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Institute for Writers (formerly Long Ridge Writers Group / Writer's Institute, Inc.)

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us
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The University of Tennessee went to practical writing for commercial in the mid-seventies when they hired Jon Machip White (a novelist, film writer and continuity editor for movies like El Cid and 55 Days at Peking) to help revamp their MFA and creative writing programs. Jon was a professor of mine at UTEP and I took two courses from him before he moved to U of Tennessee. He's an emeritus professor in his eighties now, but the program continues to enlist actual commercial successes as faculty. So I think that's a good choice.

Regards,
Scott
 

MsRuthie

Don't go through with Long Ridge Writers Group

I was a student for the Long Ridge Writers Group course. I would not recommend it to anyone for these reasons;

(1) The course material is old and outdated (Try 10 years+)

(2) After you mail in an assignment, the instructor writes you back and the help you get is minimal. The information is general and the instructor doesn't take the time to completely answer your question. If you need clarification, you have to write to the Group and they will mail your question to the instructor.... you will get your answer...2-3 weeks later.

(3) The instructor doesn't keep your file on hand. I once couldn't read a handwritten note on my manuscript from my instructor and I asked if she could tell me what she wrote. Well, she didn't have my file, so I never recieved an answer.

(4) The material is so general. If you want good how-to books, ask other writers which ones they would recommend.

(5) For the money, the quality of material and instruction is not worth it. I was not satisfied with results.

I am withdrawing from the course, I hope they can at least keep their end of the bargain and refund my money.
 

Sheenawrites

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I guess I am coming in late on this topic. I am a student of Long Ridge. I like the school. The important thing there is who your instructor is. Mine sends me feed back and writes me letters and e-mails. She also sugests where to send the stories. And, she has live forums for students every Tuesday at the site. Just my two cents. Sheen
 

Jacquelinediamond

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I'd just like to add something. I've been an instructor for Long Ridge for about a year and a half, and I take my responsibilities to my students very seriously. I've published more than 80 novels, including romance, mystery and fantasy -- you can check me out at www.jacquelinediamond.com.
Long Ridge works hard to train their instructors and to weed out any who aren't doing a good job. If you do sign up and aren't satisfied, you can request a transfer.
 

EFCollins

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I found this old thread trying to find information on this course. I've heard from several others that the course is well worth it, the institute itself reputable, and the instruction for the adult fiction/non-fiction course was unmatched. I thought that since so many authors (many of which wouldn't associate their name with something less than reputable, I would think) and editors are instructors, that it would be worth it. I take it this is not true? (I even met someone who'd failed their test and denied enrollment opportunities). I did pass the test, but I knew I would because I had once before, for the Children's writing course. I mostly want to take it to learn how to market my work. Good idea or bad?
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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I found this old thread trying to find information on this course. I've heard from several others that the course is well worth it, the institute itself reputable, and the instruction for the adult fiction/non-fiction course was unmatched. I thought that since so many authors (many of which wouldn't associate their name with something less than reputable, I would think) and editors are instructors, that it would be worth it. I take it this is not true? (I even met someone who'd failed their test and denied enrollment opportunities). I did pass the test, but I knew I would because I had once before, for the Children's writing course. I mostly want to take it to learn how to market my work. Good idea or bad?

Honestly? At the end of the day it's up to you. But I would ask myself if there's anything this course offers that you can't get elsewhere. You talk about marketing your work - are you talking in the context of trying to get an agent or publisher, or how to sell your work after publication? If the former, I'd say the course isn't worth it. This site has a number of fantastic (and free!) resources on how to improve your query, grammar and spelling, and books to help you improve your writing overall. Beta readers are also an asset, as is posting excerpts in the SYW forum. While it's nice to have an instructor, eventually you have to learn how to edit your own work. For me, the SYW forum helped tremendously and now I recognize the errors in my own work. But you have to find what works for you really, so I would suggest looking around this site and then branching out before taking a course. Just my suggestion though.

If you're taking it for the latter (promoting your work after publication), I'd say it's still likely not worth it. Not at this time, anyway. If you have no ms to send out, there's no reason right now to figure out how to market it. One step at a time.

From first glance, it does sort of sound like the value all depends on who you get, so it's kind of like playing Russian Roulette. If you get a good instructor, it may be worth it. If you get a bad one who can only say 'hey this is great!' then you've wasted your money and gotten nothing. Personally, in these times not a risk I'd like to take. So I'd say look around AW first in the grammar forums, query section, whatever it is you're looking for first and see if you find the help you want there. There's no reason to pay for something if you can get it for free.
 

EFCollins

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There's no reason to pay for something if you can get it for free.

I hear you, there! I was thinking to take it simply because I don't know how to market my work at all. I can write a good query, my synopses all need work, but the main thing is just knowing who to target. I just don't know who to look at for publishers or agents. I've gotten some good feedback, but have nearly jumped in the shark tanks a couple of times just because of inexperience. It's hard to know who's reputable and who's scum.
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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I hear you, there! I was thinking to take it simply because I don't know how to market my work at all. I can write a good query, my synopses all need work, but the main thing is just knowing who to target. I just don't know who to look at for publishers or agents. I've gotten some good feedback, but have nearly jumped in the shark tanks a couple of times just because of inexperience. It's hard to know who's reputable and who's scum.

Well, that's actually pretty easy :)

-go to the bookstore and look at books in your genre. Note who the publishers are, and in some cases the author mentions their agent (not always; it's not a requirement). Chances are if a publisher's on that shelf they're a good publisher.

-ALWAYS target to publishers and agents in your genre. Don't ever query an agent who doesn't rep fantasy or mystery if that's not what you're querying. Agentquery.com is a great place to look for agents who rep your genre as is Preditors & Editors. And the latter will list who to avoid as well. But always ALWAYS double check agents on P&E with threads here. And if someone has a Not Recommended, they got it for a reason. Don't waste your time.

-Look through this section of the forum. Read through the threads of each publisher and agent you're looking at to get a feel as to whether they're reputable or not.

-Inexperienced agents are as bad as scam agents and worse than having no agent. Not that they will be out to rip you off, but if they don't know what they're doing they're wasting your time. Don't be a guinea pig. If you go with a new agency, go with one that was started by someone who worked at a legit agency and branched out on his/her own. Same goes for publishers. No amount of good intentions will sell your book.
 

TNWriter

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Long Ridge Writers Group

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this.


I'm wondering if anyone has taken a course at Long Ridge Writers Group and then asked for your money back. They have a 100% guarantee or your money back. Just curious as to the results. I have one more assignment then will be going through the process.

Thanks for any information.

TNWriter
 

Susan Gable

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I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this.


I'm wondering if anyone has taken a course at Long Ridge Writers Group and then asked for your money back. They have a 100% guarantee or your money back. Just curious as to the results. I have one more assignment then will be going through the process.

Thanks for any information.

TNWriter

So...do you mean you're unhappy with the program, want your money back, but you plan to complete your final assignment and get your feedback FIRST, before you ask for your money back?

Susan G.
 

TNWriter

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Yes. I tried to get out after two months, but it was going to cost me 300 dollars. I decided at that cost to go ahead and give it a try. I don't feel that I've gained much of anything from the course. I still have to pay for the materials. The interaction with an instructor by mail just left alot to be desired. I received feedback, but don't feel that it really helped me improved. The market side of the course was really common sense stuff. I'm waiting for response on one assignment and have one to go. These last two are suppose to be the most important assignment. Producing two publishable manuscripts.

I will say my first assignment I sent got my instructors approval to send out to the market. Maybe the problem is I was already past the point of needing this course. No I still haven't had anything published, but they are sitting on desks somewhere waiting to be read.

I may change my mind by the end of the course. At this point, I'm not 100% satisfied.
 

billyf027

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I quit after a few months. I learned some things about writing short stories but felt such a disconnect. It was impossible to contact the teacher and in the ultra fast modern age of texts and emails it seemed primitive. Everything took too long. I also feared that the actual writer/teacher was not correcting what I wrote but some student. Mostly, because I found mistakes I made that they missed during their edit. There was no way to prove it either way. I did have short stories published after that but wouldn't recommend it. I did get some money back when I quit.
 

TNWriter

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Yes, you've summed up my experience. Like I mentioned above, I was going to get out after two months, but I was paying monthly payments and was going to have to keep paying to reach the 300 that they wanted for not opting out within 30 days. I wouldn't say it's a total sham, it just hasn't been beneficial to myself.
 

TNWriter

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Just wanted to give you guys a quick update. I requested a refund and was sent a check for the full amount.
 

cwgranny

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I wanted to post again on the Institute because of a couple comments. When I first came to this board for the very first time, I was not involved in the Institute. Now I am. I teach several courses in the children's area. I've written a course. I write their free email newsletter. I answer questions from aspiring writers all day long via email (for free). I'm heavily personally invested in helping writers who want to be published get that way -- but sometimes I also gently steer people away.

As an instructor, I'm not the student's spell checker or grammar checker. If I have a student who HONESTLY and clearly doesn't know some specific grammar rules -- I will explain them and give examples and mark them every time I see them. If I have a student who's just being lazy and not checking their own papers but I know full well they know the rules, I don't mark everything. I'll mark some of it -- and eventually I'll give the person a little lecture on the importance of actually checking over your work. The idea is to send the instructor what you would send to an editor so the instructor can help you with WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW -- not what you didn't bother to do.

Most of my instruction is about WRITING -- how to strengthen characterization, appropriate use of specific detail, plot, point of view, theme, didacticism, voice, dialogue, etc. I'm supposed to teach folks how to write for publication. Sure, for students who don't know a specific grammar rule about verb tenses or how to handle run-on sentences, that means I need to explain it to them -- that's part of writing instruction for that person. But for students who just send me rough drafts and don't check over their work -- that means a general lecture on being careful and a few spots marked...I'm not their human spelling/grammar checker.

I don't want my instruction on the REAL stuff of writing a good story to be lost in endless mark-ups on spelling/grammar for students who actually do know how to do that (again, I never ever mind helping students who are really struggling with a specific bit of grammar or word use or punctuation and need instruction and examples).

Are there other paths to publication that are just as valid as ICL? -- sure, TONS of them. And some of them may be MORE VALID than the Institute for YOU. Each of them will work brilliantly for some people and not so well for others. Distance learning works brilliantly for some people and not so well for others. Learning by pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps and seeking out information and crit groups works brilliantly for some people and not so well for others. Face-to-face courses in college work brilliantly for some people and not so well for others. We each have to find the path that works for US...I was a bootstrapper myself (I have a Journalism degree but it did nothing to help prep me for writing for children except to teach me to write short -- which is pretty valuable -- though I also had to unlearn a lot to go from newspaper writing to writing for children).

The Institute courses are NOT the right path for everyone, but for those who found real success at it (and I get emails from folks who did every single day), it was a good path. But every path is going to require things from you -- some of them are going to be hard things. You need to pick your path and then you need to be ready for real WORK.

Now, I didn't put this in to convince folks to take Institute courses. This thread makes it really really clear that they don't work for everyone. Distance learning is NOT the right road for everyone. Before you BEGIN to consider it -- you need to ask yourself some serious questions:
__ Do I learn well from text? Some folks are audio learners -- if you are, distance learning isn't going to work NEARLY as well as taking face-to-face classes and going to conferences and workshops. But if you find you read and retain well, it might be an option.
__ Do I tend to resist instruction? Some folks don't like being told what to do -- if that's you, you're probably a bootstrapper. Nothing gives you more freedom and flexibility than learning by pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. You'll go to conference, read books, and take away only what you want from each thing. So things like MFA programs, college courses, and distance learning will seem rigid and expensive since you'll be resisting the whole time.
__ Do you need a lot of social interaction? If so, a college course where you have actual classmates or joining face-to-face writing/critique groups are going to be much better for you. The give and take will involve more people and more voices. Distance learning is going to seem cold and frustrating.

The best way to choose any learning journey is to look at yourself first and see what kind of learner you are and thus plan what kind of system will work best for your needs and style.
 

ThomasJqz

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I recommend Long Ridge Writers Group.

I am, currently, on Assignment #5 of the Long Ridge Writers Course. I agree with everything that cwgranny wrote on the thread #45 9-02-09.
I took two courses with another long-distance school based in Australia prior to LRWG. Therefore, I had some knowledge of the kind of course I was looking for. However, I still had concerns about the course they were offering; especially if they were just a fly-by-night course, so naturally I was concerned when I didn’t receive my package within the 30 days after enrollment. When I emailed LRWG, they informed me that the package was returned. Of course, I -- being the suspicious American that I am-- didn’t really believe them, but I also knew that Hong Kong has some tricky addresses when they are not written down correctly (FYI: Don’t write CHINA if you are mailing to HONG KONG). I sent them an old shipping slip from another company to verify the address, and LRWG resent the package. When I received the package I couldn’t help but smile, it was a medium-size, heavy box with more books and teaching materials I could have ever imagined inside. Well, the rest is present history. I recommend Long Ridge Writers Group.
The reason, I am on Absolute Write today, was to read some beware threads on AWAI.
 

Maxinquaye

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I personally distrust those kinds of things, but that's just me. I repeat, that's just me.

Like I distrust writer's circles. The last one I was involved with was terrible. You had two very nice ladies who took exception to everything the others wrote, and expounded on the fact that writing should be inspirational.

You had one man that wanted to expose the hypocrisy and conspiracy at the center of the labour government, in belaboured passive prose.

And you had a couple of guys and women like me that sat there with a stiff polite smiles and wondered when the HELL we could get out of there without being total jerks. We did have a few nice lagers afterwards.

I imagine the same can be true for workshops, but I don't really know, so I will shut up about it, and just wave the flag that you should really check it out good before signing up.
 

Kalyke

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There are a few threads on this site that mention it: Here is one

I think things like this are what the writer makes of them. Three people in a broom closet can get a lot done too if they are the right people. If you are ready to write a novel, you will write one. They cannot write a novel for you, no promise you will write one. I think the idea that you can get college credit from it is useful. You need to be able to pay for the cost of living there too. I think these writing workshop/retreats are great things. They link you into a community, allow you to meet new people, and are like little working vacations.
 
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ORION

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A workshop is only as good as the authors who teach it. If you need help with learning to write (basics) - an official college course either online or in person is worth the cost.
If you want to learn about writing with respect to getting published then you need to work with someone who has actually published something.
You need diligent research. The back of Poets and Writers is a good place to start...
 

ORION

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By the way I'm not convinced about the legitimacy of this one...someone submitted my name to them as a joke and they wouldn't stop sending me stuff- it was obvious they didn't read any of the correspondence I send back ... as in 'I'm already published and have no interest in your program' and they sent me a 'personal' letter from the head instructor about that I was 'chickening out' and not pursuing my 'dream' of writing a novel - that I needed to be brave etc. etc.
it was really quite funny.
 

mgarwood

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I just completed the Longridge course

I completed the course a couple of weeks ago and feel that I am a much better writer. Their staff was less than friendly and seemed overworked on the few occasions that I talked to them, but my instructor was excellent and really was interested in my achieving success. She was also interested in all aspects of my growing as a writer. When I told her back in July that I had joined Absolute Write, this is what she had to say.

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for bringing Absolute Write to my attention. I took a quick look at the site and I am amazed. This looks like an awesome place for writers to hang out online. I’m going to go back later and check out a couple of things that caught my eye, particularly the taped panel on e-book publishing since my editor at Harlequin, Malle Vallik is one of the panelists. She’s one of the smartest women I’ve ever met in publishing, plus she’s a super person.[/FONT]
 

Ilovepensandpaper

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Well, I just wrote inquiring about Long Ridge Writing Group (I deleted my post when I found this thread, and before I could delete it, a mod had moved it). It appears there are varying opinions about LR. It doesn't appear to be a scam. I am looking into LR to see if it is better to just take classes with it that go to grad school for creative writing at some point in time (especially after I get my writer's mentality back). Great information to take in...
 

Annayna

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I've been accepted twice, not sure if I want to go through it. The school isnt so far from me but I dunno