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Jennifer Robins said:
I am sure you are right, but I have a horror thriller that would sell well in the fall months. I've been down this road before. I know they can and do put books out sooner. It all depends on how well known you are.
It depends on many things besides that. You really need to understand how publishing works before you start deciding on your own what time of year the publisher should release your novel, and thinking that it's just a matter of the publisher deciding to get your book into production sooner. Do you even understand how pre-orders work, for example, or how the lack of time to market your book before release can affect its sales?

Here's the simple, hard truth: You're not going to get special treatment because you think your novel should be published in the fall. You're not going to get a good publisher if you base your decision on how fast they'll rush you to print. And you need to learn much, much more about publishing before you can make good decisions. May I recommend you begin by reading the thread called "How Real Publishing Works" at the top of this forum?
 

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Time and time again

There's time in the regular world and time as marked in publishing.

In August 2004 my agent got a publisher to consider an anthology proposal from me.

Moving at warp speed they accepted the proposal, then over the next 6 months I contacted potential tribbers. By spring they had their contracts signed and by summer of 2005 the first story was turned in. Trust me, this is exceptional speed on everyone's part!

By January of 2006 the last story was turned in. (Late--the writer was busy.)

By April 2006 I was looking over the galleys for my story. Just this week the last writer turned in her corrections. (She was busy, too!)

The collection won't be released until October 2006.

THAT'S moving really fast! I lucked out that they liked the idea and had an opening in their schedule. The book would have been perfect for a June release, but the publishers just couldn't swing it. Not wouldn't--couldn't.

Some publishers are able to get a topical non-fiction book out in a month, but the rest move much, much slower.

Their schedules are blocked out up to 2 years (maybe more) in advance. Though you may have a fantastic, wonderful idea and it would be perfect for a certain time of the year release, they have to fit it in far, far down the road from where you'd like. If it's perfect for Halloween 2006, they will more likely slot it in for H. 2008.

That shiny "new" release that you spot on the racks today was turned in from 12-36 months ago.

(This is why I never follow publishing "trends." By the time the book is finished so is the trend and they're on to a new flavor of the month. So everyone shelve their Da Vinci Code-inspired thrillers, in a couple months it's gonna be something else, 'cause the public will be sick of them.)

When I turned a book in a few months late I missed MY slot in the schedule, which was filled up with a different book by a writer who did meet his deadline. My book was rescheduled for a year later--because another writer turned *his* book in late, opening a hole for me!

It's screwy and frustrating, but how the big-time print publishing world works.

On the up side--it's where the money is,so I DON'T mind!!
wink.gif
 
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Lauri B

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Hi Jennifer,
Most books that have a fall release (in bookstores anywhere from mid August to mid winter, actually) will have been in a publisher's catalog since the previous spring. Generally the manuscript has been in process for close to a year. While you're right, some publishers can rush a manuscript onto shelves, it is almost always rushed only by a few months--the book has already been in production. There is no benefit to anyone--publisher or author--if a book is put out in a rush, simply because half of the success of a book is determined by pre-publication buzz, and then by reviews of the book immediately on publication. So while you may have a book that would sell quite well at Halloween, a publisher will also hope it sells well the rest of the year, too, and will want to make sure they have a marketing plan in place to present the book to its best possible advantage.
 

MundaniaPress

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Net does NOT mean profit...

Gillhoughly said:
Mundania: "We pay 15% net on print copies, and 50% net on eBooks"

NET means you get 15% and 50% of the PROFIT on a book. What if it makes no profit?

Other publishers give a percentage of the COVER price. That is industry standard as I know it.

Once the bean counters are done some projects NEVER make a profit--just ask the Forrest Gump bunch about that.

Ask Mundania to swap the word "net" with "cover price" on the contract and see what happens.

I nearly signed a film contract where the boiler plate had "net" where "gross" should have been. Thankfully a lawyer friend found that fine point and saved me from all kinds of grief.

Try going with a publisher who pays a real advance and provides a percentage of the cover price. That's easier to track!


You are incorrectly making assumptions. Our contract is posted on our website for the public to view BEFORE they submit, and of course, there is always a printed version with the exact specifications that can be examined BEFORE signing.

No where in our contract does it say PROFIT. Nothing is based on profit. Net sales means net sales--the net amount of money we receive in our hands. we do not take out any "fees" of any kind. When we sell a book for full retail off our website, then, in effect, the 15% on print and 50% on eBook *IS* off the cover price, because that is how much money we received. If we sell a book to a bookstore or distributor and they take 40-60%, then whatever money we get in our hands, we split with the author--they get 15% of every dollar that comes in. The only small presses that pay strictly off cover price are those that ONLY sell on their websites for full retail. We could do that, but we'd sell a heck of a lot less books then. By selling through wholesalers, and on Amazon, etc., there are a LOT more books sold, but those companies grab a big chunk of the money.

Since we never sell a book at a loss, that means we will ALLOWS make some money off every book sold, and that means the author gets their cut of that money.

Example: A book sells for $10.00. If we sell it off the website for full retail, the author gets $1.50 (15%). If we sell their eBook for $6.00, the author gets $3.00 (50%). If we sell their eBook through FictionWise that takes 50% off the top of the sale, that means we get $3.00 cash in our hands. The author gets half of that ($1.50). If we sell a print copy through Ingram's, which takes close to 60% after discounts, etc., that means they will put $4.00 in our hands, and the author gets 60 cents (15%). Yes, it is a lot less than if we sell it directly, but the middlemen and bookstores always take the lion's share of money.

As a small press, we do not have deep pockets. That's a fact of life. However, we always attempt to be as fair as possible with our authors--and still be able to stay in business.

You don't take into consideration the many hundreds of dollars of real hard cash that publishers pay out upfront to invest in your book. Cover art ain't cheap. Neither are editors, typesettings, rent, electricity, computers, software, taxes, shopping cart fees, merchant account fees, printer upload fees, and on and on and on. THAT'S why it is important for a publisher to make a profit--so they can STAY in business, and PAY all those costs, and INVEST in the next book that they take in.

It's a business. Our contract is fair to the author and it is fair to us. Even if we take in a book and it ends up bombing and only selling one copy its entire lifespan, that author will STILL receive 15% of the money we got in hand for that one sale. We eat all the rest of the costs. That's about as fair as we can get.

The only way any author would truly understand the publisher's viewpoint, and what they have to put up with, is to become a publisher--or to self-publish their own book. Go out and buy a block of 10 ISBNS for several hundred dollars. Pay a cover artist several hundred dollars to design your cover (a cover that you'll never even own). Pay an editor hundreds of dollars to properly edit your book. Buy advertising to let people know you and your book even exist. It goes on and on.

A publisher is like a bank giving you a loan. We're investing in your book in hopes that we BOTH can make money on it. If we don't then the publisher is the one that loses money, not the author. The author can always take their book and simply go elsewhere and they haven't lost a dime in all the prep work to publish it.

Sorry for rambling, but the author needs to be educated on what the business end of publishing is all about so they can be realistic in their demands with publishers. Yes, a publisher needs to be fair with an author. Yes, both the author and the publisher need to make money. The only way that happens is if the book SELLS. And that happens when the publisher produces a good work and gets it out there and the author generates enough interest and a good fan base so people will buy their book and tell other people about it.

Publishers and authors are really partners in the endeavor, and our authors make money on every single book that we sell. Regardless of how much money is put into our hands, the author always gets his/her cut of that money. Always.

Piers Anthony is one of our authors, that is true, but let me tell you that he pulls no punches with us and treats us exactly the same way as he treats every other publisher he has. He maintains a site that rates publishers.

He had this to say about our publication contract:

"Their sample contract has plain-English explanation of what the legalese language means. They take electronic, hardcover, and trade paperback rights for two years; it can be canceled thereafter on a month's notice. Royalties: 50% electronic, 15% on hard copies, paid quarterly, based on what they get. There is a good audit clause. You might want to look at these explanations when considering the contract of some other publisher, as the legaleze is similar."

Piers specifically told us that we have a good contract that is fair to our authors, and holds it up as an example to other publishers.

Yes, we could change our contracts to read "cover price: but then we'd be paying the same rates as NYC firms, down in the 5-8% range. It all works out in the end, and the bottom line is that our authors receive payment for every book that is sold. As our partners, they receive 15% to 50% of every dollar that comes in our doors. We can't be fairer than that and still be in business.

Yes, you can go with a publisher who pays an advance and a percentage of the cover, but then you are talking going with one of the big NYC firms and that means having an agent and striking gold to get published. You always have a better shot at getting accepted by a small press. You have to trade off things sometimes. Get accepted faster (or at all) with a small press, but because they don't have deep pockets, you won't be sent on a nation-wide booksigning tour and have a DaVinci Code/Harry Potter-type advertisting budget. Or try for the brass ring and be the next DaVinci or Potter author. Best of luck!

I hope this addresses your concerns. If you have any other specific questions, please let me know.

Dan
 
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MundaniaPress

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We don't say profit.

Jennifer Robins said:
That's right. They do say profit. I sent them my novel Jeffrey and If they want to publish it, they will have to change that. I also noted in their guidelines that it could take up to 120 days or more to respond. That's too long. If I don't hear from them in a few weeks, I'll just forget it. I have sent it to others so we will see who answers sooner. I would like to see Jeffrey out by the end of this year. Now, that may not happen, but it would be good if I could announce it's coming out for Halloween on the radio shows I will be on.

Jennifer Robins

Jennifer,

No, we DON'T say profit. Please re-read our contract, which is put up for inspection on our website.

We say exactly this:
Section 8. Royalty Commissions

In compensation for this grant of rights, the PUBLISHER hereby agrees to pay AUTHOR the following Royalty Commissions:

  • 50% of Net Sales from the sale of all electronic editions of the WORK.
  • 15% of Net Sales from the sale of all bound printed editions of the WORK.
Net sales are defined as the Total Dollar amount that is actually received by the PUBLISHER from the wholesale or retail sale of the WORK minus the Total Dollar amount of any Returns of the WORK. Wholesale amounts vary with each wholesaler/distributor. Consignment placements are not considered sales until PUBLISHER receives payment. AUTHOR will receive no royalties on copies of WORK considered complimentary, i.e., those used for charitable, advertising, and review purposes.


============================================

This talks about your share of the sales—called royalties. You will receive a percentage of every book sold and paid for. The percentages are listed above. Your book may be sold directly by us, in which case it will be for cover price, or a small (10-25%) discount, and you'll make the most royalties. If we wholesale the book, like through Ingram's or Baker & Taylor, they take a hefty chunk off the top (their 'discount') and your royalty is the percent of the money we actually receive for the book. When books are placed with a wholesaler or bookseller to sell, no royalties are paid until we receive payment. Wholesalers take 4 to 6 months to pay for a sold book. Some bookstores, who order directly from us, can take upwards of a year to pay! Once payment from wholesalers or bookstores is received, it will go into that quarter's royalty report and royalties will be paid. Also if we give copies of the book away, for example to a reviewer, no money is received so no royalties are paid.

Dan
 

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Response Times

Jennifer Robins said:
I also noted in their guidelines that it could take up to 120 days or more to respond. That's too long. If I don't hear from them in a few weeks, I'll just forget it. I have sent it to others so we will see who answers sooner. I would like to see Jeffrey out by the end of this year. Now, that may not happen, but it would be good if I could announce it's coming out for Halloween on the radio shows I will be on.

Jennifer Robins
We now receive 350-400 unsolicited full novel manuscripts per month. And now that we are publishing short stories and novellas, we receive upwards of 100 or more of those a month. I expect that to climb. We only have a hand full of editors that are reviewing all the submissions and we want to take the time to properly evaluate each manuscript to give the author a fair review of his/her work, and to provide them with a timely answer. 90-120 days is about the best we can do. And that's mostly because of the backlog. It might be two months before your book even enters the review process. Sorry, just a fact of life.

You might submit to a newer publisher that doesn't receive as many submissions, or you might go for the whole shebang and submit to a big NYC firm. Then you'll be waiting a year or longer to hear back. At least that is what authors have told me before.

Another point: If your book was accepted today, our publication schedule is booked solid through late 2007, so it would be over a year before it would be published. If a book would sell well in a certain time period, we'd work to get it scheduled for then as best as possible.

Dan
 
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Jennifer Robins

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jenrob

Nomad said:
Hi Jennifer,
Most books that have a fall release (in bookstores anywhere from mid August to mid winter, actually) will have been in a publisher's catalog since the previous spring. Generally the manuscript has been in process for close to a year. While you're right, some publishers can rush a manuscript onto shelves, it is almost always rushed only by a few months--the book has already been in production. There is no benefit to anyone--publisher or author--if a book is put out in a rush, simply because half of the success of a book is determined by pre-publication buzz, and then by reviews of the book immediately on publication. So while you may have a book that would sell quite well at Halloween, a publisher will also hope it sells well the rest of the year, too, and will want to make sure they have a marketing plan in place to present the book to its best possible advantage.

This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time. I know a lot depends on certain things. I now have a good following from the books I have had out and I am asked all the time, "when is the next one coming out?" So, all I can do is be hopefull that I can get this next one on the market soon. I'm also pressured at times by the radio shows that have me on from time to time. The producer of one of them has even tried to help me find a publisher. It's crazy.
As far as my books selling all year around, I have no trouble with that. I write about the paranormal/supernatural, like those of Stephen King and Koontz and people love them. I still have a lot to learn and I'm open for all and any suggestions.

Jennifer Robins
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Jennifer Robins said:
This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time.

from reliable publishers?

I somehow doubt that...

as for me, I signed with Mundania in August of 2005 and expect my book to be out in 2007. I waited eight months to go through the review process. I don't think you're going to get a faster reaction from any other publisher, even if you have an audience.

NO publisher worth their salt is going to be able to pump out a book within six months, no matter WHO the author is. There's cover design, promotion and getting the book into catalogs to start with... and oh, yes, the editing part of the entire thing. I just don't think it's possible.
 

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Jennifer Robins said:
This is all true and I'm not apposed to waiting, but I know authors who have had their books out in a 6 month time. I know a lot depends on certain things. I now have a good following from the books I have had out and I am asked all the time, "when is the next one coming out?" So, all I can do is be hopefull that I can get this next one on the market soon. I'm also pressured at times by the radio shows that have me on from time to time. The producer of one of them has even tried to help me find a publisher. It's crazy.
As far as my books selling all year around, I have no trouble with that. I write about the paranormal/supernatural, like those of Stephen King and Koontz and people love them. I still have a lot to learn and I'm open for all and any suggestions.

Jennifer Robins


I'd suggest that it's thinking like that led you to PA. No reputable publisher is going to respond in a couple of weeks.

Unless the producer of the radio show has connections with reputable publishers, that is indeed crazy.
 

Jennifer Robins

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jenrob

Sassenach said:
I'd suggest that it's thinking like that led you to PA. No reputable publisher is going to respond in a couple of weeks.

Unless the producer of the radio show has connections with reputable publishers, that is indeed crazy.

I'm not happy with PA but your wrong about the time with them. I waited 21 months for my second book to come out.
Look, none of you are telling me something I dont already know. I still think there is a chance for me to get something out sooner than 2 years. Can't blame me for trying.

Jennifer Robins
 

Sheryl Nantus

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using PA as an example of a publisher's timetable just isn't logical. Or intelligent.

that's how PA started this silliness of "no editing" options and all the other junk they peddle to their victims - just because you waited 21 months for your second book means NOTHING in the legitimate publishing world.

I'm still wondering about these other authors you claim who got published in six months or less...

when I worked for Penguin Books Canada back a thousand years ago there was at *least* a year between signing a contract and the book seeing the light of day. There were cover designs to be considered, contracted and created; there were salespeople pushing the new book either as part of a current line or as a stand-alone and getting pics for the catalogue and plugging it to the bookstores by designing displays and the like... oh, and the editor had to actually EDIT the book and get it back to the author, usually by courier. And most editors had more than just one book to work on, making it a very busy place.

no one's blaming you for being optimistic that you can get a book out in less than two years, but to decide that you're going to set up an unrealistic response timetable for Mundania and elsewhere is a bit much to handle. Ask anyone who's sent out a hundred queries and waited months for a reply; ask anyone here who's sent out manscripts either partials or whole to agents who wanted to look them over and then waited months more; ask anyone here who's gone through the process with a reputable publisher and two years is a darned conservative estimate.

be optimistic, but also be realistic.
 
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Gillhoughly

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"Yes, you can go with a publisher who pays an advance and a percentage of the cover, but then you are talking going with one of the big NYC firms and that means having an agent and striking gold to get published. You always have a better shot at getting accepted by a small press. You have to trade off things sometimes. Get accepted faster (or at all) with a small press, but because they don't have deep pockets, you won't be sent on a nation-wide booksigning tour and have a DaVinci Code/Harry Potter-type advertisting budget. Or try for the brass ring and be the next DaVinci or Potter author. Best of luck!"

As it happens my first book sold right off the slush pile to one of those big NYC firms. No agent, just three chapters and an outline, same as all the other hopefuls. I was in agony for six weeks while they looked over the whole MS. But it DID happen and proved that though intimidating, it's not impossible to make such a sale.

They offered me a 6-book contract right out of the gate. I got an agent sometime after turning in my 4th novel so he could negotiate my next contract. Big as the NYC house is, it has never sent me on a book tour, and I do all of my own promotion. Only after signing a hardcover deal on my 11th title for them were they even interested in having a publicity photo of me. I'm presently mid-list, but grateful for it as it's more than most ever get. I'm not into trading off, but that's my choice.

Previous to that I did send my 1st MS to several small presses. The one that did want to sign me went bankrupt. These days small presses spring up and vanish like mushrooms, with scam artists by the dozen making the good guys look bad. Unpleasant for the honest small presses who only want to put out a good product, make money, and enhance their standing in the community, but that's how things are right now.

I'd rather see neos erring on the side of caution and go slow to get there faster and in one piece. If that small press turns out to be one of the good guys, then everyone's happy about it. More power to ya!
wink.gif
 
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Jennifer Robins

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jenrob

Kasey Mackenzie said:
There's a world of difference between "sooner than 2 years" and this fall...i.e. 4-5 months from now.

if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.
As far as people I know, that is private. These people are in the broadcasting business and would not like it for me to divulge their names here.
I will be sending out more queries and not worry about all of this.

Bye,
Jennifer Robins
 

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Jennifer Robins said:
if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.
As far as people I know, that is private. These people are in the broadcasting business and would not like it for me to divulge their names here.
I will be sending out more queries and not worry about all of this.

Bye,
Jennifer Robins

What's private--the names of these broadcasters? Aren't they the 'pay for play' types many PA'er appeared on?
 

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well, *I've* got a copy of the Writers Market (that doesn't have PA in it, btw) and NOWHERE does it state that a publisher will guarantee that they'll have your book on the shelves within 6 months of acceptance. It'd be stupid for any company to make such a statement, given the industry. Since we both seem to have copies, why not tell me the names of these publishers and the pages they appear on in the latest edition, okay?

and who in the broadcasting industry knows more about the publishing industry than those, here, who PUBLISH the books?

you've got a great resource here in this board and you're ignoring it all for what some internet pay-to-play radio host babbles? Think about it...

really, you need to get your head out of your tush and do your research. If not, then going with PublishAmerica may end up as the least of your missteps as a writer.
 
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Jennifer Robins

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jenrob

Sassenach said:
What's private--the names of these broadcasters? Aren't they the 'pay for play' types many PA'er appeared on?

No they are not. If you go to my webosite and read the guest book you will have an idea. I have also been a guest on Xzone.com. You can find my interview in their archives for April.
www.jenniferrobins.com
 
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Kasey Mackenzie

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Jennifer Robins said:
if you spend the money for the writers market, you will find many publishers there who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance.

I choose not to spend money on writers market because I prefer to submit to large, reputable publishers and agencies which I can find plenty of information about for free. As for the publishers who will get a book out in 4 to 6 months after acceptance, I also prefer not to pay to publish.
 

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Some writers, because of age, don't have time to wait to see a book come out.
icon12.gif
If they take a stand such as this, then they should go the self-pub route.

Sorry Jen, no publisher is going to rush a book. If your getting your hopes up for a rush job, pull them back down.

Enjoyed seeing you last year at the Mid-West book fest.

Ken
 

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Gillhoughly said:
"Yes, you can go with a publisher who pays an advance and a percentage of the cover, but then you are talking going with one of the big NYC firms and that means having an agent and striking gold to get published. You always have a better shot at getting accepted by a small press. You have to trade off things sometimes. Get accepted faster (or at all) with a small press, but because they don't have deep pockets, you won't be sent on a nation-wide booksigning tour and have a DaVinci Code/Harry Potter-type advertisting budget. Or try for the brass ring and be the next DaVinci or Potter author. Best of luck!"

As it happens my first book sold right off the slush pile to one of those big NYC firms. No agent, just three chapters and an outline, same as all the other hopefuls. I was in agony for six weeks while they looked over the whole MS. But it DID happen and proved that though intimidating, it's not impossible to make such a sale.

They offered me a 6-book contract right out of the gate. I got an agent sometime after turning in my 4th novel so he could negotiate my next contract. Big as the NYC house is, it has never sent me on a book tour, and I do all of my own promotion. Only after signing a hardcover deal on my 11th title for them were they even interested in having a publicity photo of me. I'm presently mid-list, but grateful for it as it's more than most ever get. I'm not into trading off, but that's my choice.

Previous to that I did send my 1st MS to several small presses. The one that did want to sign me went bankrupt. These days small presses spring up and vanish like mushrooms, with scam artists by the dozen making the good guys look bad. Unpleasant for the honest small presses who only want to put out a good product, make money, and enhance their standing in the community, but that's how things are right now.

I'd rather see neos erring on the side of caution and go slow to get there faster and in one piece. If that small press turns out to be one of the good guys, then everyone's happy about it. More power to ya!
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Well that's really great that you were able to get picked up. You certainly are the exception to the rule!

Small publishers do spring up and die fairly quickly, and it's not always to scam authors, but it's usually because publishing--when done right--is expensive as hell and you need to watch the bottom line all the time. Small publishers run out of money quicker than anything and that's why they disappear. Without a good understanding of the business, and a good business plan, they won't succeed.

Dan
 

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saintnepal said:
Okay, I'm growling a bit here and feel the need to respond. I don't mean to slam Mundania (nor you, Dan.) I think Mundania is easily the best POD publisher out there, but some of the spin you guys put on things is, well, to be frank, misleading to me. Here's some of the things I find out of whack:

1) I'm a little troubled by the quote above. Here's something else Piers said about Mundania:
"No, I'm not running it, but have a financial interest in it."

If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels (Pornucopia in particular), then he's not an unbiased opinion and as such, really shouldn't be alluded to as unbiased as in bold above. He clearly states on his web site he has a financial interest in Mundania Press. And not only that, but look at his bibliography: http://www.hipiers.com/bibliography.html That leads me to point 2.


2) The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.

3) Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher", but every time they say it, they have quotation marks. It's contrary to prior prior statements. In one interview in August, 2004, Mr. Sanders says "Mundania Press is working with Lightning Source to remove this negative press (the neg. press was on POD in general, not Mundania of course). We achieve excellent results using POD processes." http://www.gottawritenetwork.com/mundania.html

I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright. Even if the author has a great book, it's going to have very little shelf life as a POD. That's probably hurting Mundania more than anything. If you did just small print runs and then marketed them to the stores, you could probably change the rep as being a POD publisher, because let's face it, I don't think anybody's going to change the rep of POD in general, at least not any time soon, and it's probably not only hurting sales, but you're also missing out on books because writers are steering away from POD. That's my opinion, but seems self-evident, though I acknowledge I don't know the costs involved in an initial print run and they may be such to preclude such action and maintain an "in the black" status end of year. Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.

Again, I'm not slamming Mundania. If an author is unable to land a traditional contract with a larger house, POD still can give it some life and Mundania is a good publisher, but just be aware of what your getting into. Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print on demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.
And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.

OK, let me take your message point-by-point after I make another point. Many people, such as you, use POD as a negative term. Publishers using that technology--and it is ONLY a printing technology--are given what is attempted to be a derogatory term "POD Publisher." Print-on-demand is a printing technology as is offset press. Print-on-demand is a new(er) method using computer technology which can literally print books as needed, thereby cutting down on the waste (since almost half of a print run is wasted) and cutting down on inventory--which is especially important for a small publisher who does not have the extra funds and the extra room for storing thousands of copies of books waiting for them to sell. You might be surprised to know that many larger publishing houses, such as Random House, use print-on-demand technology for some of their backlist books. In fact, there was a recent article in Publishers Weekly that stated that most of the larger publishing houses were considering print-on-demand for their backlist, as it will keep those books in print much longer than an initial print run. And this is particularly true because of the loss of the recent lawsuit. That will open the doors for print-on-demand technology to be used to print books without worrying about lawsuits. As it is now, when a print run is done, unless it sells out, the book is never printed again. Returned copies are destroyed (as only the covers are returned in the case of mass-market paperbacks). Because of vast improvements in technology, a good quality (good cover with lamination, fine paper, etc.) trade paperback produced by print-on-demand is virtually indistinguishable from an offset printed version. I know because we do both.

Yes, you heard correctly. We use both print-on-demand and offset press to print our books. Many of our books are done with print-on-demand, while more and more are being moved to offset press. The reason for this is multifold. a) Offset is certainly cheaper than print-on-demand. b) We are now using two distributors (also referred to as master distributor) to market, sell, and distribute some of our books. c) Bookstores like Barnes & Noble usually distain print-on-demand, mostly because early versions were poor quality and non-returnable. However, many bookstores are also changing their minds for print-on-demand that are returnable (and of good quality). A case in point is our erotic imprint, Phaze, has been accepted by Borders and now sits on Borders shelves--and they are printed using print-on-demand.

It is important that you truly understand all the facts before you make statements about us "putting a spin" on things and "misleading" people, including yourself. While we are not going to reveal confidential and proprietary information on this list, we have never attempted to mislead or put any spin on anything. All we have done is to attempt to explain the misunderstandings about print-on-demand that many people, including you, have about the printing method.

For a small publisher, as I have mentioned above, using print-on-demand technology makes a lot of sense. I've already gone over those reasons above (low inventory, low output of initial funds). Using print-on-demand allows a publisher to accept and publish more books and to put more money into artwork, editing, ads, etc.

Lightning Source is a print-on-demand printer (and oh, by the way, at BEA Lightning Source is introducing their offset printer program too--so you will no longer be able to "identify" what the printing technology is simply by knowing that Lightning Source printed the book).

Lightning Source does a VERY good job on all their books. We have received tons of praise about all our books and have never received one complaint or comment about their quality.

Lightning Source, being owned by Ingram's, gives a small publisher the "in" it needs to be distributed/wholesaled by Ingram's, something that most small publishers would NOT be able to do on their own if they used offset printing and tried to open an Ingram's account on their own. Why? Because Ingram's demands 55% discount, plus the publisher pays for shipping, plus the publisher pays for returns shipping, plus the publisher must maintain OVER $15,000 in wholesale sales PER TITLE or be dropped by Ingram's (or continue with a much larger discount (60-75%). Most small publishers don't sell $35,000 per book per month, which is what is needed to maintain the $15,000 (55%) wholesale requirements.

I hate to say it, but many authors have no clue as to all the stuff that publishers need to put up with when dealing with booksellers, printers, and distributors. Most feel the publishers sit back and rake in tons of cash while doling out tidbits to the authors. Taking into account our startup costs on a general book, on most books the authors actually make more "profit." I won't go into financial details, but trust me, this is generally true, especially when the publisher does print. That's why many small publishers will only do eBooks as the costs are much lower and the profits are higher.

Well enough on the soapbox. Let me address your points:

1) We are not responsible for the way Piers Anthony words his comments. Yes, he does have a financial interest in our company, just the same as every other author does. That's because we pay him a high amount of royalties every quarter. We have a few other authors that do earn as much as he does, but the majority of our authors do not. The ones that do are out hustling and selling.

Quoting you: "If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels"

Who said that? Piers didn't. Mundania Press was founded by me and Bob Sanders, and we each put in the money to start the company. Bob and I own Mundania Press, lock, stock, and bookshelf. No one else owns any piece of the company at all. Bob and I continue to own 100% of Mundania, Phaze, and New Classics Press.

2) Quoting you: The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.

Again you are misquoting and taking things out of context and drawing invalid conclusions. We have NEVER stated that any books we have are currently on the New York Times bestseller list. We stated, and it is true, that we now have authors that HAVE been on the New York Times bestseller list. That is something we are proud of, because frankly, most other small publishers DO NOT have best selling authors. Yes, we ARE re-publishing the bestselling authors' bestselling books. We've never denied that. The point here is that these authors TRUST Mundania enough to sign contracts with us. That alone speaks volumes for us. Wildside Press and Meisha Merlin are the other small publishers that come to mind that have acquired bestselling authors and are putting their books back into print.

Another point that you are missing though is that many of these authors are also contracting with us for NEWLY written books. Don Callander has given us his 'Mancer series (Pyromancer, Aquamancer, Geomancer, Aeromancer, and Marbleheart), his Companion series (Dragon Companion, Dragon Hunt, Dragon Tempest), and his Warlock's Bar & Grill that he self-published at Xlibris (which IS partially owned by Piers Anthony AND Random House). All of the above, with the exception of Warlock, was on the New York Times bestseller list. For your information, Don is writing a fourth book in the Companion series, a sixth book in the 'Mancer series, a sequel to Warlock, and two brand new novels--all of which Mundania will be publishing. And yes, we hope they will make it to the bestseller list.

Piers Anthony has given us reprint rights to Pornucopia, Macroscope, Omnivore, Orn, OX, and along with Robert Margroff, reprint rights to the Kelvin series (Dragon's Gold, Serpent's Silver, Chimaera's Copper, Orc's Opal, and Mouvar's Magic). Piers has also given us brand new books, Key to Havoc, Key to Chroma, Key to Destiny, Key to Liberty, The Magic Fart, and Tortoise Reform. Piers has NOT paid us to print his books. The money is coming out of my pocket, regardless of the way Piers has phrased it on his website. (By the way, I asked him about that--I've spent time with him in his home a few times--and he just shrugged and said it's true as we pay him money.) He simply meant that other authors may not make as much as he does, or may not make much money at all, and that is true too. His name draws a lot of sales alone. Also his comment was made when we were brand new and had never published any book yet.

Anne Logston has given us her 11 novels to reprint, all of which were on the New York Times bestseller list. She is working on ideas for new books as well.

Louise Cooper has given us 12 of her novels to reprint, and several of these have been rewritten by Louise. She has also written some new short stories for us.

We have all of Robert Adams' novels. His Coming of the Horseclans sold 3 million copies when it was released. Unfortunately, Robert passed away in 1990, so there won't be any new ones coming from him. Since he co-authored with Andre Norton, we were in talks with Andre and her agent about reprint rights when Andre passed away suddenly. So for now the talks are on hold.

My point here is that, yes, these authors well already bestsellers when they came to Mundania. We did not make them bestsellers. But your message twists what we have said to make it SOUND as if we made them bestsellers. We've never said that and for you to imply it is simply wrong. Our "message" is that these (already) bestseller authors have contacted and contracted with Mundania Press because they believe in what we are doing. They know we're an honest, hardworking small publisher and they feel they have a good chance of making money on their old books as well as their new ones. THAT's what we are saying. Will any new author that comes with us become a bestseller? The odds are against them, but if they do enough promotion, enough hustling, and build a big enough fan base, then anything can happen. Look at Christopher Paolini's Eragon. His dad started a small publisher just to publish that book and he was "discovered" after that. A bit of trivia that is related, when Christopher was offered a contract (with a $50K advance), he corresponded with Piers Antony, who told him to get an agent--who should be able to get a better offer. Christopher did and his agent got him a $250,000 advance and a guarantee for additional books--and now Eragon is being made into a movie.

It is unfair of you to single out small publishers in general, and us specifically, to warn authors away. We do have non-bestselling authors that make good money from us, and some of them do have books on shelves nationwide.

3) Quoting you: Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher"

We use the quotes because we want people to try to understand what this means. We ARE a traditional publisher. We are not a subsidy or vanity publisher. We review manuscripts (we receive between 350-400 a month now), and we accept only the best to be published. As a traditional publisher, the author never pays anything to be published. We pay everything--even for Piers Anthony. We do not normally pay advances, although we do pay advances to some of our authors. We do pay above average (when compared to the New York houses) for royalties. And what technology we use to print our books HAS NOTHING to do with who we are or how we do business. POD does not define a publisher--that's a popular misconception that you share with a lot of people. All we are trying to do is to educate people/authors to understand that print-on-demand is a technology to print books, not a way of life or a way to conduct business.

As I mentioned earlier, we do use print-on-demand for many of our books, as well as now using offset for select books that are going through distributors (not Ingram's or Baker & Taylor). We are using two different distributors, one for Mundania and one for New Classics Press. New Classics has one book, The Saints Bones, which was a print run, and is stocked in Barnes and Noble and Borders. I also mentioned that all of our Phaze print titles are now on Borders shelves, even though they are currently printed via print-on-demand. We're using another distributor for some new Mundania titles coming out that are also done in print runs using offset.

Quoting you: I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright.

Wow, you could not be more wrong. Again you are simply making assumptions on rumors that you've heard. Our books are reviewed in Romantic Times, Locus, and several other magazines, as well as having "well-known" reviewers reviewing them. Reviewers don't give a rat's behind how a book is printed. In fact, I'll be willing to bet you that I could place two books, one print-on-demand and one offset printed into a reviewer's hands and they would be hard pressed to guess which is which. And stores are also stocking print-on-demand, as long as they are returnable--and all of Mundania's titles are fully returnable, always have been.

We've had new authors reach success. Not the New York Times bestseller list of course, as we already said, but one of our authors is consistently rated around 8,000 on Amazon, and his book has been accepted reading by a half-dozen schools around the US, and that list is growing. We went back and reissued his book in hardcover because we had so much demand from libraries for it. How is this done? His book is good. The quality is good. And he hustles with booksignings and promotions for his book. Any author can do that if they are willing to roll up their sleeves and promote their book. Your job isn't done when your book is done.

Quoting you: And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.

We don't name the books. The authors name them. That's the name Piers Anthony wanted for it, so that's the one that was used.

Quoting you: Again, I'm not slamming Mundania.

Sorry, but it sure looks that way. You attempt to define our company and discredit us by labeling us "POD" and knowingly announcing that our authors are paying us to publish our books because your "research" on us has given you sound bytes and quotes that you are able to twist to fit your hypothesis and pre-conceived notion of our company. Mundania Press is a traditional publisher in every sense of the word and we meet every criterion to be called traditional. You should do a LOT more research on POD to understand that it is a printing technology, not a business methodology.

Quoting you: Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print-on-demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.

Again you are simply wrong. I just don't understand your confusion over this. Where do you get your information? We ship books to Barnes & Noble and Borders, along with independent bookstores ALL THE TIME for author book signings. You are once again simply making blanket statements based on your own prejudice with no facts to back you up other than your ability to twist posted sound bites. Whether we use quotes on our website or not, or whether you attempt to interpret what someone else has said in an offhand comment does not provide you with the proof you need to make wild guesses about how we operate.

Quoting you: Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.

And that is because of people like you, who post these same incorrect “warnings” over and over again, going along with the flow regardless of how you are wrong. You perpetuate the myth and misunderstandings, and make sure that POD keeps its evil connotation. When something is repeated often enough, even though it is wrong, people will believe it. All you are really doing is a disservice to authors by getting them to join the "POD is bad" party line. You should really spend some of your time reading articles from Publishers Weekly to find out more about print-on-demand technology and how all the big publishers are now eyeing it, especially since the lawsuit was dismissed. You might find in the very near future that those very same publishers that you are recommending will be using print-on-demand to keep their backlist alive and available--something that will greatly benefit every author. If an author’s book never goes out of print, it could literally sell forever.

Mundania has always gone out of its way to set the record straight and to try to educate our authors, and all authors about the reality in the publishing business. We've answered every question honestly and to the best of our ability. According to you, we’ve attempted to put a spin on certain things--which is exactly what you are guilty of doing too. You may feel your spin is more legitimate than ours, and that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, regardless of how wrong it is.

My advice to all authors reading this list is to do your homework and don't listen to innuendoes and suppositions based on someone's pre-conceived notions about the publishing business when they don't have the true facts, nor understand what they are talking about. Research the publishing industry. Find the facts, not the myths. If you find a publisher that you want to submit your manuscript, then research them. What is their Preditors & Editors rating (we placed as the # 6 publisher this past year and are rated as RECOMMENDED). Is the publisher a good fit for your novel? What does the publisher currently sell? Maybe buy one of their books to see for yourself the quality they produce (quality inside and out). Choose the publisher that best fits with what your novel is all about. You’ll have a better chance of being publisher that way.

If anyone, ever, has any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]. We’ll answer your questions swiftly and honestly. We do that because we want to stay in this business and the only way that can happen is to deal honestly and fairly with our authors.

Dan
 

triceretops

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Ha, ha, Chris you're funny. Looks like he's truly an AWer, now. Perhaps if we shut our mouths, he'll get back to reading our scripts.

Actually, I've held Mundania a little higher on the roster than the other smaller publishers. I even suggested my agent give them a buzz/query. With the current glut in the industry I'd be damn lucky to land with them.

I'm only distressed to see Mundania (along with many others) doing so MANY friggin reprints on old titles. But that's business, and that's the number one priority of any house. I only hope in the future that the cash cow that might be derived from selling all these reprints might let more than a few new authors into the fold.

Tri