What to do with the giant on your laptop (or when a novel can't get shorter)

[Anahid21]

I have a dilemma. Three years ago I started a YA fantasy. I had the entire novel laid out on paper and merrily wrote on. When it was all finished 2.5 years later I looked at my manuscript, clicked the double-space button (I had everything typed in single space,) and ended up with a 1000 page long manuscript staring at me.

When the time came to see a freelance editor she said there was no way a publisher would even look at a novel that long and we agreed to split the book into three separate volumes. However, now that I look at it, I see the book suffering from the Lord or the Rings syndrome. As in, you have to read the whole thing. No surprise because, after all, it is still one book. I've done my best to make each volume as self contained as possible but there is nothing I can do about the invisible "to be continued" stamp that shows up at the end of books 1 and 2 in bold black letters.

I'm completely at a loss. I believe the story is wonderful, it's just big. I even contemplated rewriting it but no matter how I try, there is no way I could shave off 2/3 of a plot to make it fit into the 300 page mold. I'm mad at the restrictions of today's publishing that puts limits on page number, says no to series stories, yet demands that every book should have a conclusive ending. It's like putting a sign over the door that says, "Your story must be this short to walk in."

What's your take on this and how do you suggest I solve the problem?

[ChristineR]

If it can't be made shorter, it can't be made shorter. Try to sell it as it is. I assume by 1000 pages, you mean 1000 manuscript pages. That would be quite a bit fewer when actually printed, maybe 500 pages. There are many 500 page novels out there, even first novels. If you can't sell it as it is, then maybe you can sell it as a second book.

If you're not 100% sure it can't be made shorter, try setting it aside for a while, or asking someone else to look at it.

[ChaosTitan]

First off, page count means nothing. What's your word count?

Second, if you truly feel that this story can't be cut (and I believe that any story length can be altered with a deft hand), then write another novel. Write a better, shorter novel that fits into today's standards. Once you've sold a novel or two, and have proven yourself marketable to publishers, you're more likely to be able to sell a long novel/trilogy such as you've described.

[scarletpeaches]

I cut a 148k novel down to just under 90k and it's a lot better for it.

[Freelancer]

Separate it to two, maybe three. I do the same with my 350k+ novel. Three volumes, separated at the right places. We're preparing for this, but regardless from it, we'll try to push it to publish the story in one great novel. But whatever will be, 3 volumes, or only 1, the storyline is already prepared to be published in more volumes if really necessary.

[ejaycee]

All stries can be trimmed, and are often much better for it. Check for redundancy, unnecessary words, scenes that don't actually do anything for the story (no matter how lovely they are) etc.
Get someone else to look at it for you. Fresh eyes can do wonders.

[Birol]

Tell you what, post the first page in SYW and post a link here, letting us know it has been done. Maybe we can show you what we mean by redundant words, etc. It really can make a difference.

[scarletpeaches]

Originally Posted by Birol

Tell you what, post the first page in SYW and post a link here, letting us know it has been done. Maybe we can show you what we mean by redundant words, etc. It really can makes a difference.

Et voila!

Fixed it for ya.

[Libbie]

Really, if you can't make it shorter, you can't. If you can't sell it as a debut, then write something shorter and sell that first.

However, I found it easy to shorten my novel after writing a two-page synopsis (with scarletpeaches' help -- she is a synopsis whiz.) Then at the suggestion of an agent who felt the story was good but too long to sell, I cut out everything I hadn't deemed important enough to put into that two-page outline. It made cutting insanely easy, and 30,000 words came right out without any fuss.

30K probably won't do it for you, but the process might help you get a start.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by scarletpeaches

Et voila!

Fixed it for ya.

You're messing with my voice! My style! How dare you!

[scarletpeaches]

Ah well, at least it's not the electric cattle prod this time.

*scuttles off to a place where Birol's modly powers can't reach her*

[Izz]

Originally Posted by ChaosTitan

First off, page count means nothing. What's your word count?

This

Second, if you truly feel that this story can't be cut (and I believe that any story length can be altered with a deft hand), then write another novel. Write a better, shorter novel that fits into today's standards. Once you've sold a novel or two, and have proven yourself marketable to publishers, you're more likely to be able to sell a long novel/trilogy such as you've described.

and then this.

with a little extra emphasis on this:

(and I believe that any story length can be altered with a deft hand)

and a note that the 'deft' part of that altering hand is very important.

Make sure every scene hold its weight (as in, drives the story forward in some way (either through plot or characterization). If you're unsure, take it out and see if the story suffers without it. If it does, plunk it back in. If not, then all good.

Then drop to sentence-level. Make sure every sentence holds its weight. Try not to stage direct too much, or over-explain to the reader. A character does not need to spell out every inch of her motivations and hopes and dreams. Allow the reader to draw some of their own conclusions.

Then make sure every word in every sentence holds its weight. Here is particularly where the 'deft' part of that hand comes into play. It is possible to tighten a work considerably without losing its voice, but it's not always easy.

Above all else, make sure you have plenty of backup copies, because sometimes you'll need to compare and contrast or revert.

And yeah, post in SYW (i notice you've done that once already a while back, but was that a drastically cut down version?), and remember that everybody's opinions are just that, opinions, and are offered with the best intentions of your work at heart (i say that because you're likely to get drastically different opinions on what is considered redundant ).

[cwfgal]

Tell you what, post the first page in SYW and post a link here, letting us know it has been done. Maybe we can show you what we mean by redundant words, etc. It really can makes a difference.
(39 words cut to 31)

Post a page in SYW and a link here; let's see what we can cut. (and then cut to 15 succint if dry words)

I couldn't resist playing along because Scarlet makes an excellent point (even though she may have meant it as a joke???). Any work can be cut. If you can trim your work into two or three stand-alone novels, each with its own story arc even though some other part of the story continues, you will stand a better chance.

Beth

ETA: Funky formatting--Scarlet's strikethroughs didn't show and it won't let me put them back in???

[Anahid21]

Thanks for all the great replies. Wow, I feel so blessed among so many experts. Let me clarify some things here:

-First off, word count is somewhere in the 300,000 region, give or take 1000. Like I said it's huge. But I know with a deft hand it could be knocked down to, say 250,000.

-Second, I posted the first chapter here: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/show...66#post4305366
as suggested. You can take any paragraph you like and kill it.

-About setting it aside and writing another novel, at this point it's admittedly my #1 alternative. It's just a little discouraging after spending so much time (and money) on a story I think has a better premise than anything else I have cooked up.

-Cutting scenes is also a good idea, and I would have gotten to it right away. But the story is so long I don't think any good will be done without actually changing the plot and eliminating characters and events. My fear is that the story may lose its charm and feel. Keep in mind I'm lifting a slightly heavier weight here, introducing a completely unique world, unique form of magic, characters and places with unfamiliar names, foreign culture, government, rules, etc. etc.

-Cutting stuff that seems unimportant has another side effect as well (Some one you might want to yell at me after this You see, this is supposed to be Book One of a much bigger series. Yes, I know what you're thinking: Idiot first time writer taking up a crazy epic thing. It just happened. Like Steven King said, stories are like fossils we find in the ground. I just happened to stumble upon a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

I'm going now to sit quietly in the corner and wait for your suggestions.

[Toothpaste]

My question for you is, have you actually tried to shorten it? I know you said no matter what you try there is no way you could shave off enough to fit a "mold", but to be honest . . . I just don't believe you've truly given it the good old college try. Know why I think that? Because you seem to love the fact that your book is so long, you hate that you have to fit into some box that the publishing industry forces us authors to conform to (okay you didn't say that but it is kind of implied in your post).

See the thing is this. It's easy to write a long book. Really really easy. Most first time authors write books that have far too much padding in them. It is truly rare for a first time author to write something too short. I'm speaking from personal experience as well, my first book needed to be trimmed significantly.

But it didn't need to be trimmed because the publishing industry is evil and has these random rules we are supposed to follow for no reason. It needed to be trimmed because the book was too full of fat. Trimming the book (which I did, btw, without cutting a single scene or chapter) made my book SO much better. It made it slick, and it read smoothly, and it went from something I'd written that I thought was pretty awesome, to an actual book.

So here's what I suggest. Try. Don't do it with anger, don't even do it with a wordcount in mind (btw, authors use wordcount to determine length, not page numbers), just try. If you can't bear the thought of losing scenes (like I couldn't), cut paragraphs. Cut sentences. Cut words within sentences. Re-read passages and be ruthless. Remember it is the savvy writer who can edit and make a work tight. A long book isn't a better book, and as a first long book . . . is very very typical. A first time author insisting they can't edit said book down . . . even more so.

And if after you truly actually try to cut your work down. If after you try with an open mind, not in a defensive "the publishing world stinks" way, but with a "you know, maybe I might actually have one to many words" way - if after you try this method of cutting words and STILL can't get rid of anything. Then you can try one of two things:

Try to sell your work as is and hope you are the exception to the rule.

Or.

Write another shorter book. Sell that. When you are established then share this book with your editor.


I should add I am really not trying to be mean with this post, and it is possible that you truly cannot cut anything out of your book, I don't know, I haven't read it. But after a while on forums such as these, and meeting new writers in person etc, after having gone through the exact same thing myself, honestly, 9 times out of 10, the book can be cut. Significantly. We as authors just have to get out of our own heads and down to business.


ETA: I cross posted with you. Having now read your excuses I am even more convinced you haven't really sat down and tried to cut. The fact that you think you are "lifting a heavier weight here" with having to do world building etc, suggests that even more to me. A deft hand can weave worldbuilding into the plot, kill two birds with one stone, for example. I have a sneaking suspicion you might have quite a bit of info dumping going on.

The fact too that you say this epic just happened to happen to you suggests that you haven't spent much time editing your MS, but sort of just wrote it in one go. In my mind, you are very much in first draft territory and if that is the case, you have plenty of cutting I am positive you can do.

Lastly . . . what's the money you've been spending? That worries me, because an author really has no need to spend any money, except I suppose on printing out the MS - ink and paper and that kind of thing.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by Anahid21

-Cutting scenes is also a good idea, and I would have gotten to it right away. But the story is so long I don't think any good will be done without actually changing the plot and eliminating characters and events. My fear is that the story may lose its charm and feel. Keep in mind I'm lifting a slightly heavier weight here, introducing a completely unique world, unique form of magic, characters and places with unfamiliar names, foreign culture, government, rules, etc. etc.

I'm going to go look at the first 250 words, but before I do, I wanted to comment on this: This is bull. Do you really think you're the only person on this board who has created a new world, etc., etc.

Let me clue you in: You're not.

This is something that every writer, in some way, shape, or form, has to contend with, whether they are writing science fiction, mysteries, or mainstream. You are also far from the only science fiction or fantasy writers on these boards who created a world not based in "real life." Don't even use that as an excuse as to why you can't cut your book down.

Just because you needed to know something in order to create a believable world, just because you thought of a fact or a reason why something is, doesn't mean it needs to be explained to the reader. You knowing it, the characters knowing it, that's often enough to give flavor and dimension to the text without stopping to spell it out within the text.

[Chasing the Horizon]

If I were you, I'd just write another novel. If the book's as long as you say, I don't see how you could possibly edit it down to an acceptable length. Even if you could, writing another book would have to be faster and easier. Besides, if you want to make a career out of writing, you're going to need to have a lot more than one good idea in you anyway.

That doesn't mean you give up on this book ever seeing the light of day. Lots of authors have their books published in a different order than they were written.

Out of curiosity, why do you say you've invested money in writing this book?

[Birol]

This was just a quick pass, and not all-inclusive of the edits you could be making.

[Chasing the Horizon]

Originally Posted by Birol

I'm going to go look at the first 250 words, but before I do, I wanted to comment on this: This is bull. Do you really think you're the only person on this board who has created a new world, etc., etc.

Let me clue you in: You're not.

This is something that every writer, in some way, shape, or form, has to contend with, whether they are writing science fiction, mysteries, or mainstream. You are also far from the only science fiction or fantasy writers on these boards who created a world not based in "real life." Don't even use that as an excuse as to why you can't cut your book down.

Just because you needed to know something in order to create a believable world, just because you thought of a fact or a reason why something is, doesn't mean it needs to be explained to the reader. You knowing it, the characters knowing it, that's often enough to give flavor and dimension to the text without stopping to spell it out within the text.

It's true that every writer has to build a world for their story, but introducing the readers to your own little world within the contemporary world we already know is a lot easier (and takes less words) than introducing a high fantasy world. That's why fantasy/science fiction has the highest word count guidelines of any genre (many spec fic agents and publishers list the top end for word counts as 120k or even 130k, instead of 80-100k like most other genres).

For example, if a pick-up truck drives by in a contemporary novel, you don't need to explain that a pick-up truck is a vehicle driven by a combustion engine, which has four wheels, a cab, and an open cargo bed. But if, in a fantasy novel, a carriage being pulled by a pair of drulatarees goes by, you have to explain what drulatarees are, because the readers don't know. Every time an imaginary idea, creature, item, or invention shows up, in goes another paragraph explaining what the hell it is. Those paragraphs add a lot of word count, trust me. And then there are the entire scenes which go in to show how an important item works or to show an important idea in action (showing always takes more words than telling, but also makes more of an impression on readers and is more interesting).

Of course readers don't need to know everything, or even most things, about your fantasy world (or mine). But they do need to know some things which wouldn't need to be explained in a contemporary setting. I'm not one to over-explain my world (in fact, I often get yelled at by my beta readers for not explaining enough), but I could still easily cut 25% of my word count if I removed all my fantasy world-building. Of course, the books wouldn't make a damn bit of sense to anyone but me then.

[Birol]

Originally Posted by Chasing the Horizon

For example, if a pick-up truck drives by in a contemporary novel, you don't need to explain that a pick-up truck is a vehicle driven by a combustion engine, which has four wheels, a cab, and an open cargo bed. But if, in a fantasy novel, a carriage being pulled by a pair of drulatarees goes by, you have to explain what drulatarees are, because the readers don't know. Every time an imaginary idea, creature, item, or invention shows up, in goes another paragraph explaining what the hell it is.

Not necessarily. I've read lots of novels -- good novels -- that give details within context and leave the epic-length explanations to the readers' imaginations. Do science fiction and fantasy novels tend to be longer? Yes. But that doesn't mean we have to know every detail of every whatzit and whichit that are in the character's junk drawer or the full history of its socio-political environment.

And, having now read the OP's prologue: It's heavy on prepositional phrases and redundant imagery. There's also some unnecessary POV shifts that can be cut.

[Izz]

Have added my 2c, which may be overpriced : My 2c

Originally Posted by Chasing the Horizon

But if, in a fantasy novel, a carriage being pulled by a pair of drulatarees goes by, you have to explain what drulatarees are, because the readers don't know.

Nah, you don't. Or, at least, i don't reckon you do.

Syrptah, unable to wipe the smile from his face, directed the drulataree-drawn carriage along the highway. He patted the scaly hide of his favorite and whispered, "Only thirty drestics more, pretty one, and we can drop this woman who calls herself a queen off and never see her again."

Reader sees animals pulling a carriage, immediately thinks 'horselike.' Throw in a detail like 'scaly' and they might shift to 'lizardlike? lizard horse? komodo dragon-ish?' Don't need too many details to create an image in a reader's head. And we should be able to add those details without tangenting off from the story.

[Chasing the Horizon]

I'm not big on fantasy things that are mentioned but not described/explained. I think if it's not worth explaining what it is, then you should just leave it out entirely. You don't need long descriptions (mine of the creatures that pull the carriages on my world is two short sentences), but unexplained terms irritate me. Maybe that's a personal preference.

[blacbird]

Originally Posted by ChaosTitan

if you truly feel that this story can't be cut

If you truly feel that this story can't be cut, that's the first major symptom telling you it both can and should be cut. Find a brutal beta reader, and pay attention to what that reader says.

caw

[Anahid21]

Let's take a deep breath and clear up some things here before the experts make icorrect conclusions based on a few things I typed in my previous posts.

Originally Posted by Toothpaste

Having now read your excuses I am even more convinced you haven't really sat down and tried to cut. ... .

The manuscript I'm working on now has gone through 3 initial revisions. After that it was handed to a professional editor (a complete stranger whom I paid to cut things and better the language,) then edited by me again to fix things she missed or didn't understand or I didn't like. Then edited again to become slicker, more dynamic, and to replace lifeless scenes with action.

The fact too that you say this epic just happened to happen to you suggests that you haven't spent much time editing your MS, but sort of just wrote it in one go.

I never said the epic just happened, I said it happened to be epic. I have shorter stories in my head . I liked this one better (better premise, unique environment,) and when I unveiled it, it happened to be a long story.

Lastly . . . what's the money you've been spending? That worries me, because an author really has no need to spend any money, except I suppose on printing out the MS - ink and paper and that kind of thing.

I paid the editor to fix my manuscript. She completely changed the tone of the story and turned it into colloquial English. I wouldn't have been able to do it without her because English is not my first language.

That said, I'd be thrilled to know it is possible to shorten the story without changing the plot. However I don't understand this insistence that my story is long simply because I padded it with too much description. It's true that I am new, but I have earned my scars too, and am a little more mature than the amature writer that first describes the city and then what happens in it. What I meant by heavy lifting was that I need a few extra scenes to make the reader comfortable in the new environment. If something happens in every scene and the plot careens forward like a runaway carriage the reader might feel lost, especially in an environment where everything is foreign.

I'm not against cutting junk, what I'm not fond of is cutting plot points. If you all truly believe that is possible I bow to you. But it still boggles my mind how a 300,000 word manuscript could be cut down to 80,000 without changing the story.

[Anahid21]

Originally Posted by Chasing the Horizon

I'm not big on fantasy things that are mentioned but not described/explained. I think if it's not worth explaining what it is, then you should just leave it out entirely. You don't need long descriptions (mine of the creatures that pull the carriages on my world is two short sentences), but unexplained terms irritate me. Maybe that's a personal preference.

To give you an idea, my characters go through 3 cities, 4 villages, a caravanserai, 2 deserts, 2 castles, a cliff maze and a cave. There are 5 battles and 15 fully developed characters in the story, some of whom have their own story arcs separate from the main character. If the verdict is that such a plot is fundamentally flawed because this many things are stuffed in it I understand. Perhaps better than those who say "things shouldn't be explained." I wonder if any reader would prefer it if I called a locale simply "castle" or "town" without at least giving a one or two sentence description of what it actually looks like, or have the characters take a stroll through its bazaar/main square/garbage filled back alleys.