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Captain America: The Winter Soldier
- Thread starter Stacia Kane
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Man, five years? You are WAY more optimistic about DC getting Wonder Woman on the screen than I am. I'm honestly reading shoehorning her into Batman Superman as "There, you happy now?" I mean jeeze, we get Flash before her?
Certainly hope I'm wrong.
In the meantime - Black Widow movie, yes please!
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Man, five years? You are WAY more optimistic about DC getting Wonder Woman on the screen than I am. I'm honestly reading shoehorning her into Batman Superman as "There, you happy now?" I mean jeeze, we get Flash before her?
Certainly hope I'm wrong.
In the meantime - Black Widow movie, yes please!
Same.
I'm willing to wait more than five years if the alternative is a "just so you'll stop bothering us" script. I don't think that attitude can make a good movie.
;_;
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Well, justice be swift, whoever sacked Joss Whedon from Wonder Woman was probably fired not long after Avengers' opening weekend.
I'm a bit wary about the Black Widow movie right now, especially after watching her in this movie. Don't get me wrong, I love watching her kick butt, but Whedon was actually better at working out the skills that make her stand out: infiltration and manipulation. Spying, without the mark ever being aware that h's been played. The Winter Soldier was more about shooting and punching (actually a little too much shooting for my taste - if I want to see that, I go watch a John Woo movie, not a superhero movie) than about outsmarting the bad guys.
A Black Widow movie, played right, could be an amazing spy thriller. But I'm afraid Marvel won't have the balls to tone down the action enough for that to work.
Oh well, I'll watch it anyway.
Loved The Wionter Soldier, but there was quite some stuff that didn't make sense. Like, never mind the weird science, but what was the point of those computer files they got from the ship, and why were they on the ship anyway? As far as I can tell, all the program did was point them to the SHIELD facility with the gorgeous old computers, boot them and then have a Zola avatar explain the plot to Cap & Black Widow. Seemed a bit random.
Also, Robert Redford didn't do his usual thing where I'm always totally compelled to trust him. Which may well be what they hired him for. Insterad, he got a little too inquisitive a little too soon after Fury told Cap to trust nobody...
I'm a bit wary about the Black Widow movie right now, especially after watching her in this movie. Don't get me wrong, I love watching her kick butt, but Whedon was actually better at working out the skills that make her stand out: infiltration and manipulation. Spying, without the mark ever being aware that h's been played. The Winter Soldier was more about shooting and punching (actually a little too much shooting for my taste - if I want to see that, I go watch a John Woo movie, not a superhero movie) than about outsmarting the bad guys.
A Black Widow movie, played right, could be an amazing spy thriller. But I'm afraid Marvel won't have the balls to tone down the action enough for that to work.
Oh well, I'll watch it anyway.
Loved The Wionter Soldier, but there was quite some stuff that didn't make sense. Like, never mind the weird science, but what was the point of those computer files they got from the ship, and why were they on the ship anyway? As far as I can tell, all the program did was point them to the SHIELD facility with the gorgeous old computers, boot them and then have a Zola avatar explain the plot to Cap & Black Widow. Seemed a bit random.
Also, Robert Redford didn't do his usual thing where I'm always totally compelled to trust him. Which may well be what they hired him for. Insterad, he got a little too inquisitive a little too soon after Fury told Cap to trust nobody...
More like DC/Warner Bros. is in a completely reactive mode where they have squandered their advantages of having a line of iconic super heroes, yet have utterly and completely failed to exploit that edge into successful franchise films without Batman or Superman.
In 2014, we still have The Amazing Spider-Man 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past and the Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man(?!) and The Avengers: Age of Ultron all up and taking swings before Superman vs. Batman finally get up to deck in 2016. Two years with nothing to offer is an eternity for a genre of films that has to peak sometime (but hasn't as of yet).
Oh, and Captain America 3 is already claiming the same 2016 opening week as Supes vs. Bats (does Cap die and Bucky/Winter Soldier pick up the shield as it played out in the comics?). You would think Marvel has to be nuts to go mano a mano against DC's biggest guns, but they had it first and betting against Marvel in the multiplex has been a fool's errand.
Someone is going to blink and move out of this opening week and I'm willing to bet it will be the one that has already moved once already.
It'll be interesting to see if it happens. When DC delayed Batman Superman, picking that same date was like walking up to Marvel and throwing down the gauntlet. If they slink away now, it's going to look pretty sad.
But on the other hand, if they both open the same weekend, it's just going to hurt both movies. Hopefully greedier heads will prevail
It'll be interesting to see if it happens. When DC delayed Batman Superman, picking that same date was like walking up to Marvel and throwing down the gauntlet. If they slink away now, it's going to look pretty sad.
But on the other hand, if they both open the same weekend, it's just going to hurt both movies. Hopefully greedier heads will prevail
It's going to hurt DC a lot more than Marvel.
They'll split the take for opening weekend, but no matter how much of that pot Marvel loses to DC, they still come out ahead due to the momentum of the triple-phase-Avenger-verse. Anything they might lose is going to be made up either in the next weekend, or at worst, the next film. DC doesn't have that cushion. They're not just playing chicken, they're standing in front of a bullet train.
All very true.
I wonder if DC isn't underestimating how much goodwill they've squandered on both sides of the ball, but especially on the movie side. The Batman movies were amazing, but aside from that, there's MoS and Green Lantern, one of which at best split audiences and the other of which was a soulless mess. I feel like there's just not a lot of benefit of the doubt left.
I suppose a lot depends on Guardians, Avengers and Ant Man too. Quality may have varied, but thus far, Marvel hasn't really released an outright dud. But if they have a bad miss on one or two of the remaining movies between now and Cap 3, I guess the whole thing could look very different.
I would expect in a head-to-head competition, Captain America 3 would falter against the combined might of Superman-Batman-Wonder Woman and whomever else the hell DC stuffs into the movie, but if blunts their box office momentum and it doesn't open to somewhere in the $100 million range, Warner Brothers will need real superheroes to catch all the falling bodies being tossed out of hi-rise office towers.
The trap DC is in is they have bet their entire superhero film future on one movie. This movie can't underperform or fall short the way Man of Steel did which barely edged out Thor: The Dark World in profitability.
Marvel has been able to load its gun with several bullets so Thor misses they still have Iron Man, Captain America, and The Avengers locked and loaded with more possibilities for The Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow and the Falcon. Marvel mastermind Kevin Feige says they have their movies planned out to 2028! The fact that actors like Sebastian Stan (Bucky/Winter Soldier) are signed to do six to nine pictures makes it clear than when Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans and others "age out" or are done slipping on the spandex, the franchises will go on and on and on...
I don't see a similar game plan from DC/Warner. They are dealing with a recast Batman, David Goyer and Zack Snyder turned loose without a Christopher Nolan to reign in their worst excesses (and Nolan disagreed with their decision to have Superman kill Zod).
Nolan is gone to pursue his own vision and while the hope is Snyder/Goyer will successfully set up a Justice League franchise it all hinges on Supes/Bats doing billion dollar business.
It could all come together as planned. But if it doesn't DC isn't as well-positioned as Marvel to overcome a cinematic setback.
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I always wondered how the X-Men ever became so popular. I remember them as an also-ran team in garish yellow costumes -- kind of Marvel's B-movie-like comic book response to DC's Legion of Super-Heroes or Teen Titans.
I'd say this guy had something to do with the X-Men's popularity.
Some garish yellow costumes go over better than others.
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If I recall correctly, the print runs for X-Men comics were always smaller than those for the Avengers, back in the Sixties and Seventies at least. And that was because the Avengers outsold the X-Men. In fact (again, I'm going by memory), I think X-Men was one of the weakest performers in sales for Marvel for quite a while. Which is one of the reasons X-Men comics rose in value far more rapidly down the road.
I didn't know this, unfortunately. I tossed most of my comics when I hit high school, choosing to hold on to just my Avengers. And I had quite a few X-Men, including some of the really hard to get (now) ones. Oh well.
I didn't know this, unfortunately. I tossed most of my comics when I hit high school, choosing to hold on to just my Avengers. And I had quite a few X-Men, including some of the really hard to get (now) ones. Oh well.
You know, in hindsight, it's too bad they couldn't work a Hulk cameo into the film. Banner said that it wasn't possible to kill him because the Hulk would take over to save his life. Then Stark basically said the same thing when he told Banner that the amount of radiation that it took to create the Hulk should have killed him.
They could have let the Insight get off one shot (and it makes sense that Banner would be a primary offensive target to neutralize him first) and shown the Hulk doing exactly what both characters said he'd do. He didn't need to be close enough to the Triskelion to help out with the fighting, just an insert clip.
They could have let the Insight get off one shot (and it makes sense that Banner would be a primary offensive target to neutralize him first) and shown the Hulk doing exactly what both characters said he'd do. He didn't need to be close enough to the Triskelion to help out with the fighting, just an insert clip.
That would have been an awesome scene.
I finally saw it this afternoon at a swanky local dine-in theatre. Even the goofy bits were forgivable.
I finally saw it this afternoon at a swanky local dine-in theatre. Even the goofy bits were forgivable.
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I used to have this discussion a lot with people in my film classes. I think in many ways that superhero films are filling the void that was previously filled by the abundance of westerns. They strike similar, but updated chords that westerns used to target. In many ways that's really exciting for the genre as it is really just starting to come more into the mainstream. This also means there will undoubtedly be duds amongst the gems.
I saw it in an I-MAX 3-d theater yesterday along with my wife. It was her first 3-D movie, my second. The first Captain America was my first.
Great movie, seeming enough like a comic book episode to make it nice. Thanks, Marvel.
Great movie, seeming enough like a comic book episode to make it nice. Thanks, Marvel.
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I just found out that Sebastian Stan plays the Winter Soldier. I was prepared to wait for the DVD, but now I may need to visit a movie house.
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Do it, Johnny. You won't regret it. Stan is excellent (both Sebastian and Lee)
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Just don't forget about Jack Kirby. He'd have loved this.
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But he doesn't have a Stan in his name...
You have to grant the Stan Lee cameo in this one is great.
(Seriously, though, anyone and everyone involved in making this movie/the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe happen from comic to big screen deserves mad props.)
He's in the room where they're wiping the Winter Soldier's memory after he first recognizes Cap.
According to some gal on YouTube who likes math a lot better than I do, the estimated price of 12 pounds* of vibranium in movieverse is FIFTY-FOUR MILLION U.S. dollars (even adjusting for decades of inflation, I direly hope Howard Stark helped them pay for all that). Pick up the #%$@ shield, Steve!
That definitely bothered me as a difference between Captain America: The First Avenger and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. You see him going out of his way to keep the shield in his possession in TFA, but then in TWS it's like he can't wait to get rid of the thing (okay, I'm exaggerating, but just look at how he took the time to lay it down before grabbing the controls to Red Skull's plane). On the other hand, I can see how it was potentially a way for the scriptwriters to show how wrought up he was on a personal level in that scene- but that doesn't mean I have to like their decision, dangit!
The thing with Cap's shield is that, when they say it's an extension of the man himself, they're not just talking about how it's used in-universe. As a narrative device- I'm not really sure I can even explain what I'm trying to explain, except to refer y'all to the comic storylines wherein it's been used by someone else, broken+repaired, etc. His shield is his psyche (kind of). They CAN'T have him running around shieldless throughout the next movie any more than they could have changed Winter Soldier's identity- yes, the MCU is a different universe, but there are limits to how far it can stray.
* the listed weight of the shield
QFT'd.
And to add that comicside, it's actually a unique vibranium alloy made in America and behaves different than any other piece of vibranium (pure or mixed) you will find in universe 616 (I dunno for sure what it's made of in any of the alternate and cartoon universes, offhand). Not unlike how he's the only one for whom the serum has worked as intended. I was surprised watching the first movie to hear them note the MCU version as pure vibranium.
The vibranium is partially responsible for this, too. Well, that and the super-soldier-perfect reflexes, super-soldier-perfect hand-eye coordination, and buttloads of practice.
If Sebastian Stan's acting skills don't surpass the admittedly excellent technique behind Heath Ledger's Joker by, say, 2016 (and arguably, they might already) I'll eat my hat, coat, and boots. If you aren't sold on his take on Winter Soldier, take a look at some of his pre-Marvel roles. The dude is almost single-handedly responsible for reminding me that acting could still be an art form.
I almost wish they'd stayed an also-ran. Never really found them enjoyable, and seems like nowadays you can't get a good print dose of Avengers without being roped in to enduring some X-Men too. (Of course, that could just be me exaggerating due to my lingering frustration with AVX. Yeah, I need to learn to let go.)
Now that you mention it, very true.
Certainly I'd classify this as a mistake rather than an intentional Godwin. I mean, I always assumed that the reason HYDRA was made distinct from the Nazis comicside was to cut down on controversy by not having so many Nazis around, and not implying anything presumtuous about the role of the U.S. in WWII, and stuff.
Though to be fair, were they really shown the door by the Nazis for being too evil, or just for their evil goals not being 100% in line with Hitler's? I'd always thought the latter.
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I just saw it this past weekend! It was amazing!
Out of all the "solo" super hero movies Marvel has done, I want to say this one was the best. Its in close competition with Iron Man 3 IMO
Out of all the "solo" super hero movies Marvel has done, I want to say this one was the best. Its in close competition with Iron Man 3 IMO