Can horror be as "deep" as other genres?

MrNumbahOne said:

Not sure if this should be moved to the horror subsection but it's something that has gained my attention. I really hope this isn't a newbie question, but do you think that on average horror novels on average are less "deep" (don't know if that's the correct word) than novels of other genres?

It's just that how often do you leave a movie theater from a horror film in awe of what you just watched and makes you think life differently as opposed to other film types? Fear is a base emotion. It doesn't take much to set it off in someone but it's pretty damn powerful, often overriding rationality and even morals. I'm not saying those who write horror are simple-minded or anything, it can be really hard to make someone terrified by words alone, it's just that I feel that the often overwhelming effect that fear produces may leave little room for anything else. I mean, their purpose is to instill fear into readers, so how can you bring up bigger themes?

I really hope this is making sense because God knows that I'm difficult explaining ideas. I ask this because I hope to incorporate horror themes into my sci-fi novel that's heavily centered on themes of morality and redemption.

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Horror movies and horror literature are two separate beasts. The horror literature scene is full of writers every bit as 'deep' as in other genres. Try Ramsey Campbell, Thomas Ligotti, Adam Nevill, Laird Barron for just a sampling.

Sure, many horror movies are simple minded - but so are many movie goers.

williemeikle said:

Horror movies and horror literature are two separate beasts. The horror literature scene is full of writers every bit as 'deep' as in other genres. Try Ramsey Campbell, Thomas Ligotti, Adam Nevill, Laird Barron for just a sampling.

Sure, many horror movies are simple minded - but so are many movie goers.

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I couldn't agree more. Don't judge an entire genre by comparing it to slasher films designed to attract the money of 12 year old boys.

Fear, like sex, may be a 'base' emotion, but because of that, others can be rather easily manipulated by either. So really, once you get into power games and the like it can be as deep or shallow as the author wants.
I find books 'scarier' than most films because too many of the latter these days rely on gore or special effects, which distances me from the scene.

MrNumbahOne said:

Not sure if this should be moved to the horror subsection but it's something that has gained my attention. I really hope this isn't a newbie question, but do you think that on average horror novels on average are less "deep" (don't know if that's the correct word) than novels of other genres?

It's just that how often do you leave a movie theater from a horror film in awe of what you just watched and makes you think life differently as opposed to other film types? Fear is a base emotion. It doesn't take much to set it off in someone but it's pretty damn powerful, often overriding rationality and even morals. I'm not saying those who write horror are simple-minded or anything, it can be really hard to make someone terrified by words alone, it's just that I feel that the often overwhelming effect that fear produces may leave little room for anything else. I mean, their purpose is to instill fear into readers, so how can you bring up bigger themes?

I really hope this is making sense because God knows that I'm difficult explaining ideas. I ask this because I hope to incorporate horror themes into my sci-fi novel that's heavily centered on themes of morality and redemption.

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Stephen King's The Stand is my all time favorite novel. Dracula is an all time classic. Silence of the Lambs, Halloween, and Friday the Thirteenth were powerful movie experiences. Horror can absolutely be every bit as deep and thought provoking as any other genre.

I don't really think it matters how the 'average' horror novel compares. Because what you are really discussing when you bring up average are all the works that are simply mediocre. Personally I don't want to read novels that are just average, that applies to everything I read.

As a writer the greatest compliment a fan can pay me is when they say something I wrote made them feel. Whether they laugh out loud, get angry, or cry I consider it a great accomplishment. Making them feel afraid for the character also takes talent and is what I want when I buy horror.

Don't worry about the qualities of the genre. If you are interested in writing horror concentrate instead on the qualities of a great horror story.

williemeikle said:

Horror movies and horror literature are two separate beasts.

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I wholly agree. Especially in the case of much of your mainstream horror films, the focus is on shock value of the visual kind. This is why most of your horror films of the 80's & 90's featured excessive blood and gore; it was what shocked people the most. Our culture has been somewhat numbed to this approach, however, which has resulted in a focus instead on suspense and (oft times) over-dramatization to create an effect.

Horror literature has to be more dynamic as a whole. Let me rephrase... Good Horror literature has to be more dynamic. You have to capture the reader's attention and needle your way into their brains to find something that will create a universal sense of terror, since people are frightened by different things. It's why Stephen King's written work continues to be so powerful. Even if some of his early written work was a little "blood-splash" (talking about you, Carrie) there are themes there that touch nerves in our subconscious.

I don't read a lot of horror. Even my experience with Stephen King (a good choice, in my opinion) is limited to a handful of novels and then movie adaptations. *hangs head in shame* However, I can say that for "deep" horror you need to explore not just Stephen King, but also H.P. Lovecraft and Joseph Campbell ("Heart of Darkness" especially).

MrNumbahOne said:

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It's just that how often do you leave a movie theater from a horror film in awe of what you just watched and makes you think life differently as opposed to other film types? ....

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Hell, how often have I left a theater thinking that at ANYTHING I've gone to see, particularly genre?

You don't think I left "21 and over," "Transformers," or even "The Hundred Foot Journey" and spent the next year meditating and finding myself, do you?


Horror is a genre. It is defined by certain common elements. that said, you can have as much, or as little, depth as the writer chooses.....but you also can in sci-fi, fantasy, romance, etc. etc. etc.

I will hazard the guess you've never read Frankenstein, as in the old Shelley version, not any of the ripoffs which came later. Or The Stand, or The Green Mile,. which are about morality and redemption as much as they are about monsters. Or I am Legend. Or Lost Boy Lost Girl.

read wider. There's a lot of "pulp" which may fit your idea of it not being a "deep" genre, but there's a lot more out there as well.

Haggis said:

I couldn't agree more. Don't judge an entire genre by comparing it to slasher films designed to attract the money of 12 year old boys.

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Add me to this club too. Books and movies are different anyway, so there's really no comparing the two.

OP, Horror may be meant to intsill fear in the reader, but good horror does this by playing on other emotions instead of just fear. For example, many Horror novels use love as a motivation for the actions of the characters. It can be pure or warped and twisted into something so far removed that on the surface it doesn't resemble love at all. It can be romantic, familial, platonic etc.

Horror manipulates other human needs, wants, and emotions in order to create that sense of fear. It isn't just what is scary or disturbing but why is it that way as well.

I don't think "on average" works for much of anything. Like any genre, some horror books are deep, some are shallow, some are good, and some are bad. It isn't the genre that matters, it's the writer.

It's all about the writing, both in literature and in movies. Me for example, i am going the character and dialogue driven route so you really know the characters and care about the characters, so when someone is murdered, or something of that variety they will care. Some writers go for the action sells belief and that can make the book (or movie for that matter) less deep"

"Pet Semetary" was the most disturbing King novel I've read to date. It explores the full, raw pain of grief and premature death. "Frankenstein" looks at the hubris of man and the temptation to play God. What could be more awful than man trying to play God? What about an unbridled mental illness that makes a person violent ("Misery")?

The "horror" can be supernatural or it can be very realistic. Good horror, in my small opinion, is capturing the essence of fear and showing how human behavior is altered by extreme stress.

Might be a difficult sell, thanks to Hollywood, but that's no reason not to try it!

Jamesaritchie said:

I don't think "on average" works for much of anything. Like any genre, some horror books are deep, some are shallow, some are good, and some are bad. It isn't the genre that matters, it's the writer.

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I am violently in agreement with this.

if you weren't thinking of those as horror I think you're looking at horror in a very narrow prism, thinking only of slasher film and/or "jump-scare" cheap tricks in films like Paranormal Activity.

Go watch John Carpenter's "The Thing," for horror in the sense of utterly trapped claustrophobia, and how people can turn on one another. Watch "Frailty" for a supernatural Southern gothic take on Horror, and "A Simple Plan" to see the horrors ordinary people are capable of as their world spirals out of control. All of those are horror and deeper than you seem to be considering the genre to run.


Lord of the Flies is arguably a horror story, with boys descending into savagery simply because there's nobody to prevent it. Rebecca is as well, building atmosphere into an almost palpable menace in the ghost story that wasn't. The Lottery and The Monkey's Paw are old classics without a slasher anywhere as well, and short, easy reads to find online. And last, go look up Ray Bradbury's "The October Game." That DOES have a slasher, sort of.......but that's hardly the horrific part.

My understanding is horror films can be filmed relatively cheaply (compared to other movies) and thus have an easier time attracting enough of an audience to become profitable.

So it's a little like reality television -- it's a niche where a lower quality product can still provide a living wage to the people creating it. As a result, you get a lot of beginners and people working within punishing budget limitations in the field, and their less-polished product tends to create an impression that the field as a whole doesn't produce great/polished art.

However, it's not the genre that is the problem; it's the economics that fuel the genre. Horror can be amazing, but there are proportionally more film-makers in horror that cannot (yet) create amazing horror movies.

For me the most horrifying stories are reveal the true peril of something that is real taken to the extreme. The speak to the monsters that surround us and the true nature of humanity when faced with them--including the worst and the best. The books that haunt me the most are often horror scenarios like I am Legend (that ending!) and Clay's Ark.

veinglory said:

For me the most horrifying stories are reveal the true peril of something that is real taken to the extreme. The speak to the monsters that surround us and the true nature of humanity when faced with them--including the worst and the best. The books that haunt me the most are often horror scenarios like I am Legend (that ending!) and Clay's Ark.

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Or try Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door.

Horror isn't always about ghosts or three-headed monsters with huge teeth or undead creatures wanting to eat your brain. Sometimes horror puts on a shirt and a tie and goes to work Monday morning. And sometimes that's the most frightening kind of all.

Yes.

Horror is just like any genre. If you're speaking of movies, how many times do you leave the latest action flick or romantic comedy in awe and thinking of your life differently? Plus even horror films aren't all the same. Psychological horror, supernatural horror, and slasher flicks can be quite different. Although you probably do get an even wider variety in horror literature than in horror films, and I've definitely read horror stories that have stuck with me and made me think. Ray Bradbury's short story "The Small Assassin," for instance or Stephen King's "Apt Pupil." In novels, Whitley Streiber's "The Wolfen" has stayed in my head. So have Tananarive Due's "My Soul to Keep" and Elizabeth Massie's "Sineater." And I have to admit I really don't get the idea that the emotional appeal means you can't explore themes. The emotion tends to play on and highlight the themes, and this goes in a lot of literature, not just horror. Most fiction is interested in appealing to emotion, and the themes it explores are what you find lying beneath the things that make you react so strongly. Or something like that. I haven't finished my coffee this morning so I apologize if that doesn't make complete sense.

MrNumbahOne said:

Not sure if this should be moved to the horror subsection but it's something that has gained my attention. I really hope this isn't a newbie question, but do you think that on average horror novels on average are less "deep" (don't know if that's the correct word) than novels of other genres?

It's just that how often do you leave a movie theater from a horror film in awe of what you just watched and makes you think life differently as opposed to other film types? Fear is a base emotion. It doesn't take much to set it off in someone but it's pretty damn powerful, often overriding rationality and even morals. I'm not saying those who write horror are simple-minded or anything, it can be really hard to make someone terrified by words alone, it's just that I feel that the often overwhelming effect that fear produces may leave little room for anything else. I mean, their purpose is to instill fear into readers, so how can you bring up bigger themes?

I really hope this is making sense because God knows that I'm difficult explaining ideas. I ask this because I hope to incorporate horror themes into my sci-fi novel that's heavily centered on themes of morality and redemption.

Click to expand...

Fear is the road on which your story rides. How you write it determines it's direction and heft.

Speaking from personal experience now, if one find one's novel lacking depth, it's because she wrote it that way.

I say, write what you want to write, how you want to write it. The only limits a story has are those an author gives it.

frankenstein

I'm glad you brought this up and am enjoying some of the responses here. I'm working on a SF/F/H tome and the horror is more psychological in nature, about our deep seated fears (not serial killer stuff either) that suddenly become a reality, and control issues lots of control issues, but not slasher type horror.

I think this is one of my pet peeves with a lot of scifi/fantasy I've seen in the past 30 years, with the exception of one or two movies like Alien for instance, most of the scifi/fantasy movies that employ horror are of the slasher variety... boring.

LOTLOF said:

As a writer the greatest compliment a fan can pay me is when they say something I wrote made them feel. Whether they laugh out loud, get angry, or cry I consider it a great accomplishment. Making them feel afraid for the character also takes talent and is what I want when I buy horror.

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This^^^ I want to turn my reader inside out leave them sweating and begging for more! The same is true with my artwork, I tend to evoke a lot of emotional response from the public when they see my work in person.