Ezine published without permission

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King Neptune

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An ezine that I submitted a short story to back in 2013 published it as part of their July issue without informing me or receiving any actual permission. Should I sue the clown who runs it? Or is it more practical to add it to my publications list and just bad mouth it whenever possible?

I have never heard of even an ezine that so unprofessional that they would publish without permission. Is this common, or did I hit the one in a thousand?
 
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veinglory

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I have had this happen to me. My decision was to roll with it but formalize the terms including the length of their exclusive publishing rights in a follow up email.
 

Fruitbat

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I've had it happen twice, that I recall. I told the editors so hopefully they'd pay closer attention in the future, then just counted them as credits and moved on. I think that, while rather bone-headed, in these cases they were honest mistakes and no harm intended or really received, either. Lawsuits are based on money and there usually just isn't enough (if any) involved to bother with it anyway, imo.
 

Jamesaritchie

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An ezine that I submitted a short story to back in 2013 published it as part of their July issue without informing me or receiving any actual permission. Should I sue the clown who runs it? Or is it more practical to add it to my publications list and just bad mouth it whenever possible?

I have never heard of even an ezine that so unprofessional that they would publish without permission. Is this common, or did I hit the one in a thousand?

You submitted the story to them. This means you agreed to whatever the guidelines say. If there is no pay, and their guidelines state this, submitting the story is giving them permission to publish it. Without knowing what their guidelines say, it's impossible to make any real decision.

But, look, you need to know what terms a magazine of any kinds asks for, how much they pay, what rights they want, when and how they publish stories before you submit a story to them. If you don't, you're the one who goofed and did something unprofessional.

Either way, you can't bad mouth a magazine, AND use it as a credit. Not that this magazine is credit worthy, anyway. It sounds like one an editor would laugh at. But even with a well-known magazine, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, "THis magazine is cmpletely unprofessional, but I have a credit in it."
 

King Neptune

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I have had this happen to me. My decision was to roll with it but formalize the terms including the length of their exclusive publishing rights in a follow up email.

That's essentially what I decided a little while ago, but I'm waiting for them to get back to me.
 

King Neptune

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You submitted the story to them. This means you agreed to whatever the guidelines say. If there is no pay, and their guidelines state this, submitting the story is giving them permission to publish it. Without knowing what their guidelines say, it's impossible to make any real decision.

Submitting a story is a request that it be published. In itself and by the guidelines submission was not permission.

But, look, you need to know what terms a magazine of any kinds asks for, how much they pay, what rights they want, when and how they publish stories before you submit a story to them. If you don't, you're the one who goofed and did something unprofessional.

I read the guidelines, and I did not grant permission.
 

King Neptune

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I've had it happen twice, that I recall. I told the editors so hopefully they'd pay closer attention in the future, then just counted them as credits and moved on. I think that, while rather bone-headed, in these cases they were honest mistakes and no harm intended or really received, either. Lawsuits are based on money and there usually just isn't enough (if any) involved to bother with it anyway, imo.

In this case, I doubt that it was anything except a boneheaded editor not checking documentation, but there are non-monetary damages.

I decided what I want from the magazine, and if they agree, then it will be a learning experience for both sides.
 

veinglory

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In any case you are not likely to get anything from them but a post hoc agreement as to type/duration of the rights they have the the story. IMHO going beyond that is likely to lead to unpleasantness with little to be gained from it.
 

King Neptune

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In any case you are not likely to get anything from them but a post hoc agreement as to type/duration of the rights they have the the story. IMHO going beyond that is likely to lead to unpleasantness with little to be gained from it.

That's what I was hoping for, but the editor just took it down from the site. Apparently he doesn't realize that he did something wrong, and that bothers me. I regard what he did as theft, but he seems not to.
 

Hapax Legomenon

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I am confused as well. Did you think this was a dead letter and then submit elsewhere, so you have some kind of single-sub/first publication conflict?
 

Polenth

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I'm confused, Mr. Neptune.

When you submitted, what did you want--a rejection letter?

If they want to publish it, an acceptance letter. Agreeing on rights is the minimum I'd expect from a market, and I'd much prefer that to be in the form of a signed contract. When we send stories, we're agreeing to have that story considered for publication. We're not agreeing to have no say in what happens to the story in the future. The final agreement to the contract terms should be in the hands of the writer.
 

veinglory

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That's what I was hoping for, but the editor just took it down from the site. Apparently he doesn't realize that he did something wrong, and that bothers me. I regard what he did as theft, but he seems not to.

Well that resolves the situation anyway. Probably a market to avoid. Not everyone here seems to agree, but I strongly feel that rights are passed to a publisher by signed contract. Submitting a work for consideration is not the same as selling it unless the submission portal clearly states as much--in which case I won't be submitting there.
 

King Neptune

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I'm confused, Mr. Neptune.

When you submitted, what did you want--a rejection letter?

I was expecting to be informed that my story was acceptable, and I had to return permission for them to publish. Polenth gave a nice little summary of how things go when a story is accepted.

My thanks to Polenth.
 
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King Neptune

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I am confused as well. Did you think this was a dead letter and then submit elsewhere, so you have some kind of single-sub/first publication conflict?

They published without permission. That's what bothers me. It is a violation of my copyright to publish my work without permission from me. What's confusing about that? You might want to look at U.S. copyright law, where you would see that they violated copyright law.

I also submitted it to two other places since I assumed that it was a dead end, and I got a regular rejection from one of those.

Here is a summary from the copyright office.
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ01.pdf
 
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King Neptune

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Well that resolves the situation anyway. Probably a market to avoid. Not everyone here seems to agree, but I strongly feel that rights are passed to a publisher by signed contract. Submitting a work for consideration is not the same as selling it unless the submission portal clearly states as much--in which case I won't be submitting there.

Some people seem to think that rights are passed when a publisher wants them, but U.S. copyright law clearly says that there has to be an actual grant of rights, but (rather oddly) the grant does not have to be by written contract. If I sent an email saying "Sure you can publish it on your site for three months," that is adequate, and a verbal agreement is also legally acceptable. If the submission guidelines or other submission portal said something like what you menetioned, then I would not have submitted it. I have too much experience with real estate, so I am accustomed everything being in writing.
 
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alexshvartsman

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I'm really surprised that some folks in this thread are blaming King Neptune and equate him submitting the story to an agreement of publication. They are very clearly not the same.

Most venues do not post their contract online. When an acceptance is received, it is supposed to be followed by the contract, which spells out *exactly* what rights the market is acquiring. This is true even of the non-paying markets, because there are still permissions to be discussed (such as the length of time they may display the story, a period of exclusivity, etc.) These contracts can then be negotiated until both parties are satisfied.

Besides, all kinds of things might happen between the time you submit a story and a time it's accepted (or rejected). The market might release its first issue and it's so awful you no longer want to appear there (I've withdrawn a submission for this reason.) An editor might turn out to be a jerk and say things on social media that will prompt you to withdraw your submission. Or, you might have learned as a writer that you should not submit to a market this crappy and choose not to publish with them even if they want the story.

And Neptune, I encourage you to share the market name with others, so they can avoid the pitfall of submitting there until the editor(s) change their policies in this regard.
 

King Neptune

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I'm really surprised that some folks in this thread are blaming King Neptune and equate him submitting the story to an agreement of publication. They are very clearly not the same.

Not as surprised as I was.

Most venues do not post their contract online. When an acceptance is received, it is supposed to be followed by the contract, which spells out *exactly* what rights the market is acquiring. This is true even of the non-paying markets, because there are still permissions to be discussed (such as the length of time they may display the story, a period of exclusivity, etc.) These contracts can then be negotiated until both parties are satisfied.

Besides, all kinds of things might happen between the time you submit a story and a time it's accepted (or rejected). The market might release its first issue and it's so awful you no longer want to appear there (I've withdrawn a submission for this reason.) An editor might turn out to be a jerk and say things on social media that will prompt you to withdraw your submission. Or, you might have learned as a writer that you should not submit to a market this crappy and choose not to publish with them even if they want the story.

Yes, acceptance is followed with a the terms and conditions and the agreement, but it doesn't have to be very formal. The U.S. Copyright law doesn't require a written contract unless all rights are being transferred. But if you are only granting certain, specified rights, then you have to be sure that it is clear that only those specified rights are being sold, and it isn't easy to do that in a phone conversation.

And Neptune, I encourage you to share the market name with others, so they can avoid the pitfall of submitting there until the editor(s) change their policies in this regard.

The online magazine is [FONT=&quot]MYSTERICALE.COM, which is owned by a [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Joseph DeMarco[/FONT]. Additional information is available from whois on godaddy.com.
 

TellMeAStory

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Originally Posted by alexshvartsman
I'm really surprised that some folks in this thread are blaming King Neptune and equate him submitting the story to an agreement of publication. They are very clearly not the same.

Actually, Mr. alexshvartsman, not so "clearly not the same." If you know nothing about the world of publishing, you come here to AW to learn.
 
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