Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Status
Not open for further replies.

James D Macdonald

Re: Final Revision Checklist

Jim and others:

Do you have a list of final things you check before submitting a manuscript?


I check to make sure all the pages are there and nothing horrible has happened to the formatting (like chapter twenty-two being printed in 8-point Garish, and everything from page 403 to the end underlined). Sometimes the running headers get screwed up in entertaining ways.

By the time I submit a manuscript I've read it so often I'm sick of it. Darn-near have it memorized. And how it feels to me is boring.

Really, read The Unstrung Harp. That'll tell you the truth.

But I can tell you a funny story.

As some of you may know, I write with my wife. And as others of you know, we live in far northern New Hampshire.

There we were. We'd finished Starpilot's Grave (a fine book; everyone should buy a dozen -- they make excellent gifts).

It was all printed out, tidily boxed, all's well. We were driving down to New York to spend the night at my mother's house, then take the train into New York City to meet our editor for lunch (and when editors take authors to expense-account lunches, it's worth the drive from far northern New Hampshire). Besides, the deadline was the next day (nothing like cutting it close).

And as we drove out of town, I turned to my wife and casually said, "You know, the middle doesn't work."

"Arrrghhhh!" she agreed with me.

Fortunately we had the novel on disk with us, and the computer with us, and the printer with us. (These were letter-quality dot-matrix days ... show of hands, kiddies, do you remember them?)

By the time we reached New York some seven hours later, we'd sort-of figured out what to do ... add a space battle. To reveal character, advance the plot, and support the theme.

It wasn't just adding one chapter, though. All the foreshadowing had to go into the earlier chapters, and all the results had to go into the subsequent chapters. It changed everything.

So.... first thing I did on arrival was sit down and write about twenty pages of original text, while Debra went through the first chapters and marked where the foreshadowing would have to go. Then while she was re-writing the new chapter and changing the first part of the book, I and my red-pencil were adding, deleting, and changing stuff in the back end of the book.

Now you all recall that dot matrix printers were slow in those days -- especially when you switched 'em to Letter Quality. Debra was still entering the changes in Chapter Two when we started Chapter One printing. And I figured how fast the pages were coming out, and calculated that at the current printing rate, we'd just catch our train.

This seemed to be working fairly well, right up until the safety feature on the printer clicked in.

It seemed that if the print-head got too hot, the printer would pause until it cooled, to keep from burning out the printer. It was August, a hot sticky night in August. And the safety feature shut down the printer. At that moment, we didn't care about the darned print head -- we could get a new printer if this one burned out -- what we didn't have was time.

Taking the lid off the printer so it wouldn't trap heat didn't help -- they had a cute little safety interlock to keep the printer from working while the lid was off.

Which is how that printer wound up with its lid off, with a paperclip jammed into the safety interlock, and a fan blowing at the print head.

We made the train (though I spent the trip into the city pulling the ears off the paper -- that was in the day of fan-fold sproket-drive computer paper). I noticed one typo on the way, corrected it with pen, and continued. The edges of the paper went into a wastebasket at Grand Central.

But we made it.

Well, I thought it was a funny story, anyway....
 

Fresie

Re: Final Revision Checklist

a fan blowing at the print head

A hair dryer! You should have used a hair dryer! :D Mind you, I can't remember any more if there were hand hair dryers at the time of dot-matrix printers and fan-fold paper (yes, I remember them, it was the same time as I went to "computer programming courses" at high school -- the said "computers" were red boxes as big as a room and were fed programs on what looked like oversized index cards...)

Heartbreaking story. :clap
 

James D Macdonald

The Answer

A serious answer to the question every writer gets asked:

"Where do you get your ideas?"

The answer is:

I'm the sort of person who gets ideas. Lots of them. If you don't have ideas popping into your head all the darn time, perhaps a career as a professional writer isn't for you.
 

Andrew Jameson

Re: Uncle Jim on the road

In reading unpublished writing (which I am occasionally asked to do), it always seems painfully clear to me from the first pages who has talent and who doesn't. Does that reflect your experience as well? And, if so, how can I tell the same about my own writing?
This piques my interest. What is it that untalented writers seem to lack? Is that something that you can define -- whether a writer has "it", I mean -- or is it like pornography, where you just know it when you see it? (I'm *not* trying to apply a go/no go test to my own writing or anything, I'm just curious if there's some recognizable, definable, articulatable line that seperates talented and untalented writers).
 

maestrowork

Re: Intro and Question

The problem isn't getting ideas. The problem is sorting through them and knowing which ones have potential, or knowing which ones are short stories and which could be fleshed out to a full-length novel. Or trying to stock them away and not listen to those "voices" in your head while you're trying to finish the WIP.
 

James D Macdonald

Talent

What is it that untalented writers seem to lack?

Think of it as dating the Muse.

Some guys take the Muse out, and most of the evening is spent in painful silence. The guy delivers the Muse back to her apartment, they shake hands, and that's that.

Some guys take the Muse out, things get hot and heavy in the back seat of the car for a while, she gives him a passionate kiss at her apartment door, then the door slams and she never returns his phone calls.

Some guys wake up the next morning, walk into the kitchen and find a chick wearing nothing but one of his shirts. She's got a happy smile on her face. She's making pancakes.

"Who are you?" the guy asks.

"I'm the Muse," she replies. "Don't you remember last night?" She starts frying bacon.

----------

If you can recognize which relationship with the Muse the writer has, you can tell who has the talent.

Note: Just as guys can have different relationships with young ladies at different points in their lives, so too can writers have different relationships with the Muse at various points in their lives.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Learn Writing with Uncle Jim

I get the feeling that if Grisham submitted the first few pages of on of his novels to you, you would tear it to shreds. He does too much stuff that doesn't advance the plot, introduces millions of names of characters that never get developed or even mentioned later, and so on.

<HR>

<BLOCKQUOTE>
The first two pages of The Summons, by John Grisham:
 

Kate Nepveu

Re: Final Revision Checklist

Uncle Jim: I now want to re-read _Starpilot's Grave_ and see if I can spot which battle was added!

Maybe when I get it and the third for my father-in-law; I bought him _The Price of the Stars_ as a birthday present and he loved it.
 

vrauls

Re: The Answer

Here's how to tell if you are good enough for someone to offer you money:

a) Someone offers you money.

I understand this. I write publishable nonfiction. I can say that because I have a book published and someone paid me money for it. You can buy it in your local bookstore.

b) Your beta readers ask you if you have anything else for them to read.

This is the hard part for me. I know another writer and we read each other's work. She's terrifyingly talented. I can not put her work down. I can't even read it critically because I'm so caught up in the story. All I want to do is turn, turn, turn the pages to find out what happens. That's talent.

She reads my work and tells me that I write like a technical writer (which I was for many years). That doesn't sound like talent. Still, when I've submitted snippets to crit. boards I don't get the echoing silence that marks the truly terrible. I get real feedback, which means it's at least readable.

Oh, and thanks for replying when it's obvious that you're very busy with real life.
 

Yeshanu

Re: Talent

It came by mail, regular postage, the old-fashioned way since the Judge was almost eighty and distrusted modern devices. Forget e-mail and even faxes. He didn't use an answering machine and had never been fond of the telephone.

I know this guy! He's still got a rotary dial telephone, too... :grin

I think that's one of the main hallmarks of good fiction -- characters you can relate to. Two sentences, and I already want to read this book about a guy who's just like someone I know.
 

macalicious731

Re: Learn Writing with Uncle Jim

A serious answer to the question every writer gets asked:

"Where do you get your ideas?"

The answer is:

I'm the sort of person who gets ideas. Lots of them. If you don't have ideas popping into your head all the darn time, perhaps a career as a professional writer isn't for you.

Jim, I've found another answer also fitting for this question. It's down below, on my signature.
 

JuliePgh

Re: POV question

Please help! I'm confused and stuck.

In my first chapter, three of my main characters meet. I'll call them Tom (major), Larry (minor) and Karen (major). I alternate POV between Karen and Tom with breaks. The circumstances do not allow for Tom's name to be revealed to Karen at this point. Is it correct to say that when I'm writing from Karen's POV, I can't use Tom's name in narrative passages because she doesn't know his name yet? And if so, how do I refer to him? I can't simply use male pronouns due to the presence of a second man.
 

Yeshanu

Re: The Answer

When you're writing from Karen's point of view, the reader should know what Karen knows. She doesn't know his name, so don't use it.

How does Karen refer to him in her thoughts? That's the term you should use.
 

macalicious731

Re: The Answer

Julie, I'm not an expert. So these are suggestions to be taken with a grain of salt.

Perhaps you can attribute some kind of 'nickname' to the other man. Did you read _The Princess Bride_? All the characters know Westley as 'the man in black' before his identity is revealed.

Or - rethink your POV all together. It sounds like it isn't working very well right now, so consider picking one of the characters' POVs and work from that one. Depending on your setup, it might also save the reader from confusion.
 

maestrowork

Re: Learn Writing with Uncle Jim

Constant POV shifts in one chapter sound risky to me. Can you think of a way to limit your POV to one person? If it's the minor character's POV through and through, it could be very interesting (one person doesn't know him and the other does... ).
 

gp101

Chapter breaks vs scene breaks??

I know I saw this addressed somewhat in some thread (I think Uncle Jim's), but I can't find it now and can't remember who originally brought it up. So I'll bring it up again:

What do you consider a new chapter? How would you distinguish between a new chapter and just a chapter break within the same chapter? I notice some writers don't use breaks within chapters at all, resulting in a lot of 2-pg chapters in a book of 90+ chapters but barely 250 pgs. Then I read other novels where the minimum number of pages for a chapter is ten. Studying published writers here isn't helping.

I've read that you should continue a chapter as long as a certain scene is being continued, but I've read novels where different scenes (involving the same characters, not intercut scenes where different characters do different things simultaneously) go on within the same chapter.

I normally create breaks within a chapter for POV switches, and for action taking place elsewhere simutaneous to the action I've just written. Gets a little disconcerting trying to figure out where some chapters should end--I don't want chapters too long or too short, and I want them varied in length. Too much to ask?
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Chapter breaks vs scene breaks??

Yes, this was brought up early on, and the answer is: Author's Choice.

For me, a chapter break happens at a natural break in time/place/character/action that's more than a line break, less than a Part.

For me, I try to arrange things so that those natural breaks happen every ten to twenty pages.

For me, the end of a chapter has a miniature climax, and a cliffhanger, that points to the start of the next chapter.

For you ... maybe something different.
 

paritoshuttam

Novel-writing software

Hi,

Came across some "novel-writing" software while browsing the net. Thank goodness it doesn't write your novel for you, but it is supposed to help by keeping track of your character details, sections, one-line summaries of scenes or chapters, etc. I guess it simply replaces the traditional story-cards and notes we use to organise the novel. Has anybody here used such software and found it useful? It's not too pricey: about $50. Any comments?

Thanks,
Paritosh.
 

paritoshuttam

Novel-writing software

"The Magic of newnovelist is that it doesn't feel as if you're writing a book."

The above quote on that site put me off. If something makes you feel you are not writing a book when you are... is it good? I found it an ambiguous advertisement for the software :)

- Paritosh.
 

Yeshanu

Re: Chapter breaks vs scene breaks??

Paritosh,

I don't know about that advertisement -- I like it when it feels like I'm writing a book precisely because I am writing a book. :grin

What I think they meant is something like, "This program helps you believe you can finally get to 'THE END'."

Unless they're aiming the software at the vast hoard of people out there who say, "I could write a novel, if only..."

In which case, you're probably just as well off without it. Except you'll still have your $50. (If that's peanuts to you, please send it to me... :b )
 

James D Macdonald

Worldcon

Imagine the look of surprise on my face when I found that AW regular HapiSofi's comments on WorldCon were picked up by my second-favorite hangout, <a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/005451.html#005451" target="_new">Making Light</a>, a literary Blog, as well as being commented and expanded upon in a couple of <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/sartorias/31706.html" target="_new">Live</a> <a href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/msagara/8046.html" target="_new">Journals</a>.

Since I'm going to <a href="http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/worldconskedjdm.htm" target="_new">be at WorldCon</a> myself, all I can say is "right on," and "read, learn, and inwardly digest."
 

HapiSofi

Re: Back to Joan-Doe Whining Author

Jim Morcombe asked:
"If an editor buys a complete and utter piece of rubbish, puts a nice cover on it, makes sure page one is a real grabber, makes sure the back cover reads well, puts it number one on his lists and then advertises it like hell to the book wholesalers...Wouldn't the book sell well, even if it was complete rubbish?"
No.
 

SFEley

Re: Back to Joan-Doe Whining Author

More to the point: books don't generally take off because the publishers advertise the hell out of them. How many people notice book ads? Books take off because the first few people to read them start telling all their friends, and then those friends start telling all their friends...

I believe that's the key to commercial blockbusting, far more than having a good story: writing a book that people will want to talk about. The notable current example is the success of The Da Vinci Code. The book was crap, but even I wanted to talk about it afterwards. (And look, I still am.)


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
 

maestrowork

Re: Chapter breaks vs scene breaks??

Some books (like Da Vinci Code) is poorly written but there's something about it that makes people want to read and talk about it: ideas and themes (religion, secret societies, conspiracy, etc. -- fascinating stuff), suspense, etc. It keeps you turning the pages even though the internal editor inside tells you, "this is crap." If Brown's a better writer, who knows how much better (if it's possible) the book is going to do (win the Pulitzer and Nobel, perhaps)?

Some people also enjoy simplicity: simple style, simple vocabulary, simple characters and plots (cliche). Just look at romance novels -- they're one cliche after another. But the books sell!
 

gp101

clarification

Maestro and SFEley:

not to stir up a hornet's nest, but why do you think Davinci Code is crap? Seriously... not trying to bait either of you. What made you think it was crap, and what do you think could have made the story a good read for you?

I ask because (obviously) millions of people liked Davinci Code, including myself, and though I know one book won't appeal to EVERYbody, I don't understand why someone would trash it as opposed to just "not enjoying" it. I can appreciate stories in genres I don't usually care for, but if well-written in some way, I can see why they worked in some way.

One of you mentioned things like simplistic or cliche, but what did you find simplistic or cliche that we don't find in most best-sellers? We all hear that every story's been told, it's just a matter of how they're told and how different characters react to recognizable conflicts ( I will give you that the English invalid in D.C. was a bit over-the-top, but still enjoyable).

I think the way the book opened made me want to read ahead, and the way most chapters (and even chapter breaks) ended with cliff-hangers or questions made me want to read more as well. Perhaps the background info (regarding art, codes, and Biblical conspiracies) put you off? That, I could understand--it's not everyone's cup o' tea. Myself, I ate it up.

Is it that either of you prefer more "literary" writing? I've enjoyed the couple of Toni Morrison novels I've read--very lyrical, almost poetic, and very moving. But a lot of the "literary" novels I find too heavy on description and internalization, and thin on pure entertainment. I'm not knocking it, just that Pulitzer Prize-winning doesn't necessarily equal unforgettable story. I'm willing to bet that ten years from now, considerably more people will remember Davinci Code than the Pulitzer winner from this year or last year.

I'd love to hear what Uncle Jim has to say, because it seems as if Dan Brown used every device Jim has been preaching about. Would either of you agree that Brown "followed the rules" as Jim has outlined?

Your thoughts?

Disclaimer: seriously, I'm not trying to bait you, just looking for your rationalization I guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.