The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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astonwest

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lucyishome said:
Thats kind of like Al Gore invented the internet.

I thought up the idea of "automated" postage centers, where one could avoid standing in Post Office lines just to get a letter weighed and stamped...too bad I didn't patent that one...sigh.

In reference to the PA thread linked:

If you self-publish, you are just being robbed. I had two or three wanting me to pay them THOUSANDS of dollars to print my work! Not in this lifetime!!!! PA is good. I'm happy.

Methinks someone is confusing self-publishing with vanity publishing...
 
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James D. Macdonald

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ResearchGuy said:

You talk about the "contempt" with which the subsidy books are viewed by reviewers, libraries, and bookstores.

The ultimate root of that is the contempt that the readers show for those books. Readers drive this industry. If readers suddenly developed a taste for unedited slush the bookstores would be filled with it by next week.
 

robeiae

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Sassenach said:
Stores...selling coffee...a whole bunch of them. Wait!! I thought of that a while back, but I forgot to tell anyone.

Actually, thinking something up is the easy part; I know people who actually thought of these kinds of things before they happened. It's the actual doing that's hard, i.e coming up with a workable business model and plan, getting financing, etc.

Imagine, if you will, two erstwhile seekers of fame and fortune:
We should create a publishing company that will allow anyone to get published without charging them an upfront fee.
What a great idea, but is it workable.
Only if we can devise a way to suck the money out of the authors after we publish their book.
Hmmm...
Hmmm...

And the rest, as they say, is history!

Rob
 

Galoot

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Bashing

"I don't like Wal-Mart" and "I don't like Wal-Mart staff or patrons" are not equivalent statements.

"I don't like PA" and "I don't like PA authors" are also not equivalent.
 

PVish

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Self-publisher bashing?

According to one of the posters on the PA board, "If you self-publish, you are just being robbed."

Uh, not necessarily.

I made a four-figure profit by self-pubbing my novel. However, I knew my market and I researched options. I had a lot of input with the printer I finally chose. Plus this novel had won a regional contest, and part of my self-pubbing cost was underwritten by the grant I received.

My novel was workshopped through my writers group, some of whom taught college English. Heck, I'm a college English teacher myself. I did have six errors in the first press run (1,000, which sold out) but I fixed the five I could find when I ran the second thousand). Even after doing a second press run, my profit is still in the four-figure range.

My self-pubbed book has not only made money, but has been studied by regional bookclubs, been shelved at several independent bookstores, received favorable reviews in regional (and one national) publication and sold well over a thousand copies. Oh yeah, two Barnes & Noble stores have contacted me to order copies.

I'd say my self-published book did a heckuva lot better than the average PA book. Better, even, than most of the above-average PA books!

Sheesh! When are some of the PAers going to stop bashing us self-published authors?

PVish
 

Patricia

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A little clarifying, again.

OK, gang, I’ll try to shed some light on the “ignorance” of the PA writers. From my own experience, this is what I can tell you. While I was still an active PAer, I actually had a duel personality. One was on the PA fence rooting PA on, hoping against hope that what my heart was saying was not true, because I did not want to admit, I had been the victim of fraud, or my book doomed to failure because of my poor choice. The other side of me was over here lurking and cheering AW on because I knew that it was the right thing to do. Being a person that prides herself in doing the right thing I eventually, even though it hurt to admit I had been duped, decided to join the team over here.

I am, by nature, a strong and confident individual; but because of my experience with PA and the temporary “death” of my hard work, and the love of my craft kicked in the butt so to speak, I have days that are pure heck. Some days are spent in depression, and it seems that my muse has died. Other days I am my old confident and strong self, on the AW board, offering opinions and encouraging others. This is part of the “grieving” process of a dream that is near death, but reviving. I know it is just a matter of time and the whole ordeal will be at an end. But in the interim the going gets rough at times and I know without a doubt that many of those authors who are so vigorously cheering on the PA boards are going through the duel personality war.

I know it is hard for some of you to realize why and how we were duped so easily. I have no answer for that, except for all the answers that have been given already and I won’t bother repeating. Don’t forget for one moment that most of those caught in the fraud, are or have potential to be good authors; they are no less good writers than those published by traditional publishers. For some, the chance for the published dream has been stolen. The more you think of the whole thing, the more hurtful it becomes and the more evil.

 
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Uncarved

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As someone who is seriously considering Lulu for a niche project she is writing in between traditional book contracts (one book due October, next is January; I have a little time I can persue other things) I am glad that we are starting to distinguish between self pubbing for their own good and a vanity press like PA.



PVish said:
According to one of the posters on the PA board, "If you self-publish, you are just being robbed."

Uh, not necessarily.

I made a four-figure profit by self-pubbing my novel. However, I knew my market and I researched options. I had a lot of input with the printer I finally chose. Plus this novel had won a regional contest, and part of my self-pubbing cost was underwritten by the grant I received.

My novel was workshopped through my writers group, some of whom taught college English. Heck, I'm a college English teacher myself. I did have six errors in the first press run (1,000, which sold out) but I fixed the five I could find when I ran the second thousand). Even after doing a second press run, my profit is still in the four-figure range.

My self-pubbed book has not only made money, but has been studied by regional bookclubs, been shelved at several independent bookstores, received favorable reviews in regional (and one national) publication and sold well over a thousand copies. Oh yeah, two Barnes & Noble stores have contacted me to order copies.

I'd say my self-published book did a heckuva lot better than the average PA book. Better, even, than most of the above-average PA books!

Sheesh! When are some of the PAers going to stop bashing us self-published authors?

PVish
 

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underthecity said:
A bookstore that carries books by just one publisher won't be effectively serving the customer. With all due respect, this store will be carrying "generic" brand books. Instead of Stephen King books, it'll carry horror novels that are trying so hard to be Stephen King, but aren't. No Harlequin romances, just generic equivalents. No Michael Crichton technothrillers, just books by authors who wish they could be Crichton, but aren't. These books will look similar, but they won't "taste" the same, nor will they have the same quality.

It's a concept doomed to failure.

underthecity

I'd say it is a little worse. A generic foods company - even if it isn't the same as the name brand company putting its food in a different box - has a few things I can expect of them. They have to guarantee that the food is edible. They have to include all the ingredients that you need to make the product. They need to inspect the food to be sure it meets a fairly good standard and remove anything rotten.

I can't say that PublishAnyone does the same for their products.
 

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PVish said:
According to one of the posters on the PA board, "If you self-publish, you are just being robbed."

Uh, not necessarily. ...

Please note the Big Differences between self-pubbing and vanity-pubbing.


With vanity-pubbing money is flowing away from the author.

With self-pubbing money is flowing to the author. (True, it's flowing from another pocket in the same pair of pants, but it's still flowing the right direction. Self-pubbing is like normal commercial publishing except that the publisher and the author are the same guy.)

(One common pitfall in self-publication is forgetting to pay yourself as the author.)
 

Ken Schneider

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Question for those who know.


If one is self published, how is the book price set?
Is the price still 19.95?
I understand if you buy the books you set the price, but setting the price depends on what you have invested?
 

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Another thing to be remembered is that there are valid uses for self-published and vanity books. We're not against those when used properly. We're only against those being sold as options to writers when those are incorrect for the writers' purposes.

Even PA can be of use, but it's not the right solution for many of its authors. Plus, its contract needs considerable modification so that it will be fair to writers as well as PA.

So, PA authors, keep it in mind that you can't see deception if you're using tunnel vision. Look around you and discover other facts.
 

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Sorry to all, I forgot to post this.

As most know, last week I made an apology to Jenna on the P.A. board.

I also told my friends there that I still cared for them and no matter what.

I received some e-mails that are less than flattering. I thought they were my friends.
The e-mails have contained animated online jokes about burying the mule who keep climbing to the top of the hole, (P.A.) and the farmer who is trying to burying them getting kicked in a** by the mule(me). Some friends.
I've received it from several people, yes the same joke. I wish I could find one that had the mule kissing my a** to send back.
 

astonwest

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changling said:
I understand if you buy the books you set the price, but setting the price depends on what you have invested?

Besides printing costs (your investment), it also depends on the discount that the bookstores require, and whatever profit and/or royalty you're looking to make.

It would probably be a good idea to also figure on a certain percentage of returns and/or unsold books.

And of course, as anyone who has gone through PA's gauntlet can attest, you have to set the price at a level that is competitive...
 

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changling said:
Sorry to all, I forgot to post this.

As most know, last week I made an apology to Jenna on the P.A. board.

I also told my friends there that I still cared for them and no matter what.

I received some e-mails that are less than flattering. I thought they were my friends.
The e-mails have contained animated online jokes about burying the mule who keep climbing to the top of the hole, (P.A.) and the farmer who is trying to burying them getting kicked in a** by the mule(me). Some friends.
I've received it from several people, yes the same joke. I wish I could find one that had the mule kissing my a** to send back.
Bottom line, they ain't your friends and they're acting like jackasses. If I come across an apt ***-kissing mule, I'll be sure and send it to you for the appropriate forwarding.:roll: Onward and upward.
 

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I have self published two books, one with a friend with runs a POD shop in England. It is nifty seeing my name on a book I can hold. One of these days I'll see a book of mine on the Barnes and Noble bookshelf.
 

James D. Macdonald

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changling said:
If one is self published, how is the book price set?
Is the price still 19.95?


That's really off-topic for this discussion. We have two entire areas for self-publishing here at AW.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=46

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=47


Short answer: Depends on how much it costs you to print the book, what it'll cost to distribute it, and what it'll cost to advertise it. The more copies you print the lower the price per book. And don't forget to figure in the royalties on the cover price that you'll be paying yourself. You'll know what the cover price of the book will be after you work out all those details. Assume 50% returns. Remember to include shipping. Remember to figure on review copies.

Get quotes. Negotiate. You are the publisher.
 

KellyS.

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And which board would they be speaking of in post #10?
 

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KellyS. said:
And which board would they be speaking of in post #10?

Same one as in post #1, I'd guess.

(If I were to guess, I'd think it was in Writersweekly.com (owned by Angela Hoy, who runs Booklocker.com), but they've shut down their Whispers and Warning boards, so there aren't any new PA discussions there. If anyone does know....)
 

Sassenach

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Earlier today I was thinking how the PA'ers need a 'Library' like the one in Richard Brautigan's 'The Library'. [Some of the baby boomers here might remember that book.]
 

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POD prices beat PA prices

Changling asked, "If one is self published, how is the book price set?"

Short answer: Cheaper than the average PA price.

As Uncle Jim pointed out, the more books you order, the cheaper the book. Don't consider hiring a printer for under a thousand books. For a smaller run, the price per copy will be prohibitive. (My second thousand, by the way, cost a third of the first press run's cost.) In general, the rule of thumb is twice the printer's price per copy plus 20%. However, you can drop the price a bit. After all, you're the publisher. You can also give discounts for volume purchases. (I have different discounts for big bookstores, small bookstores, out-right purchases, and consignments. However, I make money with each one I sell.)

Unlike PA authors, a self-pubbed author has a lot of input. Visit several printers and get quotes. Look at the printer's work. Good ones will have dozens of samples for you to examine. Decide before you get your quotes how you want your book to look, what size font, what type font, what weight paper, if you want a two-color cover or full cover, etc.

Some generalizations:
If you expect to sell at least a thousand books, go with self-publishing.
If you expect to sell a couple of hundred--but less than a thousand books, go with a reputable POD.
If you just want to hold two copies and proclaim, "Look! I'm a published author!" then you know where you can go.

PVish
 

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If you just want to hold two copies and proclaim, "Look! I'm a published author!" then you know where you can go.

Kinko's?
 

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changling said:
Sorry to all, I forgot to post this.

As most know, last week I made an apology to Jenna on the P.A. board.

I also told my friends there that I still cared for them and no matter what.

I received some e-mails that are less than flattering. I thought they were my friends.
The e-mails have contained animated online jokes about burying the mule who keep climbing to the top of the hole, (P.A.) and the farmer who is trying to burying them getting kicked in a** by the mule(me). Some friends.
I've received it from several people, yes the same joke. I wish I could find one that had the mule kissing my a** to send back.

I misread that at first, but you might like the way I misread it a bit better. I thought that you meant that PA was the hole, that "me" refered to the mule, and presumably the farmer was part of the same plan as the hole. That seems like a much more apt way of viewing your situation. PublishAnyone is definitely a trap that some authors have fallen into and need to climb out of.

The reverse (which I presume was the way they meant the joke to go) doesn't really make much sense. PublishAmerica isn't going to climb to the top of anything compared to any major publisher, or even most small presses.
 

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HI Changling,

Don't feel too bad. Many of those folks will likely find themselves coming over here in time. PA is kinda like that story in Plato's Republic of the people locked inside a cave who spend all day watching shadows of animals projected onto the wall. They begin to believe those shadows are the real thing.

When the folks are finally torn out of the cave and into the open daylight, their eyes cannot take the intensity of the sunlight and the real world at first. But slowly they adjust and come to see nature for what it really is, and not just projected shadows.

Now they want to share this information with their friends who are stuck back in the cave. Of course, their friends will initially resist the truth because it is hard on the eyes. Their friends will blame the individual for trying to hurt them.

This is why the PA boosters are at their most vicious just before they cross over to our side. It is hard to come to see the truth, namely, that they are not traditionally published authors and that they deserve better from their publisher.


changling said:
Sorry to all, I forgot to post this.

As most know, last week I made an apology to Jenna on the P.A. board.

I also told my friends there that I still cared for them and no matter what.

I received some e-mails that are less than flattering. I thought they were my friends.
The e-mails have contained animated online jokes about burying the mule who keep climbing to the top of the hole, (P.A.) and the farmer who is trying to burying them getting kicked in a** by the mule(me). Some friends.
I've received it from several people, yes the same joke. I wish I could find one that had the mule kissing my a** to send back.
 

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changling said:
I received some e-mails that are less than flattering. I thought they were my friends.
Yup, it's the typical mentality over there. Many actually are capable of independent thought, and those are the bane of The Logo's existence. The rest of the cattle check to see which way the wind is blowing and act accordingly.

How many of us had friends over there only to have our butts chewed by those same "friends." It's sick and pathetic. Only in times of hardship do you know who your real friends are. So sorry you got caught in their crosshairs.
 
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