Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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James D Macdonald

Re: Jim

Please obtain permission from the other posters. Everyone owns copyright to their own words.
 

paritoshuttam

Re: Scene

That was fascinating, Uncle Jim. I had run a cursory eye over the story the first time I read it. But after reading the detailed explanation below, I had to re-read it slowly.

How many drafts does it take you to get to this level of detail and symbolism and cutting out the parts that do not move the story forward?

And do you go in any definite sequence: removing the extraneous parts in the first pass; putting in description or details to add to the characters' depth in the second; and then the symbolism? Or is the major part accomplished in the first draft itself, and there is very little pruning or addition you have to do later? Also, how quickly to you go back to revise?

Sorry, lots of questions! :hail

Thanks,
Paritosh.
 

christinedg

Re: Jim

I think compiling this thread is a great idea! I was just thinking about how to do that this weekend, in fact. It seems that with each of my questions, someone has referred me to this thread and I remind myself to devote a day to reading the whole darn thing. I just don't have a day to do it, though!

It's a great idea. Would it be stored here somewhere?

Oops, I got my threads mixed up. I meant to add this to the other thread on compiling this thread . . . clear as mud.
 

pdr

teaching

Thank you for that permission. I don't teach writing in as nice a place as you do, Jim. One day though I will when my own Arts Centre is finished. Until then I teach my own courses at Adult Education Centres and Art Centres, Arts Colleges, High School Adult Classes and Polytechnics. Writers' groups often ask me to do an intensive weekend with them. Right now I'm doing bilingual teaching in Japan! Your short story analysis will be perfect for that group.
 

James D Macdonald

On Core Dumps

"It's the exposition, darling. I has to go somewhere."

<HR>

First, from Shakespeare's Henry V, Act I scene ii:

CANTERBURY

Then hear me, gracious sovereign, and you peers,
That owe yourselves, your lives and services
To this imperial throne. There is no bar
To make against your highness' claim to France
But this, which they produce from Pharamond,
'In terram Salicam mulieres ne succedant:'
'No woman shall succeed in Salique land:'
Which Salique land the French unjustly gloze
To be the realm of France, and Pharamond
The founder of this law and female bar.
Yet their own authors faithfully affirm
That the land Salique is in Germany,
Between the floods of Sala and of Elbe;
Where Charles the Great, having subdued the Saxons,
There left behind and settled certain French;
Who, holding in disdain the German women
For some dishonest manners of their life,
Establish'd then this law; to wit, no female
Should be inheritrix in Salique land:
Which Salique, as I said, 'twixt Elbe and Sala,
Is at this day in Germany call'd Meisen.
Then doth it well appear that Salique law
Was not devised for the realm of France:
Nor did the French possess the Salique land
Until four hundred one and twenty years
After defunction of King Pharamond,
Idly supposed the founder of this law;
Who died within the year of our redemption
Four hundred twenty-six; and Charles the Great
Subdued the Saxons, and did seat the French
Beyond the river Sala, in the year
Eight hundred five. Besides, their writers say,
King Pepin, which deposed Childeric,
Did, as heir general, being descended
Of Blithild, which was daughter to King Clothair,
Make claim and title to the crown of France.
Hugh Capet also, who usurped the crown
Of Charles the duke of Lorraine, sole heir male
Of the true line and stock of Charles the Great,
To find his title with some shows of truth,
'Through, in pure truth, it was corrupt and naught,
Convey'd himself as heir to the Lady Lingare,
Daughter to Charlemain, who was the son
To Lewis the emperor, and Lewis the son
Of Charles the Great. Also King Lewis the Tenth,
Who was sole heir to the usurper Capet,
Could not keep quiet in his conscience,
Wearing the crown of France, till satisfied
That fair Queen Isabel, his grandmother,
Was lineal of the Lady Ermengare,
Daughter to Charles the foresaid duke of Lorraine:
By the which marriage the line of Charles the Great
Was re-united to the crown of France.
So that, as clear as is the summer's sun.
King Pepin's title and Hugh Capet's claim,
King Lewis his satisfaction, all appear
To hold in right and title of the female:
So do the kings of France unto this day;
Howbeit they would hold up this Salique law
To bar your highness claiming from the female,
And rather choose to hide them in a net
Than amply to imbar their crooked titles
Usurp'd from you and your progenitors.

<hr>

Now read the same speech, translated into Damon Runyon-speak by Mike Ford.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Scene

paritoshuttam:

That was, I think, four drafts.

First, I get the big outline of the story down. I throw in lots of stuff while writing; later I'll remove things that don't turn out to be important.

If I mention some object in the opening, the readers will expect me to use that same object in a meaningful way at the end.

I look at the end to make sure that everything that's been used there has been adequately mentioned earlier.

I make sure the tension/action curve is moving in the right direction.

(Take that seance. I mention that it's going to happen, in the scene you read. Then comes a one-two-three: We hear about it, it's a description in a letter. This is lower-tension. Next we hear, it's being described verbally. Third seance scene: We witness a recreation of that seance, and watch it live, in person, right in the room. That seance forms the center point of the story; it's a breaking point, and from that we go into a brief valley, then swoop up to the top of the climax.)
 

Chris Goja

Taking it to the next level...

Hey Jim,

Very interesting to see your comments on what you wrote. It'd be equally interesting to be able to follow the process through the various drafts, to see what you add/subtract, and when. But maybe that's just me...

Now, I'm nearing the end of my little Canossa trip, and I was wondering how you would like to deal with the Assignment (if at all): Before, I thought maybe I'd ask you to edit it - to the benefit of all your ardent followers here - but since you are now providing that particular service to people for money, it may not be something that'd interest you. What do you reckon?

Chris
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Taking it to the next level...

Chris, is your story Absolutely Done, Ready To Send Out (all the steps I outlined finished)? Read by your friends, re-read and revised after a week in the desk drawer, all that stuff?

What I do for fun is my own business, y'know. Just because someone's become a major league ball player doesn't mean he can't knock a few balls around with friends at a picnic, right?
 

Solitarely

Re: Taking it to the next level...

James I just posted chapter three in feedback forum to show you what I mean by non-traditional. That is chapter three's begginings in my novel. I will include in the final MS the full thread. The man in the noose is essential and I think in all of us, you konw who taht si! Read it and you'll know what the Hell I'm talking about I swear. It's a very fun novel.

So how's your litarary career been, man? I'm very new to this and find it quite a bit confusing. Could I be so kind as to interest you in writting a foreward to my first book ever in exchange for a mesely copy edit? An breezily, easily done copy-edit, I should add. WHAT A BARGAIN FOR YUOS!!!!!!
Heh, just imagine, eh?

I really don't know too much about you though and am interested. Also, in your honost oppinion, would I enjoy one of your books? Thanks EVERYONE!

LOVE mwhaa!
 

HapiSofi

Re: Taking it to the next level...

begginings
konw
taht
si
writting
foreward
mesely
An breezily
YUOS!!!!!!
honost
oppinion



Not a copyeditor.
 

Solitarely

Re: As long as we're doing Shakespeare

I'm bored, and maybe serious. But mostly not.
Actualy, I'm just happy to eat a taco from time to time, ya know?
 

James D Macdonald

Re: As long as we're doing Shakespeare

I'm not entirely sure you're interested in writing commercial fiction, Solitarely, so I'm not sure what help I can give you.
 

Chris Goja

Hey batter, batter!

Well, give me the rest of the week to let it ripen a little bit more in my desk drawer (and get the last comments from tardy beta readers), and then I'll go deep and wait for your homeruns.

(As is probably apparent, I don't know all that much about baseball...)<img border=0 src="http://www.absolutewrite.com/images/emotehuh.gif" />
 

spooknov

Re: Taking it to the next level...

Of the three pericles, the peeps was the best. I could not stomach the other two. But I did manage to get through UJ's all the way to the end!:clap

I'd forgotten how treacherous ye olde english could be without a minimum of two cups of coffee. I had to stop and get a refill before continuing the thread. Has it really been that long since HS lit. and drama?
 

maestrowork

Re: As long as we're doing Shakespeare

Y'all know there's a "spell check" button when you post a message, right?

Also there are great spell check utilities for your browsers you can freely download from the internet (I use "iespell").
 

James D Macdonald

Outlining

Once, many years ago (for reasons that seemed good to me at the time), I drove from Norfolk, Virginia, to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, without benefit of a map or pre-planning. I mean, Pittsburg is northwest of Norfolk. Head northwest and look for the signs. What's the problem?

Around about three o'clock in the morning, in (I think) West Virginia, at an all-night diner by the side of a secondary road, I asked the nice young waitress "How do you get to Pittsburgh from here?"

She thought a moment and said, "I'd take a plane."
 

wwwatcher

Re: As long as we're doing Shakespeare

"I'm not entirely sure you're interested in writing commercial fiction, Solitarely, so I'm not sure what help I can give you."

Get him to read Pericles (tell him it has pimps and madames in it) Maybe he won't be so bored then.

8o :nerd 8o
 

sugarmuffin

Outlining

Hi Uncle J.,

We talked about outlining a while back on this thread, and I am finding it useful in a number of ways. One is that I don't have all my thoughts in a jumble of notes on scraps of paper and envelopes (didn't mean the touch of i.p. or rhyme, but kinda like it).

But probably the biggest help an outline is for me is that it helps me psychologically, on those days when I feel that getting from the beginning to the end is an insurmountable challenge. While things get added to -- or subtracted from -- the story, in general I can see where I'm at, where I've been, and where I'm going with my work.

Did you ever get to Pittsburgh?

Lisa
 

maestrowork

road trip and outline

I lived in Pittsburgh. :grin

I find it interesting to note that how you drive reveals quite a lot on how you write (and to a greater extent, how you cope with life in general). I am by no means a scatterbrain, but I drive the way I live life. I don't need to have control over every detail all the time. If I am to drive from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati, of example, I will note all the major highways (79, 70, 71) and check points (Wheeling, Columbus), then I just drive. Once in a while I will go on a detour, check things out, have a side trip or something. When I do get lost, I find my way back to the highway and off I go again. No sweat.

However, if I have a deadline (be in Cincy by 5 p.m. today) it's a different matter. I guess that's why "professional" writers with deadlines favor a more rigid and detailed outline, because they need to deliver in a specific time frame. Writers like me, who can afford to spend 10 years writing a novel, tend to take the "let's wander around and see what we find" approach.

There're good and bad about both approaches. A tightly plotted book can feel, well, tightly plotted. Rigid. A loosely plotted book can feel more fluid, deeper -- but perhaps harder to follow.
 

evanaharris

road

Yes. I, too, am digging the road-as-novel analogy. It's really how I work. "Okay. I have a secret agent gerbil and he needs defeat a crazed penguin." Go.
 

jeffspock

Plotting and Connie Willis

Last night I finished reading "To Say Nothing of the Dog" by Connie Willis.

Talk about puzzles, Chekhovian pistols, story arcs, and plot threads. If she uses a knot to plot, it's the Gordian one. :eek

I have to say that I stand open-mouthed and drooling like an idiot by her ability to open, close, re-open, and re-interpret events and images that occur throughout the book. It's a real lesson in fiction development.

Not only that but it's a fun read, though it helps to have read some Jerome K. Jerome beforehand...

A question for Uncle Jim is: Does Connie have a particular reputation for this? I have to say that it really was a standout performance for me.
 

LiamJackson

Re: Outlining (Evan)

Poisoned fish. Goodbye Evil Penguin Dude...unless of course Evil Penguin Dude suspects Agent 00 1/2 (Gerbil...James Gerbil) and uses Dimwitted Walrus Dude as a food taster. In which case, James Gerbil could use a faux pas umbrella/air gun, and inject a ricin pellet into evil penguin's butt from forty paces....unless...

Damn. See what you've started Evan? Now, I'll be scheming on methods of deposing Evil Penguin Dude for the rest of the day.
 
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