imprinting in love triangles

Windcutter

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Lol yeah. I know we discussed love triangles a hundred times over and we discussed this, too, but I just have to rant, I mean, say something, and also I would like to ask a question.

Did you ever notice how closely most YA books stick to the imprinting principle?

The first guy/girl MC meets at the beginning of the story will be the winner of the love battle at the end. I don't mean the first character they ever meet, of course, but the first love rival. If Alice meets Bob in chapter two and Sam in chapter five and then we have an Alice-Bob-Sam love triangle, Alice and Bob will be together at the end of the series.

I guessed a plot twist in a new book that way. MC meets a guy, sort of falls for him, then some events happen, she meets the second guy, sort of falls for him, too, then one of the guys is supposed to be a traitor and a villain. Even though everything pointed at the second guy being nice, I immediately guessed he was the bad seed.
Because he came second.

It is as if the reader is supposed to latch onto the first potential love interest and cheer for them from now on.

One of the few exceptions is the Childhood Friend trope. In which one of the love interests is MC's childhood friend.
You could argue, actually, that the exception only seems to be that way, because, being a childhood friend, the love interest has literally met MC first.

However, as a reverse trope, an existing romance is almost always bad. If in the first chapter MC already has a boyfriend or a girlfriend, this romance will most likely go belly up.

Same goes for the existing attraction. If MC starts the story already being in love with someone and the love triangle eventually develops, they will most likely end up with that person's rival.

However, if we see the beginning of attraction for both love interests, then the first LI will most likely win.

It's easy to dismiss it as another cliche, but I remember a screenwriting lecture where we were told about a similar effect and given a warning--do not present a character as if they belong to the main cast if you are going to throw the character away soon, and do not give a large hero entrance to a secondary character unless you are deconstructing on purpose. People get hooked on first impressions.

What do you think? Does imprinting work on you when you are reading a book?
 

Niiicola

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Like you, I always try and spot twists and tropes and things, but I suspect that I do tend to be biased toward the first LI as long as they're not a giant douchebag.

This was one thing that really made me angry about the Uglies series. [Warning, minor spoilers to follow.] There was the first love interest, David, who I really liked. Then he got shunted away for the second book and we met Zane, and I struggled to root for him because I'd basically imprinted on David already, but slowly, slowly he won me over and then [spoiler in white] HE DIED GAAAAAH and I was like, why did you just do that to me, Scott Westerfeld, now we're going back with David? I just got over him! Which I guess is kind of a teenagery thing to have happen, but it just never felt satisfying in the end. I loved those books but I felt terribly manipulated.
 
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lenore_x

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When I saw the thread of this title I thought you were referring to the specific kind of werewolf imprinting in Twilight, and I was like, OH GOD NO, THAT HAPPENS IN OTHER BOOKS? :tongue

Since I think of everything in trope language, what you're describing is First Girl Wins. I find it interesting that THG doesn't do it, though. (Or did she literally meet Peeta first? I can't remember how long she and Gale had been friends.)

Niiicola, I had the exact same reaction to the Uglies series. Gaaaahhh!
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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Seconding the First Guy Wins link--that's definitely a thing, and not just in YA. However, I also thought you were talking about something else, like people who are "fated" to be in love because of prophecies or magical objects or what-have-you. Whoever holds the Love MacGuffin gets the girl. Screw that noise. I'm sorry I'm being vague; had weird dreams and overslept, so I'm not entirely sure my brain's on right.

BUT yeah, the thing you're describing is what happens when (it's assumed that) the reader has imprinted on the first guy, and will be Very Put Out if they don't "win". I don't know how true that is really, but I think that's the expectation.
 

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But Gale falls under "childhood friend," so he doesn't count as first. Which is interesting because I've always considered some of my books to go against the FGW rule, but I think the childhood friend thing might void those (even if they were a hot, sexy paranormal LI childhood friend).

I actually do have some literal imprinting in my boyfriend bot book. The first girl the android sees (which happens normally under highly controlled situations) upon being switched on is who he falls in love with. He's also been programmed to like everything about her, but that initial meeting is an important part of the process.
 

Chazemataz

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What I would like to see is an ending to a love triangle where the MC chooses herself. "Pulling a Kelly", so to speak. That would be just awesome and a great message to send about personal responsibility and making the right choices in life.
 
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lenore_x

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But Gale falls under "childhood friend," so he doesn't count as first. Which is interesting because I've always considered some of my books to go against the FGW rule, but I think the childhood friend thing might void those (even if they were a hot, sexy paranormal LI childhood friend).

True... Unlucky Childhood Friend is also a trope! (Or it used to be. I just looked it up and they expanded it to include all childhood friend romances, unlucky or not. Huh??)
 

Niiicola

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But Gale falls under "childhood friend," so he doesn't count as first. Which is interesting because I've always considered some of my books to go against the FGW rule, but I think the childhood friend thing might void those (even if they were a hot, sexy paranormal LI childhood friend).

I definitely imprinted on Gale too. Apparently I'm easily manipulated.
 

ArachnePhobia

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It's easy to dismiss it as another cliche, but I remember a screenwriting lecture where we were told about a similar effect and given a warning--do not present a character as if they belong to the main cast if you are going to throw the character away soon, and do not give a large hero entrance to a secondary character unless you are deconstructing on purpose. People get hooked on first impressions.

What do you think? Does imprinting work on you when you are reading a book?

I think that screenwriting lecture is onto something. Most of the time I either root for whichever love interest makes the most sense or just plain don't care either way, but there have been cases where I've gotten sold on the first LI to the point if a second potential LI is introduced later, I won't even take them seriously. I was wondering what the difference was. I think that's it. When I didn't care or actively preferred the second LI, both LIs were on equal narrative footing. The few times I've gone into First LI Wins FOREVER mode, the First LI had such an established and functional place in the cast dynamics that later additions, even if they weren't bad characters, felt like they were throwing those dynamics out of whack.
 

veinglory

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I don't see this as an "as if". In romance the first attractive man on scene is the love interest most of the time so the reader knows that, no matter what the scene, this is the guy. I see this as a trope that is only loosely analogous to imprinting which is unconscious for object and subject. "the first guy is the guy" is conscious for both writer and reader, mostly.
 

Windcutter

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But Gale falls under "childhood friend," so he doesn't count as first. Which is interesting because I've always considered some of my books to go against the FGW rule, but I think the childhood friend thing might void those (even if they were a hot, sexy paranormal LI childhood friend).

I actually do have some literal imprinting in my boyfriend bot book. The first girl the android sees (which happens normally under highly controlled situations) upon being switched on is who he falls in love with. He's also been programmed to like everything about her, but that initial meeting is an important part of the process.
I wonder if the situation with Gale can be seen as a case of "existing attraction". Isn't Katniss into him a bit before the story starts? Then he was doomed as a love interest.

There is another situation with childhood friends which I think reflects an archetypal situation from adult lit. I bet it has its own trope name. :)

Traditional adult lit: hero has a bride in the Ordinary World. Once he is called to adventure, he meets a beautiful and mysterious woman who is possibly also dangerous. She falls for him, and he is feeling seduced by her. By the end he either returns home to be with his bride or dies in the Ordinary World to stay with his otherworldly love.
The legend of the country boy and the fairy queen is this. The pulp fiction's wholesome girls and femme fatales are this.

YA: MC has a wonderful childhood friend in the Ordinary World. Once she is called to adventure, she meets a beautiful and mysterious guy who is possibly also dangerous. She is being seduced by him but she never fully gives in to seduction, and by the end of the story she chooses the childhood friend and returns to the Ordinary World.
There is a certain fantasy trilogy which plays to the archetype/trope literally: MC not only defeats the beautiful villain who almost seduced her and chooses the childhood friend--she loses all her magic too. She is literally back where she started except her world is now a nicer place.
Like you, I always try and spot twists and tropes and things, but I suspect that I do tend to be biased toward the first LI as long as they're not a giant douchebag.
It works!
I remember a book (it wasn't even YA but anyway) I read last month, it opened with the investigator type MC meeting a woman unwittingly tangled up in the supernatural crime he was dealing with. They spent the first 80 or so pages running from the bad guys, fighting the bad guys and flirting a little.
Then wham--she died. And we barely heard two words about her ever since.
I was so disappointed. I was used to her by then. I already had her firmly established as the second main character and probably MC's love interest.
Since I think of everything in trope language, what you're describing is First Girl Wins. I find it interesting that THG doesn't do it, though. (Or did she literally meet Peeta first? I can't remember how long she and Gale had been friends.)
Ohh my favorite timekiller... I mean website. :)
Yes that's it exactly. I didn't know the proper trope name.

I always thought she was a bit into Gale when the story started (though it is never told outright so I can't prove it using a quote or something), so Gale was the Unlucky Childhood Friend.
Seconding the First Guy Wins link--that's definitely a thing, and not just in YA. However, I also thought you were talking about something else, like people who are "fated" to be in love because of prophecies or magical objects or what-have-you. Whoever holds the Love MacGuffin gets the girl. Screw that noise. I'm sorry I'm being vague; had weird dreams and overslept, so I'm not entirely sure my brain's on right.

BUT yeah, the thing you're describing is what happens when (it's assumed that) the reader has imprinted on the first guy, and will be Very Put Out if they don't "win". I don't know how true that is really, but I think that's the expectation.
I meant the reader imprinting, yeah. Love MacGuffins and I have a complicated relationship: they mostly piss me off but I'd also like to write about one.
What I would like to see is an ending to a love triangle where the MC chooses herself. "Pulling a Kelly", so to speak. That would be just awesome and a great message to send about personal responsibility and making the right choices in life.
I think there was a recent paranormal/urban fantasy YA series with that kind of ending, and if I remember correctly, the amount of annoyed readers was incredible.
 

Windcutter

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The few times I've gone into First LI Wins FOREVER mode, the First LI had such an established and functional place in the cast dynamics that later additions, even if they weren't bad characters, felt like they were throwing those dynamics out of whack.
I also think it has something to do with the whole cast dynamics.
Like the second LI should be introduced fast enough--otherwise the imprinting process will take hold. Doesn't have to be romantic. Just an entrance.

I just looked back at my own stories and realized that I did insert the future winner into the 'first appearance' position almost every time I planned a triangle.
In the current WIP they meet pretty much on the first page, spend the first two chapters together doing plot-related things, and then he disappears for nearly 100 pages while the second one comes onto the stage. But those two chapters contain so much wham--I don't think the readers will forget him.
I don't see this as an "as if". In romance the first attractive man on scene is the love interest most of the time so the reader knows that, no matter what the scene, this is the guy. I see this as a trope that is only loosely analogous to imprinting which is unconscious for object and subject. "the first guy is the guy" is conscious for both writer and reader, mostly.
I find it interesting just how universal this principle is. Happens in romances written twenty years ago, in fantasy novels written fifty years ago, in YA books written two years ago, in manga created half the world away...
 

Zoombie

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I find it interesting just how universal this principle is. Happens in romances written twenty years ago, in fantasy novels written fifty years ago, in YA books written two years ago, in manga created half the world away...

I first realized that this was a thing when I watched the creator commentary for the single greatest Paul Verhoeven movie ever: Starship Troopers.

(Note: If anyone here dares to impinge the movie Starship Trooper's honor, I hasten to point out that it was SUPPOSED to be the way it turned out because Verhoeven and his script writer...hated Starship Troopers and Heinlein's politics. That's why NPH shows up in a Gestapo uniform.)

Anywho!

During the film (for those who have't seen it), there is a bit of a love triangle. The main character loves a girl, while another girl loves the main character. And then girl A breaks up with the main character partway through the movie. As a young teen, I was pissed off.

Turns out, I wasn't alone: The commentary went on about how the creators got HUGE amounts of hate mail that described how Girl A should have died horribly, and how she was an awful person, and Verhoeven expressed...total shock. He pointed out in the commentary that Girl A was NEVER into the main character that much, and that their relationship was basically doomed from the get go.

...and I realized, he was absolutely right.

And, in fact, at the end of the movie, it never states that the "imprinted" couple gets together. It depends on how you interpret the last scene of the film.

It made me realize that the whole concept of "the two people meet, they MUST IN LOVE" is so ingrained and imprinted into our fiction that we don't even think about it.

...and then I wrote it into my book.

BUT, at least the main character noticed on the last page and went, "GODDAMN IT!" just before the book ended.
 

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When I read the thread title, I thought this would be about insta-love at first sight or something similar to (prepare for skin-crawling) Jacob imprinting on a newborn Renesmee Cullen in Breaking Dawn. I've heard several explanations for that bit, but so far, no one can come up with an explanation of imprinting that doesn't scream "Pedophilia" or "Child grooming." In fact, about the only kind of imprinting that makes sense to me, is the kind observed in our world where newly hatched birds will imprint on the first living thing they see and regard them as their mother.

In fact, the idea of insta-love can DIAF. Also, maybe this is just me, but in general, can we have teen couples where the parties don't all live happily ever after? The man or woman doesn't have to suddenly transform into an abusive asshole, but something similar to Forever where the couple break up because love is hella complicated, especially when you're young. I mean, statistically only a few teens end up living happily ever after with someone they met in high school. So yeah, I wanna see more breakups and not "Jane, you ignorant slut!" breakups. Breakups where the parties decide they're not right for each other, break up, and remain friends afterwards.
 

eyeblink

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My own novel Partings and Greetings involves a bisexual triangle, and the protagonist/narrator meets the other two at the same time, right at the beginning. So hopefully this won't give away who ends up with whom at the end...
 

MaryLennox

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What I would like to see is an ending to a love triangle where the MC chooses herself. "Pulling a Kelly", so to speak. That would be just awesome and a great message to send about personal responsibility and making the right choices in life.

It's been awhile since I read it, but I'm pretty sure the Kel/Protector of the Small books by Tamora Pierce end with the mc girl choosing herself, even though there is I think one guy (Dom?) who is somewhat interested/friends with her.

I went to a Tamora Pierce reading a few years ago and a young girl asked, "So - who does Kel end up with? It doesn't say in the book!" There was some "Oooohhhhs," from the crowd of older, more understanding girls who obviously liked that Kel didn't have to "end up" with someone for the book series to come to an end.
 
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