Skewering the Trope!

Parataxis · Jan 22, 2015

I was reading the "What NOT to do" thread and I was thinking about the next step.

I plotted my WiP around violently subvert the sanctity of the "Power of Love saves the day/I know you're in there" trope: The main characters find out that they might go evil, and so they exchange keep sakes and promise not to give up on each other. When the climax occurs, the day is saved but --surprise!-- the Love interest had been taken over by his evil side. The main character fights him for a while before presenting his keepsake (his mother's wedding ring) and imploring him to come back and he takes if from her and then... he throws it away and stabs her in the gut! He then proceeds to try in kill her until she is saved by the cavalry.

This moment has always been really important to me in the story because since the possibility of going evil hangs over the entire story, I felt like I needed to show that this was not going to be solved by positive thinking.

It's also fun writing in a way, because the trope is so well known that even if I set the subversion up really strongly people still won't be expecting it!

So what about you all? Have you ever planned a WiP around destroying a trope that annoys you? Have you ever taken a "what NOT to do" so to heart that you've gone out of your way to skewer it?

Usher · Jan 22, 2015

Yes and no.

I'm not a great believer in tropes or cliches just good and bad stories.

However when I include something I know I got from somewhere else I do go out of my way to change it and make it unrecognisable.

My first fantasy had regeneration (wonder where that has happened before?), a king who shifted into a falcon (He-Man?) and fantasy ever has an elderly mentor character or an orphan now does it?. I find it interesting that my least original ideas are the one my readers and an agent or two have called my most original

.

My elderly mentor is a bisexual man, who kills without thinking and carries a pink, sparkly mobile phone instead of a staff -- because texting is so much better than mind reading otherwise you might discover your bum really does look big in that robe.

And my orphan isn't poor. He's the king's son and finds himself king when his father and older brother are assassinated. The kid doesn't even know how to wash dishes or make a cup of tea.

My new one I had a group of friends that are a bit "Scooby" "Harry, Ron and Hermione." So I changed them around a bit -- one has been my MCs best-friend since birth -- he can't read but learns and becomes a bookworm, another is a tough girl whose mother is a witch and father a brownie. She's bright but not bookish and carries a baseball bat just in case and another is a gender undecided fairy who has been thrown out of the fairy realm for not conforming to their strict rules on the matter.

My elderly mentor is more traditional and I do need to work something out for him.

Sage · Jan 22, 2015

My android novel was created around taking the instalove trope and turning it upside down, and unfortunately everyone focused on the instalove at the beginning and said, "Nobody wants to read that anymore."

Parataxis · Jan 22, 2015

Usher: I am not advocating for the skewering of all tropes, or even any particular trope all the time. Tropes and common narrative devices do exist though, and sometimes there's a story to be made by asking "what if this went differently". In fact they can be most powerful in trappings that are otherwise familiar.

You seem like you have a really interesting grasp of character though. I especially liked the idea of a Harry, Ron and Hermione who were not always as they are now since I think that get's overlooked as a possibility.

Sage: Darn, that sounds fun!

Let's see: I once wrote a story around the idea that the main characters get sucked into another world but had them not speak the language when they arrived, hilarity and cultural misunderstanding ensued!

Becca C. · Jan 22, 2015

I kind of have this idea for an adult fantasy retelling of Snow White that plays with the "love's first kiss" waking her up trope. Spoilers: love's first kiss will wake her... but she and the hero have already had their first kiss. Dun dun dun...

Usher · Jan 22, 2015

Parataxis said:
Usher: I am not advocating for the skewering of all tropes, or even any particular trope all the time. Tropes and common narrative devices do exist though, and sometimes there's a story to be made by asking "what if this went differently". In fact they can be most powerful in trappings that are otherwise familiar.

A trope or cliche is usually something that can be amazing and has at some stage been done exceptionally well but then has a lot of bad copies.

Readers in general tend not to mind cliche or tropes if they enjoyed the story.

Wizarding boarding school anyone?

I'm actually toying with the idea of having like a finishing school for magic folk - I know my MCs grandfather has a country estate but as yet I don't know why or what he does there. My magic folk can't use magic until they have been through puberty though otherwise they lose power after they retain their power.

Samsonet · Jan 22, 2015

Is it just me, or are these trope-parody books getting boring? It's like people have stopped trying to be original and are just going to mock the tropes instead. I don't mean specific tropes like this one (though tbh if I read this I'd be pretty mad and may or may not out the book down right there) -- I mean the ones that start "My name is Raven Renessmee Halloween Eva and my hair is sparkly blond and I'm super FAT and UGLY."

Like. It's not even the parody I'm mad at. It's the patronizing voice of it. If you have so little respect for teenagers and the books they like, go away.

/derail, sorry for the rant

dancing-drama · Jan 22, 2015

I love myself some good tropes! Honestly, I don't think they need twisting or being turned at a 180 degree angle just to make them interesting again.
I liked love triangles when I was 13. (Jacob/Bella/Edward to be painstakingly honest.) And I still like them almost 10 years later. (Let that sink in. Twilight was published in 2005.)

Soooo... I guess I just like giving tropes my very own spin. My current novel is all about the "good witch getting sucked into dark magic" - and you've all probably read a book like that, watched a movie like that or thought of a story like that. -- But what matters is how you combine tropes, right?

I guess we're all fed up by the "new girl in town" trope + the "mysterious but handsome guy" trope + the "some sort of romeo and juliet" trope + the "I'm so plain, but the school hottie likes me" trope....
If you changed the last one and combined the following: new girl in town + mysterious but handsome guy + some sort of romeo and juliet + "I'm a badass antihero and my goal is to kill all of you" ---- hell, I'd read the sh*t out of that. If Bella had been an antiheroic, grim hunter type of girl, can you imagine the badassery awesomeness? (And the inevitable heartbreak because antiheroes don't just turn into the good guy and let everyone live happily ever after.)

PoppysInARow · Jan 22, 2015

Sage said:
My android novel was created around taking the instalove trope and turning it upside down, and unfortunately everyone focused on the instalove at the beginning and said, "Nobody wants to read that anymore."

Definitely a worry. Readers will recognize what troupe you're using and be fed up before they get to your twist. It's all about how you manage it.

Although, I will say that Cynthia Hand's Unearthly goes along a similar premise. It has the main character fawning over the hot, popular boy, and it seems like an A to B romance, but part way through completely flips it on its head, and the MC ends up with someone else. Someone who she actually has chemistry with. While reading, there were a few times where I rolled my eyes at how the 'troupe' was playing out, and I don't know if I would have finished if I hadn't been told by a friend that the book "took a massive turn." However, once I got to that part, the book became one of my favorites because of it. It added to the depth of the story later when the perfect boy goes after the MC, who is happy with someone else.

If you can keep the "troupe" in the subplot and keep the reader interested with a more original idea in the forefront, they'll keep reading until the story turns the cliche on its head. The trick is keeping their faith and keeping them reading.

Brutal Mustang · Jan 22, 2015

PoppysInARow said:
Definitely a worry. Readers will recognize what troupe you're using and be fed up before they get to your twist.

I agree with you, Katie. And this goes with a lot of things in stories, like characters doing dumb things that turn out to be secretly smart. As a reader, I'm ruthless. I rarely wait to see if 'teh smarts' will happen.

Little Ming · Jan 23, 2015

Sage said:
My android novel was created around taking the instalove trope and turning it upside down, and unfortunately everyone focused on the instalove at the beginning and said, "Nobody wants to read that anymore."

PoppysInARow said:
Definitely a worry. Readers will recognize what troupe you're using and be fed up before they get to your twist. It's all about how you manage it.

Brutal Mustang said:
I agree with you, Katie. And this goes with a lot of things in stories, like characters doing dumb things that turn out to be secretly smart. As a reader, I'm ruthless. I rarely wait to see if 'teh smarts' will happen.

*sigh*

This is almost exactly my current dilemma, though not necessarily YA specific. How long can I play a trope straight before my readers get bored with me? And what about the readers who wanted it to stay straight, only to be thrown a surprise twist?

I know, you can't please all readers, but this seems like it has the possibility to upset everyone...

Brutal Mustang · Jan 23, 2015

Little Ming said:
*sigh*

This is almost exactly my current dilemma, though not necessarily YA specific. How long can I play a trope straight before my readers get bored with me? And what about the readers who wanted it to stay straight, only to be thrown a surprise twist?

I know, you can't please all readers, but this seems like it has the possibility to upset everyone...

Maybe you can give readers a heads up, by showing them anything can happen, right from page one. If they think your writing has a wildly unpredictable feel to it, they'll stay (or go early, depending on their cup of tea).

BBBurke · Jan 25, 2015

Parataxis said:
So what about you all? Have you ever planned a WiP around destroying a trope that annoys you? Have you ever taken a "what NOT to do" so to heart that you've gone out of your way to skewer it?

I feel like I've read/beta-read a number of books that seemed motivated by destroying a trope. That's not why I want to read a book - I want a good story. If, as a reader, I'm thinking about the trope it's setting up (whether to fulfill or destroy), it normally means it's a bad story. The good ones don't have me worrying about tropes at all.

As a writer, I think it's fine to be inspired by the 'what if this happened instead'. But then you better be focused on creating a great and interesting story, that happens to subvert the trope. Otherwise you're likely to create something that just sets itself up for failure - the trope-lovers will hate the ending, the trope-haters will hate the beginning.

Trope can inspire the idea, but trope shouldn't be the idea.

Chazemataz · Jan 26, 2015

I've said it before and I'll say it now: I'd really like to read a novel about a girl who realizes her hunky vampire boyfriend is actually a giant psychopath and she has to be the one to stake him in the end. I think that'd be pretty funny. Someone please write this I'll read it and give it a glowing review I promise

Sage · Jan 26, 2015

Chazemataz said:
I've said it before and I'll say it now: I'd really like to read a novel about a girl who realizes her hunky vampire boyfriend is actually a giant psychopath and she has to be the one to stake him in the end. I think that'd be pretty funny. Someone please write this I'll read it and give it a glowing review I promise

Can I point to Buffy, season 2?

LadyA · Feb 5, 2015

I don't care if it's a trope, I just LOVE the 'Romeo and Juliet' scenario in YA. Because most teen romance in real life has conflict centered around rather mundane subjects (at least, me and my friends' romances) that would be super dull in a book.
The idea of a boy being totally off-limits is always going to be a pull for a teenage girl (you always want what you can't have, right?) and the whole secret-romance thing is pretty saucy.
Plus, anything with family feuds is book catnip to me. Because family shapes, influences and defines you in so many ways. The ms that got me my agent revolves almost entirely around family, with only a light romantic subplot that is again influenced by the family dynamics in the book.

Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent! Just my two pennies worth

Lonegungrrly · Feb 5, 2015

Chazemataz said:
I've said it before and I'll say it now: I'd really like to read a novel about a girl who realizes her hunky vampire boyfriend is actually a giant psychopath and she has to be the one to stake him in the end. I think that'd be pretty funny. Someone please write this I'll read it and give it a glowing review I promise

Ha it's so funny you should say that. I wrote this almost exactly. Like, he's ACTUALLY a psychopath. And I wanted to subvert it and make it like the girl isn't weak and head over heels, when she finds out she is strong and won't put up with his BS and eventually is the one to bring him down.

Yeah... Every bit of agent feedback has told me to un twist the twisted trope and have her stand by him, have him change, and have them be together. Currently R&Ring to see if it'll work. They say they want something different but I suppose tropes are tropes for a reason!

Little Ming · Feb 5, 2015

RE: Vampire tropes:

Not exactly what you guys are asking for, but here's a recent story from DSF. Is it subverting the trope? Averting? I forget the term...

Samsonet · Feb 5, 2015

I think the word is deconstruction. But it's a few years too late, imo. Twilight was published in 2005. We've had people telling us for years that it is an Unhealthy Relationship. At this point, having the vampire and human be in a healthy, loving relationship would be a bigger twist than showing what Edward and Bella would be like in real life.

It's kinda ironic, but even skewering a trope needs an original twist, if the trope was big enough.

Little Ming · Feb 5, 2015

Samsonet said:
I think the word is deconstruction.

Thanks. Now to waste more time on TVTropes.

ArachnePhobia · Feb 5, 2015

Chazemataz said:
I've said it before and I'll say it now: I'd really like to read a novel about a girl who realizes her hunky vampire boyfriend is actually a giant psychopath and she has to be the one to stake him in the end. I think that'd be pretty funny. Someone please write this I'll read it and give it a glowing review I promise

There was a book like that a full decade before Twilight: Look For Me By Moonlight, by Mary Downing Hahn. Earliest print date I can find is 1995, and that's about when I remember reading it. Girl from broken home falls for handsome sympathetic stranger. Handsome sympathetic stranger is a vampire.

Handsome sympathetic stranger is a bastard, tries to eat what's left of her family.

I thought it was a fun read, but my friend who likes the trope played straight absolutely hated it.

Helix · Feb 5, 2015

ArachnePhobia said:
There was a book like that a full decade before Twilight: Look For Me By Moonlight, by Mary Downing Hahn. Earliest print date I can find is 1995, and that's about when I remember reading it. Girl from broken home falls for handsome sympathetic stranger. Handsome sympathetic stranger is a vampire.

Handsome sympathetic stranger is a bastard, tries to eat what's left of her family.

I thought it was a fun read, but my friend who likes the trope played straight absolutely hated it.

Isn't that the essence of vampire stories from Dracula onwards?

Emermouse · Feb 5, 2015

I started my own vampire story a long time ago. Got tired of countless stories where vampires were basically puddles of angst in black leather. Wanted to write a vampire who was an ordinary guy: neither a ball of angst nor an amoral sociopath. He doesn't always enjoy being a vampire but has more or less made his peace with it. He approaches it like Diabetes: it's not fun but take care of yourself and you'll be okay. He lives on the fringes, making a living at a night job, usually as a security guard, and gets necessary transfusions by claiming to suffer from a rare form of anemia.

I came up with it because I was tired of all the angst. Don't get me wrong: I understand a little angst, but at some point, the character needs to either make peace with it or stay up and watch the sunrise.

ZerosJourney · Feb 5, 2015

I don't know that you can say I really set out to skewer the trope, but I once wrote a book that started out as a typical vengeance story, "You killed my father. Prepare to die" style. But as the story went on it became clear that the traitor the MC was chasing hadn't actually done anything wrong and ended up being betrayed by the MC.

I mean, the execution of it wasn't fantastic (this all started something like seven years ago) but the idea still kind of intrigues me.

lucyfilmmaker · Feb 6, 2015

ArachnePhobia said:
There was a book like that a full decade before Twilight: Look For Me By Moonlight, by Mary Downing Hahn. Earliest print date I can find is 1995, and that's about when I remember reading it. Girl from broken home falls for handsome sympathetic stranger. Handsome sympathetic stranger is a vampire.

Handsome sympathetic stranger is a bastard, tries to eat what's left of her family.

I thought it was a fun read, but my friend who likes the trope played straight absolutely hated it.

OH MY GOD I loved Mary Downing Hahn when I was a kid, Wait Till Helen Comes permanently scarred my psyche... I'd forgotten all about Look For Me By Moonlight. Now I must have it!

Skewering the Trope!

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