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Head-popping?

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Roxxsmom

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There are definitely ways to show, or at least hint, that a non pov character is saying one thing while thinking something else. They're the same kinds of cues we pick up on in our daily lives when we interact with people.

"Of course I'm happy to see you." John spoke with hearty assurance, but he wouldn't meet her eyes.

Or

"What are you talking about? Of course I love my brother." The wine glass shattered in Susan's hand.

Or

"I don't believe in ghosts." The tremble in Tom's voice made his words sound a tad less brave than he'd likely intended.

The really cool thing about limited points of view is that the pov character can be wrong in their judgements sometimes as well. She can assume that the other character is avoiding eye contact because he's lying, say, but in fact he's doing it because he has a crush on her, or is simply very shy.

This also provides interesting fodder, both for characterization and plot.
 
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Marian Perera

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^ This. Language, body language, habits, etc. can all be used to characterize and to hint to the readers. The moment I read that Mrs Coulter in The Golden Compass had a daemon that took the form of a golden monkey with black hands and horny claws, I knew she wasn't to be trusted. That monkey creeped me out.
 

rwm4768

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Queen of Swords made a great point with the Game of Thrones reference. Though I have my issues with those books, I do believe Martin handles point of view very well. He puts you firmly in one character's head per scene, and you experience that scene with them, knowing only what they know, feeling only what they feel.

In general, a limited point of view is great for adding tension. Which is more tense: knowing exactly what everyone around you is thinking or worrying about what they're thinking? It works the same for the reader. By keeping the thoughts of others a mystery, you add tension.

Also, as Roxxsmom pointed out, there are ways to get across what a character might be thinking without stating it outright. This is one of those cases where Show/Don't Tell is very important. By revealing everyone's thoughts, you're simply telling the reader, and that tends to be boring.

Not to mention, there's the chance, as mentioned previously, that your POV character could make incorrect inferences. These add to conflict.
 

Jhaewyrmend

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Okay. I get it. I wasn't trying to imply I used it everywhere all the time, but just occasionally since these two characters are mostly tied to the hip. So like Omni POV in a way.

I've been researching POV pretty much all day since my original post just to try and clarify which one is and isn't the way I want to go with this particular story. So far, 3rd Person Multiple POV is the closest to what I have so far, so I'll start editing to get there I think and then move forward.

Thanks for the input guys. Really made me stop and think and understand the logic of your arguments. Makes me glad I stopped lurking just for this thread.
 

blacbird

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Read the Harry Potter books. Rowling knows what omniscient really is, and how to use it properly.

Too many think omniscient is just third person with head-hopping allowed, but it isn't.

Embed this by engraving it in a granite block you can place on your desk in front of whatever implement you use to write with, and before you start writing on any given day, recite the words you see there, aloud, in a strong voice.

Only then proceed to write.

Never submit to the sirens who tempt you by saying that random delving into the mind of any character you find convenient is a good way to narrate a story.

caw
 

Tyler Silvaris

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^ This. Language, body language, habits, etc. can all be used to characterize and to hint to the readers. The moment I read that Mrs Coulter in The Golden Compass had a daemon that took the form of a golden monkey with black hands and horny claws, I knew she wasn't to be trusted. That monkey creeped me out.

Ha! At least I wasn't the only one! It was even creepier that I'd seen the movie and the malevolent little critter was crawling across my internal peripheral every time it came up.

I rarely think about POV much, expect in the rare instances where I try to decide if it's worth the Russian roulette to use first person (a powerful tool, I just don't always trust my control to wield it properly). Apparently, from what I'm seeing in this thread, the current WIP and many of my other works are omniscient.

I may want to take a look at my various work at evaluate the POV on them, just to know and learn something about my inner bard.
 

BethS

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Anywho, thoughts and some good descriptions on headpopping? Or heck, why is it so frowned upon it seems? Thanks.

Even when it's clear whose POV it is, head-hopping tends to be just plain annoying and distracting. Better, IMO, to stick with one POV per scene. Unless you're writing in Omniscient Narrator, in which case it's the narrator who's in control of the scene, and any shifting from one character's thoughts to another is not head-hopping. (Though the potential for confusion still exists.)
 
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BethS

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This is from a sentence from Harry Potter, which is written in omni:

"But he did seem to realize he was being watched, because he looked up suddenly at the cat, which was still staring at him from the other end of the street. For some reason, the sight of the cat seemed to amuse him. He chuckled and muttered, "I should have known.""

I believe what's going on here is that the omni narrator is presenting the outsider's viewpoint, as if someone (the narrator, or you the reader, or some random stranger) is observing this man, and drawing conclusions about the man's thoughts based on his behavior. IOW, the narrator is deliberately staying out of the man's head.

So, I thought the omni narrator knows everything about everyone, and therefore would have no doubt about the info the character does or doesn't know.

For story purposes, the narrator may choose not to share that information, though.
 
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Wilde_at_heart

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What Orianna said - there are plenty of other ways to show deception than internal thoughts, which for me personally is my least-favourite story-telling technique bar none.
 
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