MH17 Malaysia airlines plane shot down over Ukraine

CNN recently said that there was a Surface to Air missile radar system that was switched on moments before the flight was lost, and another radar picked up a heat signature moving toward the plane.

Noah Body said:

Radar guided missiles usually hit the RCS of the aircraft, which is usually where the wings meet the fuselage. Contact almost always occurs, if not by the warhead then by the rocket booster itself, which is designed to serve as a kinetic kill weapon. An ADA guy could give more info.

That aside, still ample opportunity for secondary explosions upon main body impact with the deck.

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The missiles unit did not have radar. Russian air defense armour work in squadrons with a lead who operates the radar. Among BUKs, that is a BUK-TELAR system. The unit in Snizhnoe did not have the BUK-TELAR, but the underling system of BUK-TEL which means that it has visual sights and a laser, not much to read squawks or what not.

melindamusil said:

I heard one of the talking heads say that, if the explosion had originated inside the airplane, the debris would be spread over a much larger area. He felt it was more likely that something hit the plane and broke it up just enough for it to lose any ability to glide, causing it to fall straight to the ground.

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That's wrong. The debris field caused by a 120 pound warhead exploding and sending shrapnel through the aircraft would rip it apart. The debris field would be substantial. Just the slipstream effect of air crossing over damaged airframe would increase the damage, and the dynamic forces, on the aircraft itself. It would be peeled apart.

That being said, the aircraft appears to have been flying on a cardinal route, and to my eye, there was one forty to fifty mile deviation.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/07/world/malaysia-mh17-map/index.html

Xelebes said:

The missiles unit did not have radar. Russian air defense armour work in squadrons with a lead who operates the radar. Among BUKs, that is a BUK-TELAR system. The unit in Snizhnoe did not have the BUK-TELAR, but the underling system of BUK-TEL which means that it has visual sights and a laser, not much to read squawks or what not.

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I'll take your word for it. I'm not an ADA guy. Regardless, the dynamics of a missile engagement remain the same. I've only fired ATAS in training and AGM-114s in the real world, but it looks like the aircraft took a hot one.

I'm not an ADA guy, I just have good sources.

Being able to read a little Ukrainian helps.

That's a heavy hit for the Netherlands losing all those families going off on holiday due to what was probably a horrendous brutal mistake.

dantefrizzoli said:

CNN recently said that there was a Surface to Air missile radar system that was switched on moments before the flight was lost, and another radar picked up a heat signature moving toward the plane.

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OK. So it either was or was not a radar-guided platform, or alternately, a laser warning receiver went off somewhere, indicating laser ranging was being used. Jesus, no one knows shit about this.

Among the dead were AIDS researchers heading to the International AIDS Conference in Melbourne. Up to 100 or more.

Just read about the AIDS researchers. That just might have set us back in that department.

Shooting down commercial aircrafts set us back in the department of, you know, humanity.

In what universe would you imagine while flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that you could possibly get shot down?

I wonder what the consequences will be? More sanctions? Or stern looks? Or will the US actually want to intervene now? What about the NATO?

Etc.

I had a friend flying out of Amsterdam; I nearly had a coronary. Thankfully, after about 12 hours of mind-numbing panic, she was able to call me back. Others have friends and family who won't be so lucky, and it kills me.

This is horrible, and absolutely unacceptable on a number of levels ... but I don't imagine there's going to be any repercussions for the guilty party(parties).

veinglory said:

That's a heavy hit for the Netherlands losing all those families going off on holiday due to what was probably a horrendous brutal mistake.

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People are pretty shaken up.

My heart goes out to everyone who had loved ones on that plane.

amergina said:

BBC News, in their live feed, is reporting that Ukrainian Security Service SBU intercepted conversations between pro-Russian militants in which they say they admit shooting down a civilian plane.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-28354787

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Found the intercept. Sadly, it's in Ukrainian. Does anyone understand it?

Teinz said:

Found the intercept. Sadly, it's in Ukrainian. Does anyone understand it?

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This report from the ABC (Australia) includes a translation (Youtube video about half way down) and a transcript.

A friend of mine was supposed to be on that flight originally. He rescheduled his flight to come home 2 days earlier in order to save $400 bucks. He showed me a picture of the MH17 boarding pass - I could barely process what he told me!

There are going to be continuous coreection and new info for a couple of days or so, a lot of them spinning into the story. My guess is that, in the end, it'll be a Russian missile ( though that doesn't put the Russians to blame) fired by a semi trained crew of rebels. They probably didn't even try to identify what it was and figured it had to be their 'enemy'.
Obama is under the gun to find somebody to blame, which is an unfair expectation fueled by his abysmal performance in the world of international leadership.
The 24/7's will be busy for a few days and in about a month the whole thing will be forgotten by those not directly effected.

I disagree. These kind of crashes are not quickly forgotten even when purely accidental. And it was full of people from countries across the world including apparent my own. The people of the Netherlands, Indonesia, Canada, Australia and all those other countries will not stop digging any time soon. No way. It did not have to be my family member in that plane when it could so easily have been me. I am waiting to learn the names of those that happen to be my countrymen and I will remember them.

I worry that's what will happen though. It has happened to many things lately. A lot of news, then nothing and forgotten. Yes, the people affected will remember, the world will not. It might take a few more weeks to be forgotten than other things... but that's what will happen.

I'm worried it will be shown that it was rebels, armed by Russia.. trained by Russians, to a certain extent supervised by Russians.. and the USA and the NATO and everyone will speak of sanctions and look sternly at Putin and demand change. And that's it. That's where it stops.

And everything continues..

However I hope @veinglory is right!

Name a large passenger plane crash with, to put it bluntly, Western passengers, that was forgotten in a month. I don't think there has even been one because the investigation itself takes longer than that, so it keeps being a story.

Add to that how pissed some of the world leaders are. The Australian PM is trampling all over protocol to express that he feels quite sure where the blame lies.

veinglory said:

Add to that how pissed some of the world leaders are. The Australian PM is trampling all over protocol to express that he feels quite sure where the blame lies.

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Although not to the point of withdrawing the invitation to the Russian trade minister for meetings this month or to Putin for the G20 summit later this year.

Albedo said:

Among the dead were AIDS researchers heading to the International AIDS Conference in Melbourne. Up to 100 or more.

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This whole thing just keeps getting worse and worse.

Helix said:

Although not to the point of withdrawing the invitation to the Russian trade minister for meetings this month or to Putin for the G20 summit later this year.

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Hopefully he will find his other ball and do that.

This woman in Australia lost family members in both Malaysian Airlines incidents.

No words.

http://www.kjrh.com/news/world/mh37...bers-in-both-doomed-malaysia-airlines-flights

Apparently there's a Dutch cyclist, Marten De Jonge, that had a boarding pass to BOTH flights. The first time he ended up taking an earlier flight and the 2nd time he took a later flight to save cost.

I'd feel like something was after me if I was him.