The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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James D Macdonald

Re: RE: it's just

But, they have no guarantee that their authors or authors' friends and family will buy the books--although human nature and vanity dictates otherwise.

They know that, on average, every book will sell 75 copies. The ones who sell fewer will be made up for by the ones who sell more. They don't need to force authors to buy copies of their own books. They know that authors will do it, if there's no other way to get their books out to the public.

They do a dead-cheap job of production. No editing, quick-n-dirty Photoshop covers, pouring text into a template rather than designing the interiors. They don't do any promotion or marketing. They don't have a salesforce. They don't publish a catalog. They don't pay for copyright. They only offer a one-dollar advance. They don't take returns. They offer lousy royalties. They give short discounts. These books are done on the cheap.

We know that companies that do have a sales force, do publish a catalog, do take returns, do pay advances, do pay standard royalties and offer standard discounts, pay for shipping, and all the rest of those professional-publisher things -- yet use the exact same digital printing technology (through the exact same printing company) -- sell their books for five dollars a copy less than PA, and still make a profit.

The high cover price (and the minimal spending on production) is the key. For those average 75 sales, PA collects a $375 vanity press fee, on top of the profits that they'd normally make if they were a real publisher.

What Lightning Source International charges them is 0.013 cents per page, plus ninety cents for the cover. A 200 page book costs them $3.50 to print, they sell it to the author at a 30% discount ($13.97), and they charge for shipping.

On those 75 copies they pull in $784.88 after cost of printing is deducted, plus $40 for shipping, minus whatever shipping really costs them. Can they do whatever "editing" they do and make a cover for less than that? You betcha.

It's a recipe for making money.
 

vstrauss

Re: RE: it's just

They stay afloat because in addition to doing everything on the cheap and overpricing their books, they reverse the normal publishing procedure. Instead of selling thousands of books from a few dozen authors, they sell a few dozen books from thousands of authors.

- Victoria
 

James D Macdonald

Re: RE: it's just

But, they have no guarantee that their authors or authors' friends and family will buy the books--although human nature and vanity dictates otherwise.

They know that, on average, every book will sell 75 copies. The ones who sell fewer will be made up for by the ones who sell more. They don't need to force authors to buy copies of their own books. They know that authors will do it, if there's no other way to get their books out to the public.

They do a dead-cheap job of production. No editing, quick-n-dirty Photoshop covers, pouring text into a template rather than designing the interiors. They don't do any promotion or marketing. They don't have a salesforce. They don't publish a catalog. They don't pay for copyright. They only offer a one-dollar advance. They don't take returns. They offer lousy royalties. They give short discounts. These books are done on the cheap.

We know that companies that do have a sales force, do publish a catalog, do take returns, do pay advances, do pay standard royalties and offer standard discounts, pay for shipping, and all the rest of those professional-publisher things -- yet use the exact same digital printing technology (through the exact same printing company) -- sell their books for five dollars a copy less than PA, and still make a profit.

The high cover price (and the minimal spending on production) is the key. For those average 75 sales, PA collects a $375 vanity press fee, on top of the profits that they'd normally make if they were a real publisher.

What Lightning Source International charges them is 0.013 cents per page, plus ninety cents for the cover. A 200 page book costs them $3.50 to print, they sell it to the author at a 30% discount ($13.97), and they charge for shipping.

On those 75 copies they pull in $784.88 after cost of printing is deducted, plus $40 for shipping, minus whatever shipping really costs them. Can they do whatever "editing" they do and make a cover for less than that? You betcha.

It's a recipe for making money.
 

Auraura

Re: point of reference

Okay so BN wont buy books from PA (I know that, I read that) but maybe they will through the distribution company that in some paper trail PA actually owns. Being a person who deals with business people nearly every day I can honestly tell you that deep investigation as to which company is run by whom is not high on the priority lists of big companies. It's considered inefficient. Lol

I'm thinking the only way PA could make a profit is by using an alias in this way, filtering the altered works so that they do make it on the shelves but the true authors never see a dime and never know it is happening until it's too late. After all, paying authors a percentage of sales is less money going into the pockets of the people who work for PA. So perhaps you misunderstood my post or I didn't express myself as eloquently as I should have.

But then again I'm a pessimist after reading endless threads about the sham that is Publish America and have seen someone near and dear to me burned by this company. She's been working for years (like most of you have) to get published. She's good at what she does and deserves the recognition like I'm sure most of you do. But now it's back to square one, in addition trying to keep her work from becoming the victim of plaguerizers (hope I spelled that right LOL).

Auraura
(Concerned sister of a PA victim)
 

SRHowen

Re: and

I think James was addressing Gigi in his post.

Answer: Well, you may not want think about it--but every PA book I have seen needed serious editing. I am not saying they were "bad" "awful" horrible" books. They needed a heavy handed red pencil wielding editor. They needed a crit group, a beta reader, or maybe even to be put in a closet and count toward an author's million words of crapola.

In other words I doubt they would make money off putting someone else's name on them and putting them on book store shelves.

OH MY GOSH SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL MY WORK is a common cry of new authors. Why would someone in the first place? (New authors simply don't sell well enough from an unknown publisher) And if it were as easy as you say, then why not do it with King, Rice, or our own James D.?
 

James D Macdonald

Re: point of reference

Nah, don't think so. PA isn't in the business of selling books to the public. Their vanity model gives them all the cash they need, from the authors' pockets.

Suppose they were stealing books, retitling them, and putting some other author's name on 'em. The only way that scam could work is if the book never sold, since the more copies it sold the better the odds that one or another author would find a copy of their own book. Authors know their books. Changing a few names wouldn't stop them from figuring it out. The first time one was noticed, the gaff would be blown for real.

Selling books to the public is too much work. They'd have to hire an editorial staff, a marketing department, a sales force, do publicity ... no, I don't see it happening. They've got a comfortable little con game running. They don't need to complicate it with work.
 

James D Macdonald

Recruiting

I recall that Dee Power was recruited by PA. Here's another writer who was recruited:

<a href="http://www.writers.net/forum/read/6/8450/8450" target="_new">www.writers.net/forum/read/6/8450/8450</a>

See Dolores Dawes post of 09-14-04 10:03


It isn't just that PA is lying in wait beside the trail hoping for unwary writers to come by. They're out hunting.
 

priceless1

Re: Another rant

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>When I say "follow the publisher's guidelines to the letter" I mean it.<hr></blockquote>
(sigh) Thank you, Uncle Jim. Nothing is more trying than receiving a submission where the author has obviously not followed the guidelines. We have those guidelines for a reason and it can get very tedious to wade through a submission only to find that it doesn't meet our needs.

Authors may think we're just a cranky lot, but that's not it at all. We simply don't want to waste our time and that of the author's. As an example, we have certain genres that we very pointedly do not accept, yet I still recieve them. I could just deep six it, but I don't. I feel if the author took the time to submit they deserve a reply. But it does take time out of my day to email them to refer them to our website so they may see that their particular writing doesn't fit into our lineup.

We have plenty authors email us for submissions guidelines and I'm all too happy to oblige them with the information. Anyway, thanks, James, my eyes thank you.
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: It's just

Hey Lynn

I'm sending you my collection of young adult horror short stories. Look for it soon.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: It's just

Hey Lynn, when he showed them to me, the purple crayon printing didn't hurt my eyes at all. Well, maybe only one eye. Uh, not the one I have left. ;)
 

priceless1

Re: It's just

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm sending you my collection of young adult horror short stories. Look for it soon.<hr></blockquote>
LOLOL. You goof. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" />

Dave, don't make me come after you, big guy.
 

GigiSahi

Re: and

This is another blow to PA authors. All new authors who ignorantly published with them, like myself, have to put up with the presumption that our writing is mediocre--on top of everything else! The presumption is, by those who were in the know before we were and managed to avoid PA, that we can't cut it as writers and if we really had any talent a reputable publisher would have snatched up our mss.

I had my ms professionally edited prior to submitting it anywhere. I belong to a few on-line writers groups with new and relatively established writers. There exists a unanimous agreement that no writer worth his quill and ink would submit a ms without first having it edited. Still, the presumption persists that if we were foolish enough to sign on with PA then we were foolish enough not to abide by that rule.

I have a question. I was wondering if I were to download this thread and present it to an attorney, would that get me out of my PA contract? I don't know much about contract law but, I do know that all parties involved must uphold their end of the contract. Obviously, PA has duped its authors. They've made multiple false claims which gave their authors a great deal of false hope. Unfortunately, that doesn't become apparent until after the books are published. Even if we wrote stories that are as good or better than what the major houses are publishing, we wear the disgrace of being PA authors. NO FAIR!

Any feedback would be most appreciated.

~ Gigi
 

James D Macdonald

Re: and

There exists a unanimous agreement that no writer worth his quill and ink would submit a ms without first having it edited.

Alas, this isn't quite true either. No one needs to have their manuscript "professionally edited" before submitting it. The publisher will provide professional editing when the time comes, at no cost to you.

Many people have writers' groups or selected beta readers. That isn't quite the same thing.

On the question of getting out of your contract -- talk with a lawyer. Mention "fraudulent inducement" and "deception by omission."
 

Sher2

Re: Recruiting

It isn't just that PA is lying in wait beside the trail hoping for unwary writers to come by. They're out hunting.

What is PA's "official" stance on soliciting writers? Do they admit or deny it?
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: and

Gigi, the best results so far appear to be for those writers who either had too many sales for PA's comfort and were cut loose before they could create a precedent that other PA authors would also want or who wrote to the Maryland Attorney General, the Frederick, Maryland BBB, and the Federal Trade Commission with their complaints about how PA is operating. From the looks of it, PA doesn't want any complaints on file and cut loose those authors so that they won't have any grounds to base a complaint. Because of PA's poor record of handling royalties, I wouldn't be surprised if there's probably some tax fraud there, too.
 

GigiSahi

Re: and

Thanks for the legalese!

Another question--since apparently you're the authority here! (I mean that most respectfully).

If it is not necessary to have your ms edited prior to submitting it then why is that specified on so many publishers' guidelines? I assumed that they wanted a manuscript as free of typos and as coherent as possible. Once acquired, the ms would then undergo in-depth editing for style and consistency.

But, maybe I'm wrong.

Looks like I'll be up all night downloading and printing this thread. I plan to contact an attorney before the week's out.

~ Gigi
 

James D Macdonald

The NYT Ad

Over on the PA board, I'm told, someone posted:

<BLOCKQUOTE>
I still haven't figured out the partnership angle, but I do know that a half page ad in the NYT Book Review costs over twenty grand!
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, here's the deal on the "partnership" angle: There isn't one. The Times is selling ad space, nothing more, nothing less.

And the cost of that half page ad, per the NYT rate card, is $17,635. Just one eager beaver buying a thousand copies of his own book (which we've been assured at least one person is doing) will darn-near cover the whole cost.
 

James D Macdonald

Re: and

why is that specified on so many publishers' guidelines?

This really doesn't belong in this thread (maybe join me in the Uncle Jim thread up in the Writing Novels board?), but the short answer is ... could you please point me to some of those guidelines?
 

SRHowen

Re: point of reference

Say WHAT?

There exists a unanimous agreement that no writer worth his quill and ink would submit a ms without first having it edited.

Where does this exist? At PA, at vanity publishers? I have rarely seen a legit pro agent or editor ask for this, and saying I had my ms professionally edited is not a selling point.

Then why did I spend so many years editing submitted and accepted manuscripts?

James is right, join the Uncle Jim thread--I think this was addressed there in detail.

Shawn
 

AnneMarble

Re: point of reference

James is right, join the Uncle Jim thread--I think this was addressed there in detail.

Does anyone have a specific link to that part of the thread? That thread is almost as long as this one.

Or is there a Search feature I haven't noticed? (Duh, Anne.)

BTW I really should follow that thread... :grin
 

aka eraser

Re: Another rant

Gigi, I sent you an EZ message about the professionally-edited thing.
 

aka eraser

Need help on a PA contract

Posted by ohboy88:

Sorry for another PA thread, but i thought this would be better suited by itself. I recently signed the PA contract and sent it back to them, and then got the Author Questionaire email from them, which asks for the final proof of your work and a bunch of different information, which i have not sent back. Is there anyway i can get out of this contract with them that you know of?

I don't plan on sending back my final work, or the author questionaire.

After doing some more research, which is what i should have done in the first place, i have decided my work would be best suited anywhere but with PA. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.
---------------------

Moved here because we DON'T want to start new PA threads.
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: It's just

Hey Oh Boy. Were you born in 1988? If so, that would mean you're under 18. All written contracts (with a few exceptions, but I doubt PA knows what they're doing with this sort of thing) are voidable if you signed it while a minor. PA needs to have your legal guardian do the signing on your behalf, and from what I understand they never bother.

If you're under 18 and you want out of your contract, write them a letter telling them you're voiding the contract. Send it registered mail. The moment they get it, the contract becomes legally void.
 

ohboy88

Re: It's just

Thanks for the reply, but I am over 18, have been for 10 years. I'm just a guy who usually does his homework first, but got excited about the opportunity and let his judgement get clouded.
 
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