd be great if it could achieve all three. For example, I think this would make a wonderful first paragraph of a novel or short story:

"Her favorite color is red: rose, fuchsia, crimson. Blood. Like the color on her hands now."

Colour and Plot

Well, to me, plot isn't everything (that's why I am a character/dialogue writer ).

Oh, absolutely. There're such irresistible things as character, style and atmosphere. And dialogue.


What I probably meant was what I wanted to learn. I admire plotting skills because I seem to have none to begin with. My plotting sucks big time. I'm here watching and listening to you all trying to figure out how to pull my own stories together. At the moment, they have way more style and atmosphere about them than actually story.

Plotting

My plotting sucks big time.

Click to expand...

Why? What stops you from devicing good plot?

I like the book "Plot: Elements of Fiction Writing" by Ansen Dibell. You may want to pick up a copy from your local library.

Re: sentence clarity

Outside the window she heard a redundant owl.

Click to expand...

If I was reading this sentence in a story, I'd also like to know if it is the owl, or she, who is outside the window. Love these succinct lessons, Uncle Jim.

Ideas

I think if "she" was outside the window it would need a comma.

Aside: Every time I post here with a different subject line, Mozilla adds a new entry to the stored login details it offers to let me use... g

Character and Plot

He's an ungodly albino cop whom everyone believes is mad. She's an orphaned thirtysomething barmaid from a secret island of warrior women.

Those are the characters.

They fight crime!

That's the plot.

<hr>

Together those make story.

<hr>

Plotting

What stops you from devicing good plot?

Thanks a lot for the book, I think I must check it. Well, usually I get this feeling about my characters and the place they're in. And the climax, of course -- I can see the scene. But I've got no idea how to get them there (how to take the horse to the water) and for what reasons they're going to participate in this gorgeous scene called climax. A big gap. Sometimes, like with my last WIP, a breakthrough happens through the hero's characterization, but usually I just don't seem to be able to think coldly and logically. g

Re: Plotting

Fresie, have you tried either the Positional Chess method or the Celtic Knotwork method of plotting?

Celtic Knotwork

Fresie, have you tried either the Positional Chess method or the Celtic Knotwork method of plotting?

I really meant to ask you about the Celtic Knotwork, Uncle Jim, but I didn't dare because I haven't finished reading the thread yet and I thought maybe you say more about it in the pages I haven't read. In fact, I'm fascinated by this idea and I can see how it refers to plotting, too. I can see that the threads are different storylines all intertwined and connected, but I wondered if you could give some concrete example how a certain pattern might refer to a story told in this pattern?

On the contrary, I understand the chess analogy perfectly well, but I'm just not a very good chess player because I can't make myself confront and fight other people, even on a chess board. :cry

But the Celtic Knotwork, I really love this one and intend to sit down tonight (I only read about it this afternoon) and see how I can apply it. Still, could you please explain it a bit more, in connection with actual writing, maybe?

Thank you!

Fresie

Re: Celtic Knotwork

For the chess analogy -- you don't need to play others. Work out the example games in Logical chess and understand why the moves are made.

<hr>

Celtic knotwork. Gracious. This is hard to do without pictures, but I'll try.

Construct a nice bit of knotwork, using your favorite method.

Let's do a nice linear border-kind of knot. It starts there to the left, runs to the right.

You have various <a href="http://www.entrelacs.net/en.5.php" target="_new">walls</a> in place to make it interesting.

Now ... over there at the far right, is your climax, right? Who's there? Name the strands that pass through the climax with those people's names. I hope that you have two left-over strands, because we're going to name them for themes, one positive one negative (Honor/deceit for example).

Now color the lines back to the beginning, using different colors.

The opening scene will have those characters who arrive at the beginning (due to walls and such, some characters who were at the end may not arrive at the beginning. Add in different characters for those few).

Now, decide how long your chapters are going to be. Say you're doing thirty ten-page chapters.

Divided the braid into thirty segments.

Look at each segment. Which strand is on top? Which strands are mostly covered? Which are in the foreground? Which are moving most rapidly across the knot?

Those are your chapters, there is your focus, there is your motion.

Now, dream.

Dream, and type.

Someday soon, I may talk about how to use filecards.

Re: Plotting

All these methods (celtic knotwork, chess, road trip, etc.) all point to one thing: movement. Plot is about movement: how do you move a set of characters and "things" through time/space to reach your destination (climax)?

Put your characters in a situation/place and have them do something. If you know the "feel" of these characters, then let them loose. The important thing is, have them do something that has consequences -- consequences lead to plot. If you just have people sit around talking about feelings and stuff, you will find it hard to "move" them, unless, in your dialogue you indicate movement, such as:

"I don't love you anymore."
"In that case, I am moving to Paris with your only child."
"You can't do that!"
"Watch me."
-- consequences... your next plot would happen in Paris, for example, when one character chases after the other. Or, in the bedroom when one character is murdered... so many different options, depending on your story, theme and ending.


As your characters do things that lead to consequences, you will get a better feel of where they should be in the next scenes. If you have multiple treads (celtic knotwork), explore those threads, intercutting between them. The point is, move them along that line toward end goal.

Again, it's all about movement.

Use everything you can to create movements: props (clocks, money, airline tickets, bomb, sexy underwear...), characters (somebody does something that prompts more actions..), dialogue (to indicate directions, intention that lead to action), conflicts (conflict almost always result in actions)...

Re: Plotting

Wow. Thank you so much, Uncle Jim, and you, maestro. I think I'm beginning to understand what it's about and looks like I'm going to love it. Now I need to have a good think. 8o

BTW, I got so inspired that I borrowed a chess set from neighbors' and played a game with my hubby. First, it didn't hurt as much as I thought it would and I discovered I could actually think straight and plan ahead (hurraah!!). Second, my hubby was pleasantly surprised I wanted us to do something together instead of turning my back on him to write, as I usually do. To make it even more pleasant for him, I let him win.

The Assignment

Ok, my friends,

I've posted the first three chapters over at Share Your Work, and any and all comments are very welcome, before I present it to Jim for editing.... *knee tremble*

Thanx.

Chris



P.S. The working title is Silent Knight. If anyone has any better suggestion I'd appreciate it.

Re: The Assignment

Chris's story is <a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm31.showMessage?topicID=285.topic" target="_new">here</a>.

Plotting and Story Questions

Hi all

Having lurked for far too long without contributing anything, I'd like to say a huge thank you to all the clever people who've added so much to my understanding of what it takes to write a novel.

On the question of plotting, I recently read a book (by Jack Bickham) which said each scene should have a scene question which fits into the overarching story question. As far as I can understand, this helps with momentum and consistency and theme.

Like, the story question is will she save the boy from attack by aliens and the first scene question is "Will she come to believe in aliens in time?" and the trick is to answer each scene question with a kind of twist. So she doesn't believe in aliens, but still takes the right first steps to save the boy. I hope I'm making sense.

Anyway, for me, checking that each of my major scenes is actually serving a purpose, and a purpose related to the driving story question, is proving really useful. I guess you can tell from this note, I waffle.

Cheers

Jenny

Re: Plotting and Story Questions

Yes. Every scene (not just the major ones, every one) needs to serve a purpose in your book.

You wouldn't glue a flowerpot to the hood of your car and tie a bedframe to the back bumper, just because you happened to have a flowerpot and a bedframe, would you?

Anything that fails to contribute to the story detracts from it.