Canadian Clinic: No Non-Whitey Sperm for Whitey

William Haskins said:

could it be i am one of your socks as well, and i have gained (semi) sentience?

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Shhhhh.

Say that loud enough and we'll end up with a sequel to Transcendence.

I'm still trying to track down a source for "bay bees".

Maybe a Galveston thing?

Xelebes said:

Fruit, how it originated was to address the wrong of the 60s Scoop and consequent fears of the destruction of native communities, which was an intentional move by government to remove children from native families and inserted them into white families. Similar motives behind the Indian Residential Schools were behind the program and right now there is a battle to have the children who were part of that Scoop be recognised.

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We have federal law that is specific to Native Americans for that in the US, as many laws are due to the sovereign status of many NA nations here. I'm sure you heard all about Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl (2013), which didn't seem to quite understand that law (intentionally, naturally), imho.

I think the clinic is wrong. And I agree with our Indian Child Welfare Act, too. It's the sovereignty that keeps the Native situation different legally, imho.

I do understand the respecting of culture along with race in general, too, though, so I could see leaning towards that in policy, absolutely. I just wouldn't go as far as making it illegal unless there are citizenship issues along with the race issues (like with duel citizens of Indian nations in the US, and presumably Canada [?]).

“I’m not sure that we should be creating rainbow families just because some single woman decides that that’s what she wants,” he said.

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Someone OBVIOUSLY lacked some Power Rangers in his cartoons. Ranbow groups are awesome.

Kaiser-Kun said:

Someone OBVIOUSLY lacked some Power Rangers in his cartoons. Ranbow groups are awesome.

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I know, right? I mean, who didn't love watching both Kim and Trini kick ass, or Kim and Aisha? And Adam was a damn awesome character.

backslashbaby said:

We have federal law that is specific to Native Americans for that in the US, as many laws are due to the sovereign status of many NA nations here. I'm sure you heard all about Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl (2013), which didn't seem to quite understand that law (intentionally, naturally), imho.

I think the clinic is wrong. And I agree with our Indian Child Welfare Act, too. It's the sovereignty that keeps the Native situation different legally, imho.

I do understand the respecting of culture along with race in general, too, though, so I could see leaning towards that in policy, absolutely. I just wouldn't go as far as making it illegal unless there are citizenship issues along with the race issues (like with duel citizens of Indian nations in the US, and presumably Canada [?]).

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See, I can only see it in regards to the Native populace of Canada and the US because they're nations of their own and the history.

But in general race and culture are not the same. For example, Greeks and Italians are white, but even older Greek and Italian families retain more of their roots than those who came over 300 years ago from England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany etc. And African American culture isn't the same as the different African cultures.

Lillith1991 said:

See, I can only see it in regards to the Native populace of Canada and the US because they're nations of their own and the history.

But in general race and culture are not the same. For example, Greeks and Italians are white, but even older Greek and Italian families retain more of their roots than those who came over 300 years ago from England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany etc. And African American culture isn't the same as the different African cultures.

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I agree, really. I never know how to approach the 'culture' issue on behalf of other people just because I know their skin color. Skin color does not equal culture, so I don't want to assume that they feel that Black children should be adopted mainly by Black families, etc, as an example. OTOH, I do want to respect that for those who feel that their culture being broken down is a problem.

It comes down to the individuals as my compromise in thought. If the situation gets out of hand like it did with Indians, then that tips the balance to something society has to get stricter on, imho. With the sovereignty issue, the Native situations were better covered by a different theory, so that helps in those cases, I think.

William Haskins said:

could it be i am one of your socks as well, and i have gained (semi) sentience?

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enough of that. back in your drawer and give me five stanzas.

Medievalist said:

hang on there whitey, diana hignutt and haggis are my socks.

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Yeah, but it's my troll, right, because I found it first. Can I keep it? I can keep it right? I'll clean up after it and everything, I promise. I'll take really take good care of it.

Can I?

ETA: All of the other kids have one.

Ditto the above on the culture thing.

I've heard tons of references to 'black culture,' but I suspect a black person raised in a Detroit housing project will have an entirely different cultural experience, background, touchstones, etc., than a black person raised in rural Louisiana or one raised in a multimillion-dollar home in San Francisco. It's not just geography or ses either; background, religion, etc., all go into what I perceive as culture.

To assume someone with your skin tone shares your culture is ridiculous. I don't have the same culture as someone with my skin tone who was born and raised in entirely different circumstances.

Honey Boo Boo and Chelsea Clinton are both really white, with round, midwestern-y facial features. I'd wager Chelsea's more culturally attuned to the Obama kids (and not because both their parents were president) than Honey Boo Boo. Yes, I also know Chelsea is an adult.

Haggis said:

My understanding is that this same approach is used with adoptions. In other words, adoption agencies strive to match ethnicities and some insist on it. Perhaps we have a social worker or three on board who might be able to clarify.

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I think this is the case with some agencies, but is absolutely not universal. When I was but a wee flake, some people in my family were poised to adopt (not a private adoption), let us say, someone more Wheatie-coloured. Made no nevermind to the adoption folks - an available kid was an available kid. I know someone now who is a visibly distinct race from her parents, who adopted her when she was born. Same deal.

Well, cornflake, it's about adequately fooling observers that the child "belongs" with you, so looking alike is all that's necessary.

SomethingOrOther said:

Entirely unsurprising.

That is why I advocate responding to posts like the once-again departed's in a low-effort counter-trolly manner. Save your energy, give them a dose of their own pseudomedicine, and so on.



Welcome back to AW, I think. I hadn't seen you post in like ages.

Seems like the season for revisits. Hope we can get ELITE poster HO.NEY.BAD.GER to come back too.

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Thank you for the welcome back! I was gone, but I'm back again for a long while, I hope. Just a little acute carpal-tunnel self-ban that went on for much longer than I expected it to! I have to be a good girl and take it easy on that wrist, and AW makes that so hard with its addictive goodness But I'll be good. I have to!

Hapax Legomenon said:

Well, cornflake, it's about adequately fooling observers that the child "belongs" with you, so looking alike is all that's necessary.

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Semi-derail, but --

Best mixed family story I ever heard was the woman at the grocery store with her two kids - one adopted from Russia, one from Haiti. The guy at checkout looked at the kids, and then the mom, who was white but didn't really have the Russian child's features anymore than she did the Haitian's, and asked if they were her "real" kids. This was the point she smiled and told him they were adopted. He kind of smiled back, nodded his head, and said he figured she was too old to have a couple of kids so young.

Okay, it was still an awful thing to say, and you shouldn't go around asking if anyone is a "real" anything in the context of family, but still -- how many times do you get that assumption based on something other than perceived racial context?

Hapax Legomenon said:

Well, cornflake, it's about adequately fooling observers that the child "belongs" with you, so looking alike is all that's necessary.

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Doesn't work. Walk around with a kid with the same skin colour, similar features, and different hair colour, and you'll get asked if the kid is 'yours,' where the kid came from, etc. People are nuts, odd and rude.

cornflake said:

Doesn't work. Walk around with a kid with the same skin colour, similar features, and different hair colour, and you'll get asked if the kid is 'yours,' where the kid came from, etc. People are nuts, odd and rude.

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Exactly. My older cousin looks more like my mother than her own mother, and she is always mistaken for my mother's daughter. And I've had people assume my niece is mine even though she clearly has her mother's features instead of mine.

You guys just reminded me of something bizarre that happened. When I lived in Japan, a friend (Japanese) came to visit with her husband (white) and their two children. We were all traveling around together, and I was standing around chatting one day with someone who had seen us and wanted to talk (many people in Japan like to practice their English on foreigners).

Now, we were just chatting for a few minutes, and the guy made a comment about the kids being mine. I explained that I was just a friend, and it turns out he had thought that my friend's husband and I were married, and that my friend was our translator while we were traveling.

I never could figure out why he would assume that the kids were mine. I mean, they were obviously half-Asian, and one looks straight-up Japanese herself. But somehow in his mind, it made more sense that the kids "belonged to" the two white people, and the Asian person with us was just working for us. It was kind of weird. Come to think of it, my current SO and I have had people make a similar assumption when we're all out together. I have no way of explaining this.

cornflake said:

Doesn't work. Walk around with a kid with the same skin colour, similar features, and different hair colour, and you'll get asked if the kid is 'yours,' where the kid came from, etc. People are nuts, odd and rude.

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I have five kids. People often ask me, "Are they ALL yours?" Some extra bold ones will ask me, "Do they all have the same father?"

Ugh. And we appear to be lily white. (They're actually a good percentage Native American -- hubbs and kids) If they had any Native features, I'm sure I'd get even more side eye, since I'm red-headed and white as Wonder Bread.

Medievalist said:

hang on there whitey, diana hignutt and haggis are my socks.

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I wonder if the sockpuppet is still reading, and horrified that that racial slur is still being used in this thread.

Indeed, it seems to be spreading...

Cranky said:

I have five kids. People often ask me, "Are they ALL yours?" Some extra bold ones will ask me, "Do they all have the same father?"

Ugh. And we appear to be lily white. (They're actually a good percentage Native American -- hubbs and kids) If they had any Native features, I'm sure I'd get even more side eye, since I'm red-headed and white as Wonder Bread.

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Until I got to the point that I was old, miserable, and a committed curmudgeon, I probably would have let that go. But, you know, people aren't curious. They're nosy. There's a difference. Today I would ask them, "Why would you like to know that? Is there some reason that's important to you?" Some wouldn't care, but it might giver others pause.

Haggis said:

Until I got to the point that I was old, miserable, and a committed curmudgeon, I probably would have let that go. But, you know, people aren't curious. They're nosy. There's a difference. Today I would ask them, "Why would you like to know that? Is there some reason that's important to you?" Some wouldn't care, but it might giver others pause.

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I'm a chicken. I just say, "Yes." And give them the side eye myself.

Haggis said:

Until I got to the point that I was old, miserable, and a committed curmudgeon, I probably would have let that go. But, you know, people aren't curious. They're nosy. There's a difference. Today I would ask them, "Why would you like to know that? Is there some reason that's important to you?" Some wouldn't care, but it might giver others pause.

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How old are you anyway? Where did you grow up? Have you got any kids? If so, how do you get along with them?

Any of them adopted? I understand that you like Chihuahuas, but how do they really feel about you?

kaitie's post reminded me of my situation.

I'm as white as the driven snow, and my wife is Japanese. Our two sons are decidedly Western looking with only slightly slanted eyes yet with very Western features (a high bridged nose, high cheekbones and a different bone structure than most kids their age) and NO one ever asks my wife if her husband is Japanese.

Assumptions should never be made no matter what. My friend is American (white) and he is also married to a Japanese woman. One of his daughters looks identical to her mother. The other looks totally Western. She even has green eyes like her father, a rarity. People always ask him if he remarried somewhere along the way when they see his older, Western looking daughter. When he says no, they're stumped.

Wilde_at_heart said:

I don't know if this is the case here, and media isn't always terribly reliable about these things, nor are people's stated motives, however ... the one thing I find potentially bothersome is if this is a white person with all-white family and friends and 'I wanna cute exotic baybee!!!'.

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According to the Calgary Herald article:
"The Alberta Human Rights Commission upheld the policy after a white couple brought a complaint against the clinic about five years ago, Greene said. They were not infertile but had hoped to use non-Caucasian sperm. “Our psychologist evaluated them and really didn’t see why a couple that is not infertile should be choosing sperm donors they have no cultural relationship with.” "

It sounds as though the Commission's psychologist had similar doubts. I don't even know that it's about colour or culture, but about unreasonable parental expectations. It's like wanting a sperm-donor who's a musician, or an athlete, or a doctor. You're hoping for those traits or tendencies in your child. I can see some people taking it badly if their child doesn't live up to expectations.
Why would you specifically want a child who doesn't look like you or the other adoptive parent? Or, even weirder, of a different culture? It's not like culture is inherited. I think that's the kind of question that should be asked of prospective parents.