How Successful Are R & R's?

It all depends. It's possible that you still aren't quite up to what she's looking for and she passes, or she could ask you to do another. She could think it needs more work but sign you anyway (my agent did). She might love the revisions and sign you immediately.

Basically, it means you're close, but it's still not a guarantee. Do your best and hope for the best, and know that you've done well to get this far, and then try to find a way to occupy yourself so you aren't checking your email every five minutes for the next month.

ETA: For what it's worth, I was sure my agent was going to reject me. Absolutely positive. I'd been so confident at first, and then I didn't hear back immediately and was so convinced that it was a "no" that I wasn't even upset when I opened the email. I had to read it twice when I saw "I'd like to set up a time to call" because I honestly couldn't believe it said that.

Well, I'd also say make it what you think it should be. That might sound odd, but make sure you agree with the changes and that you feel like it's a better book for them. If you have nagging doubts or aren't sure about something, it might mean that it needs more work or that it's not in line with what you had in mind when you started the book.

My agent actually suggested several things when he had me do an R&R, and while I agreed with two or three, one of the big ones I really disagreed with. I went ahead and made the other changes and wrote back, saying, "I know that you also had hoped I would do this, but I can't because a, b, c."

I was pretty sure that it was a guarantee he would say no, but it would have changed one of the main elements of the story and the meaning of the insight the character gains at the end of the book would have been lost. He wrote me back and said that he preferred an author who was willing to thoughtfully discuss the matter and who wouldn't change things they didn't believe in just because he didn't like them to someone who did everything he said without question.

It's easy to say "I want this agent so bad" and just make the changes, but any changes we make should be because we recognize the value it would bring to the novel, and when we're finished with them we should feel that they have made a positive difference. And then in the end, even if she does say no, you have a better manuscript to send out to the next batch.

I signed with my agent after doing an R&R. She pointed out some problems and left it up to me to determine how to fix them. She said she was very close to offering rep, but wanted to see how I'd handle revisions. I spent a few months mulling it over and getting some distance from the MS before revising. When I resubmitted, she said the revisions were perfect and offered rep.

I'm sure it varies from agent to agent and MS to MS, but an R&R means you're pretty damn close. Just make sure you truly understand the problems and are fixing them, not just rushing and correcting surface rather than structural flaws.

Good luck!

I had an R&R with an agent that lasted quite a few months. Here's what I learned from the experience that I would tell anyone in the same position:

1) Take your time. The agent wants to see a re-envisioning, not a quick rush job of checking off all the items on the fix-it list. They should never fault you for taking the time to make it right. I took about six months on my revision.

2) Make sure you agree with the changes, as kaitie so eloquently said. Don't do it just to please the agent. Make the changes because you honestly believe they'll make a better book. Mine certainly did.

3) An R&R, while obviously an awesome step, does not always equal representation. Mine didn't. The agent had no problems with the book itself (she said I rocked the revision) but she just wasn't confident that she could sell the book after all. She didn't want to take on any clients for whom she wasn't absolutely certain she could do her job -- i.e., sell their books. Can you blame her? Not really. Actually, it's been a blessing in disguise. I'm querying a new novel and my name popping up in her query inbox, when she's at a new agency with new opportunities and more room to grow... well, that could turn out well for me.

So even if the agent doesn't end up offering you rep, you're still building a contact in the industry, one that could prove to be very valuable in the future.

Undercover said:

This is my first time doing an R & R for an agent.

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Rest and Relaxation???

I've been here a while, even read this subforum every once in a while, but didn't recognize this term. It's not in our super-duper AW dictionary that has everything else:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1898706&postcount=43

Revise and rewrite? I figured that out from context. Wait, I reread the OP and I found it (bold mine):

...
Anyway, she urged me to revise and resubmit to her.

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Okay ... back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Hm. Awesome question.

I had one previous R&R that didn't work out. For another book I had an R&R that failed as well. But that R&R helped shape the book. When I queried widely, it got me my current agent.

So, the moral is that even if R&R doesn't get you an offer of rep, it possibly helps fix the book so that another agent REALLY likes it.

They work much, much better when coming from an editor. With an agent, trust your instincts and make no change you believe would harm the story.

Undercover said:

Oh, man, I'm sorry it didn't work out for you Becca. Sounds like you're taking it well though, so that's good. I'm just wondering why would an agent do that to someone if they knew they wouldn't be able to sell it? Wouldn't the agent have thought of that in the beginning?

Ex Machina, why didn't yours work out?

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It's hard to say why an R&R doesn't work out. The agent tells you specifics but a lot of times they don't tell you what they really want to see happen to the mani. As a test, of sorts.

Both times, my R&R failed because the agent just wanted to see 'more', or didn't connect with voice, or didn't think it was at the place it needed to be.

But after R&Ring and getting rejected my second time, the R&R'd manuscript went on to have a 28% request rate and five offers of rep. I'm like the poster girl for R&R's now, can't stop encouraging people to do them.

Don't ever give up if you get an R&R rejection. I know it hurts, but you really, REALLY can turn it into something even better. I promise.

I also have this question. I got an R&R from an agent, who told me my book wasn't quite there yet, but she really saw potential. We had a phone conversation, she sent me a client's book and told me if I ever wanted to stop by the agency itself and talk, I could. I know it is not a definite offer but I feel like with that enthusiasm and nudging, it's at least a positive start...

I know R&Rs are 50/50 but has anyone ever gotten a reason on why the agent didn't take your ms(to rep)? EX: "not what they had in mind", etc? Just curious

I just dug up the final rejection email on my R&R and the agent said this as to why she was finally passing: "There are so many things to love about this story but I can only think of a few editors who could really, really dig it, and that's a failure of imagination on my part, and not what you want in a representative. I think you are a really, really strong writer with a great head for story and character, but I'm just afraid that I don't see the big commercial potential."

Thank you so much, Becca! (What an encouraging rejection) Here's to hoping you get agented with ABT!

Thank you! I hope so, too.

I've never received an R&R but I always think it's to be taken as a great thing. Even if an agent doesn't ultimately end up offering representation, getting editorial comments from professionals is pretty amazing. Obviously, as you know and others have said, you shouldn't make any changes that you don't agree with and feel make your manuscript stronger, but I'm sure you can feel your manuscript getting stronger with the changes you do choose to make, which would definitely go a long way in the future. Plus, as Becca said, it can be great for querying this agent in the future. Agents do not do these often so it's extremely likely you'll be remembered!

R&Rs are a wonderful opportunity, but I'm going echo what others have said about only doing the revision if it is truly a direction that you see benefitting the MS. To do a revision is to truly "re-vision" the MS. When I was querying, I had an R&R from an agent many writers would be falling over to get. And while I spent the time doing the revisions, I wound up being so unhappy with the revisions she wanted that I pulled the MS from consideration. The changes that were requested were so against the grain of what I loved about the MS. I ended up rewriting the book back to the original story and kept none of that R&R before I gave it to my current agent (who I signed with on a different MS) for consideration.

That said, a very good writer friend recently worked with an agent for over a year on multiple R&Rs for one MS. And while the last one still wasn't quite where it needed to be, the agent signed her. She's very happy even though it took a long time to get that offer because she knows that the agent truly gets her book and matches her own meticulousness in writing.

It is very rare to get an R&R, and it is also a situation that I have found is perfectly okay to request a phone call if you want to talk more in depth with the requesting agent. My friend that did the R&R with the ending offer had requested several phone calls over the course of revising the MS, and the agent was happy to oblige because ultimately the agent wants the revision to be as successful as you do.

I had an R&R for a publisher that worked out--I got the deal and an agent from the revised MS.

I had a list of suggested changes, but it was far from the only thing I did. I took a long, hard look at the MS, and one of my beta readers (the lovely Anne Lyle, who posts on AW), gave me another suggestion that REALLY helped shape the MS.

I did everything my editor asked, but I also went above and beyond--changing stuff that I realised wasn't working for me. One character was just not that sympathetic, for instance, so I rewrote all of the scenes with her in it. Some of the suggestions were also rather open-ended. For instance--"more magic." I had a lot of fun with that one.

But as others have said, even if the R&R doesn't work out, if you agree with the changes then you'll most likely have a stronger book at the end of it that might find a home somewhere else.

I got my agent through an R&R - it was my first one, and I remember fighting between wanting to make all the recommended changes automatically, and wanting to specifically resist some so she'd think 'Wow, what a strong and artistic character! I must have him.'

Obviously, both extremes are silly, and all it took was some time to cool myself before I worked out which changes would be good and which I'd just gloss over. I actually sent the changed ms, with the agent's notes, to a few friends, asking them if they thought the changes had been made or if the same problems could be said to exist. That was helpful.

I had an R & R this year. The agent specifically felt I got into the story too quickly and asked me to add a chapter or two at the beginning. I created a new chapter one that went seamlessly into the rest (minor changes were needed beyond but nothing big). She rejected because she was failing at selling a book with a similar theme but felt my addition improved the story. I agree that it did.

Make sure you save the original so you can remove any changes that don't fly for you.