Teen boy gets 3 days in-house suspension for asking Miss America to go to the prom with him

Suspension sounds a tad harsh, but I think the school is right to not subject a guest to what seems to be the latest fad: asking celebrities to prom.

Plot Device said:

At first I was more than a little shocked. At first I wondered if maybe he pulled a Dustin Hoffman/The Graduate kind of thing where maybe he shouted out across an auditorium where she was giving a formal speech. Yeah, that would be a grossly disruptive thing and kind of crazy even.

No. Not the case. He didn't do anything terrible or embarrassing or crazy at all.

The reason he was suspended was that the school administrators found out the day before Miss America's arrival that this kid had full intension of asking her to the prom (how? maybe he posted his intensions on Facebook). So when the kid walked into school, they took him aside, sat him down, and said "No. You will NOT do that." But then when she came to the school to pay them a formal celebrity visit, he went ahead and did it anyway.

So he basically disobeyed a direct order.

And yet, he ain't a soldier in the military, he's a kid in high school! This might constitute a free speech issue. So one has to wonder if a direct order can be violated in a high school setting when free speech is the heart of the matter.

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/04/student_suspended_miss_america_prom_1.html

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As to the bolded. I totally disagree.

I don't have any issue with this. No, he's not in the military. He's a student in a school that was having an event. They basically told him to behave and not disrupt it with his attention-whoring. He didn't listen.

I'm no longer in high school but I recall people getting in trouble for disobeying teachers and staff all the time. If a teacher says 'sit down and be quiet,' and you stayed standing and humming, would you not expect to get in trouble for that?

Also, in a general sense, can people stop asking vague celebrities to their proms? I feel bad for the celebrities. Just stop.

Okay so "three days worth of in-school suspension"--that's not really being suspended is it? Doesn't sound like a huge deal to me.

he's a kid in high school! This might constitute a free speech issue. So one has to wonder if a direct order can be violated in a high school setting when free speech is the heart of the matter.

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Just out of interest (not an American) how much free speech does America expect for its kids when in school? And how does the ideal of free speech sit with the idea of educating a roomful of kids? Or are there separate assumptions made about free-speech within the school environment?

Good. Now make him do laps around the gym.

Free speech? In a planned event that was not actually about him, but about the guest and her message? IMHO the worst thing is he has got just what he wanted from the media--all the attention on him and not on a woman trying to promote science education.

veinglory said:

Okay so "three days worth of in-school suspension"--that's not really being suspended is it? Doesn't sound like a huge deal to me.

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Depends on what they mean by "in-school suspension".

*has flashbacks*

alleycat said:

Good. Now make him do laps around the gym.

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Agreed. If I could get detention because I was reading after I was done with assingments in english, and the teacher asked me to just sit there instead. This kid can have in school suspension for what he did. It isn't a free speech issue. If the school asks him to not do something and he did it anyway. He should reap the consequences.

I certainly did, even though my sitting and reading wasn't bothering anyone besides my teacher.

This wasn't the teachers saying a transgender teen needs to dress like their biological sex, or cracking down on only lgbt couple showing PDA in halls. It's about him disobeying a direct order not to do something they found he planned to that they felt would be disruptive. It is about him respecting the schools rules.

mccardey said:

Just out of interest (not an American) how much free speech does America expect for its kids when in school? And how does the ideal of free speech sit with the idea of educating a roomful of kids? Or are there separate assumptions made about free-speech within the school environment?

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There are, the same as in other things, though not quiiite the same, heh.

Forgive me if I'm saying stuff you know. I'm not sure what you know and don't, as it's the same but different and also I don't know if doggie academies cover the same things.

First, Freedom of Speech applies to instances in which the government is the limiting entity. People often complain if, say, a shop tells them to bugger off for swearing, that they have freedom of speech, but that's not applicable there at all. The shop is perfectly allowed to tell you to leave, as long as they're not doing so in a discriminatory manner against a protected class (i.e. they can't tell all the black folk to leave because only white people are allowed to shop there.)

The government, however, can not, generally, with a few exceptions, tell you to bugger off for swearing. You want to stand around on a public street swearing? As long as you're not causing a disturbance or impeding traffic or some such, go nuts.

The tricky bit is where things cross - like public schools or government jobs. Mostly, these have been judged to be basically seen as if they're private for some purposes. For instance, though the Constitution guarantees your right to free speech the government can tell a government-employee like a law-enforcement official or a teacher to refrain from saying particular things, or, say, cursing, while on the job.

Kids in school do have freedom of speech - as does everyone - but to a limited extent that's been bickered over by the Court for ages. Often, the decisions have been based on the purpose of the speech - political speech getting freer reign than lewd speech, for example - and things relating to the school environment, like disruption.

If you're interested, there are a lot of cases deciding varying aspects, like, just for instance, Tinker, Bethel/Frasier(Frazier?), and Hazelwood. The decisions of late, at least the ones I'm aware of, and there certainly may be ones I'm not, in this specific, non-religion-involved area, have leaned away from the idea that speech crosses the schoolhouse door untouched, in a big way.

Thank you so much, Cornflake - that's all pretty much stuff I didn't know. I'll google those names and read up.

Back to your scheduled reading, everyone. Sorry for the deraily bit.

cornflake said:

As to the bolded. I totally disagree.

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So do I. If he asked her when she came to the school as a guest, then yes, it was embarrassing to the school, and they had every right to ask him not to do it.

And it's stupid.

I'm torn on this. I mean, I agree that, having been asked not to do it, he was wrong to do it. And I also think that the setting was inappropriate when she was there on formal business.

But at the same time I can't help but admire his balls in going through with it.

Eh, the school told him not to do it and he did anyway. It's entirely appropriate he reap the consequences, which seem reasonably proportionate.

And yeah, his fuckery totally diluted her message, at least in the wider media. Job well done.

shaldna said:

I'm torn on this. I mean, I agree that, having been asked not to do it, he was wrong to do it. And I also think that the setting was inappropriate when she was there on formal business.

But at the same time I can't help but admire his balls in going through with it.

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I only say this because you're not in America and thus I think you may be reading this without a bit of knowledge.

A few years back (and it happened on rare occasion before then and also made news), someone asked a celebrity they really had a crush on (I vaguely think it was Mila Kunis but I also think hers was later than the big splash one; I don't remember.) to their prom or a military dance, and it got wide play and the celeb went. It's happened forever, as above, but rarely and only very rarely did it come to anything, thus it was usually people who really liked a celeb or were ill or what have you. Since that one a few years back, it's gotten ridiculous, partly due to the Internet. People make a video or post it on facebook and ask everyone to like it or whatever and it spreads and it's gotten commonplace. It's now much more attention-whoring behaviour on the kids' part than anything that takes guts.

That this kid posted about it before hand, was told off, went in anyway with a stupid plastic flower, etc., says it was more of the same, not any real interest in this particular woman.

cornflake said:

I only say this because you're not in America and thus I think you may be reading this without a bit of knowledge.

A few years back (and it happened on rare occasion before then and also made news), someone asked a celebrity they really had a crush on (I vaguely think it was Mila Kunis but I also think hers was later than the big splash one; I don't remember.) to their prom or a military dance, and it got wide play and the celeb went. It's happened forever, as above, but rarely and only very rarely did it come to anything, thus it was usually people who really liked a celeb or were ill or what have you. Since that one a few years back, it's gotten ridiculous, partly due to the Internet. People make a video or post it on facebook and ask everyone to like it or whatever and it spreads and it's gotten commonplace. It's now much more attention-whoring behaviour on the kids' part than anything that takes guts.

That this kid posted about it before hand, was told off, went in anyway with a stupid plastic flower, etc., says it was more of the same, not any real interest in this particular woman.

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I've seen some of those videos and they do kinda make me cringe.

In is instance I think it was very wrong to put her one the spot like that, and I think someone upthread was completely right when they said it detracted from the purpose of her being there. There's not cool.

I think social media and the internet has had a lot to do with this, but so to has every movie and book and TV show which has shown the hero making some big public gesture to the girl / guy they have a crush on. It's romanticised those actions, and so, to a point, I can't really blame kids for thinking that's what it takes to get the attention of the girl, or whatever.

mccardey said:

Just out of interest (not an American) how much free speech does America expect for its kids when in school? And how does the ideal of free speech sit with the idea of educating a roomful of kids? Or are there separate assumptions made about free-speech within the school environment?

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There have been varied rulings on the matter. While there have been SCOTUS decisions that have supported students' rights to perform non-disruptive acts of free expression in schools (like wearing black armbands during the Vietnam war), the rulings in recent years have tended to support the schools right to act as in loco parentis and to suppress or censor student speech, expression and association in various ways. In some cases, they're even allowed to discipline students for what they say or do outside of school hours.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html

http://www.branfordseven.com/opinion/article_a2b49722-80c8-11e0-9d87-001a4bcf6878.html

Where this particular incident falls related to various precedents, I don't know. This behavior could certainly be interpreted as "disruptive" of the assembly at least.

There's disruptive and then there's being a jerk and an attention-monger. This kid falls into the latter category. It's become the age of "look at me taking a selfie with a celeb I've shanghaid" or words to that effect.

No, I take that back. It's been around for a long time. Only the way of conveying the message has changed. Is this kid wrong about having free speech? No, but at the same time, it's infringing upon a ceremony honoring a semi-celeb who's just doing her job. Embarrassing for her, maybe, but it's just--to me--plain dumb for the kid to pull that kind of stunt. His punishment is light, though, so it's not like he's being expelled or suspended.

Meh...there are bigger problems with education than a glory-seeking little twit.

J.S.F. said:

Meh...there are bigger problems with education than a glory-seeking little twit.

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Yeah. I'm with the school on this one, but not really worth a whole lot of attention, IMO.

If some students had organized a protest because the school was bringing in Miss America to speak to students and was shut down, that I could see as a First Amendment issue (and one I could get behind).

In the interview I read, the boy basically said that he did it because if someone tells him not to do something, it just makes him want to do it even more. He just strikes me as immature, and the whole going against authority for the sake of it thing is not something I find particularly admirable.

kaitie said:

In the interview I read, the boy basically said that he did it because if someone tells him not to do something, it just makes him want to do it even more. He just strikes me as immature, and the whole going against authority for the sake of it thing is not something I find particularly admirable.

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Yes, I agree. And although I don't think Miss America would be particularly butthurt about it, I don't think it's cool to ask anyone to prom for any reason other than you want to go with them.

I actually admire the school's restraint. I would've put the boy in detention, then 4 hours of afterclass maintenance work for two months, then write a 5,000 words essay about why he likes her* and then I would graffitti his diplomma with the word JACKASS. Okay, maybe not the last one.


*because come on. I'd be surprised if she's anything else than two bikini photos in his fap folder.

Celia Cyanide said:

Yes, I agree. And although I don't think Miss America would be particularly butthurt about it, I don't think it's cool to ask anyone to prom for any reason other than you want to go with them.

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Apparently Miss America wants the school to reconsider, which says a lot about her. I would not be so gracious, but I am a curmudgeon not likely to be asked to speak to kids.

Kaiser-Kun said:

because come on. I'd be surprised if she's anything else than two bikini photos in his fap folder.

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Maybe if he were a 12-year-old, but at 18, I doubt it.

He'd need videos at that age.