The "What NOT to do" thread (or: subplots/tropes that are cliche)

dancing-drama · Jan 21, 2015

I can see your point. Of course it was all part of Elisa's development and a logical outcome of the long walk she had to go through, but I kept wondering if that was something that absolutely totally needed to happen. Throughout the entire novel, I kept thinking that the story could be just as good and people could still have identified with Elisa through her insecurities etc even if she hadn't lost weight.
I wondered if the book couldn't have existed just as perfectly fine without the weight loss.
And I think it could have. Elisa could have overcome other obstacles and the love interests could have reacted to other parts of her, not her weight.
I think that in a time when fat-shaming, concern trolling and the dehumanization of people above a size 14 is so present in our everyday lives, content creators with teen girls as their key demographic should be especially mindful to creating stories that are just as good without the fat protagonist getting a makeover.

Sage · Jan 21, 2015

And I think you're absolutely right, but I think that there are those of us that understand that we do have an unhealthy relationship with food, and it's nice to have that addressed in a book. And I'm not saying that she had an unhealthy relationship with food because Elisa was overweight, I'm saying that because she did have an unhealthy relationship with food. She ate some sweet things because they were what she wanted, but she also sometimes ate because she was bored or because she had a headache or because she was upset or because it was right there and she already felt awful about her weight so what good was it to not eat it. And that is not healthy. And that is exactly how some people deal with food/weight, including me. What I loved about it was that it was realistic because she felt the way I feel. I didn't feel it was fat-shaming, just realistic, and the getting thinner wasn't easy, because it's not, and for some of us it takes a huge event to even try (in Elisa's case, getting kidnapped, though she wasn't actively trying to get thin).

The question becomes, I guess, did the trek through the desert become a way to get her thinner/fit, or was it an integral part of the story the author wanted to tell and there was no way the trek wouldn't have affected Elisa's weight, so she stayed true to that reality? Sure, there could have been a different story that was told about this character, but a huge part of this novel consisted of Elisa being kidnapped and what happened afterwards, so I don't think that *this* story would have been the same without the trek through the desert.

That doesn't mean that we don't need more books about people above a size 14 who stay above a size 14 (and I never once in the entire series pictured Elisa below size 16, fwiw)

ETA: I'm totally willing to separate the posts about this into a new thread, if anyone thinks it's worth it's own discussion

dancing-drama · Jan 21, 2015

Sage said:
The question becomes, I guess, did the trek through the desert become a way to get her thinner/fit, or was it an integral part of the story the author wanted to tell and there was no way the trek wouldn't have affected Elisa's weight, so she stayed true to that reality? Sure, there could have been a different story that was told about this character, but a huge part of this novel consisted of Elisa being kidnapped and what happened afterwards, so I don't think that *this* story would have been the same without the trek through the desert.

I think we might have to agree to disagree on that one - and there's nothing wrong with that.

No two people read the same book, and this was one that just didn't sit well with me.

Sage said:
That doesn't mean that we don't need more books about people above a size 14 who stay above a size 14

Yes, please! I need to incorporate this in my writing, too. The two projects I'm working on, however, have a small girl (who refuses to eat numerous times throughout the book) and a physically strong, fit girl (she's gone through some bada** training) as MCs. I hereby vow to write more about big girls.

Sage said:
ETA: I'm totally willing to separate the posts about this into a new thread, if anyone thinks it's worth it's own discussion

What do you mean exactly? I'd be up for discussing plussize characters. But I, personally, don't need a whole thread on Rae Carson's novel

http://www.absolutewrite.com//de.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

C.bronco · Jan 21, 2015

I am glad that no one said, "Big musical numbers that don't truly have a musical score," because I am so guilty of that.

Underdawg47 · Jan 21, 2015

I am tired of gay stories that feel they need to have stories that include some wretched soul dying of AIDS, go-go boys that dance a lot, nelly older men who are comic relief, or tired old drunken drag queens. I like to see more main characters as ordinary masculine guys who just happen to be gay. Indistinguishable on the outside except that instead of getting the girl of his dreams, he gets the man of his dreams.

Samsonet · Jan 21, 2015

This might be too specific, but can I have more mixed-race MCs who aren't half-and-half, but maybe like one third this and a quarter that and one-eighth another this and seven-twentyfourths something else? Not those numbers specifically, of course, but something along those lines. Just a personal wish.

Also more brown-eyed characters. I don't care if their eyes are described in purple prose. More brown eyes.

lenore_x · Jan 21, 2015

Samsonet said:
This might be too specific, but can I have more mixed-race MCs who aren't half-and-half, but maybe like one third this and a quarter that and one-eighth another this and seven-twentyfourths something else? Not those numbers specifically, of course, but something along those lines. Just a personal wish.

Also more brown-eyed characters. I don't care if their eyes are described in purple prose. More brown eyes.

One third... that would be an interesting backstory.

Most of my characters have brown eyes! Which I'm pleased with, but it does make my physical descriptions start to sound redundant, lol. Yeah, yeah, I'm the writer, I gotta get creative...

Ravioli · Jan 21, 2015

Sage said:
That doesn't mean that we don't need more books about people above a size 14 who stay above a size 14 (and I never once in the entire series pictured Elisa below size 16, fwiw)

My MC's wife is short, fat, and black. Three things under- or ill-represented in mainstream literature. I'm tired of the tall, blonde, white, thin model-type heroine. I'm also tired of the brown-haired, short-skirted, big-boobed office chick who is happy to get sexually exploited by her dark, white, tall, perfect-haired boss with the piercing blue eyes.

Obviously, I'm doing my homework on being black in Israel and in an Arab community so my pale face doesn't go around presuming to know what it's like. As for what it's like to be fat, well, I know from first-hand experience that you get lit on fire and dead cats are thrown at you. Among other things.

KTC · Jan 22, 2015

I don't find anything overdone, really. I decide on a case by case basis what I'm going to read. If the particular story interests me...I don't give a rat's crap if it has been overdone or not...story trumps all. Great writing trumps all. I don't care to put blinders on to avoid certain things I deem unworthy of my attention because it's been done before. I don't like tunnel vision.

The "What NOT to do" thread (or: subplots/tropes that are cliche)

dancing-drama

Priestly Up!

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

dancing-drama

Priestly Up!

C.bronco

I have plans...

Underdawg47

Samsonet

Just visiting

lenore_x

Ravioli

Crazy Cat Lady

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live