Why is it so hard for me to come up with an unique/original idea for a story?

xYinxx said:

All my stories draw influences from other source material. That's not the problem...I wrote something that was 15K in and it turns out it was a "carbon copy" of this manga series. :/

Now, I'm trying to come up with something unique and fresh. The genre is gonna be fantasy. I was thinking about magic-wielding thieves (but that's like Mistborn) and everything, but even that's not original.

Why is it so easy for other writers to come up with original ideas for stories? I struggle to do so.

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But you can have a story with magic-wielding thieves that is nothing like Mistborn in the nature of the magic, the world building, the nature of the conflict, or the actual personalities of the characters involved.

Easy? I don't know that it's easy for most writers, exactly. While ideas are relatively simple to come up with, pinning them down into something logical and internally consistent is another matter entirely. I tend to get stuck on the logical things in a story myself, the connecting the dots.

If you think all your ideas are unoriginal, it may be that you're setting the bar too high for yourself in terms of originality. What if Tolkien had said, "Oh, I can't have a dragon in this story, because dragons are so common in fairy tales already, and my dwarves are straight out of Norse mythology"?

xYinxx said:

Why is it so easy for other writers to come up with original ideas for stories? I struggle to do so.

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Because they don't try to be original.

Take Harry Potter for example. It's essentially a boarding school novel but the element Rowling changes is that it happens to be for witches and wizards. Twilight is about as unoriginal as they come. Fifty Shades of Grey is openly inspired by Twilight.

Okay, these may not be the most well-written novels but they are certainly some of the most popular, and so in one sense, they are successful.

Even in the greatest classic literature. Anna Karenina is about a woman who has an affair and pays the price; Hamlet is about a man whose father tasks him with killing the uncle (a standard revenge tragedy plot in those days); Moby Dick is about a guy obsessed with killing and defeating a whale.

What makes a book original is your mind. If we were all given the plot 'A man falls in love with a woman but they cannot be together', each story would be different.

So start off with the sort of trope that interests you, a perfectly cliche one, even if you think it's overdone. Then as you write and evolve your novel, it will become original simply by following the natural path of your imagination.

xYinxx said:

Thanks! I actually came up with some things yesterday, though now I'm stuck on how to connect the protagonist with the thieving organization. xD

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What does he have that's worth stealing? Great way to meet a thief. Alternatively, maybe they catch him in the act, cuz he's an amateur, not a guild member... or maybe he halts a theft-in-progress and is told to mind his own damn business.

How things happen derives from the world around the event. How did your thieves come into existence? the reason is probably fundamental to your world, and much else also derives from it.

Oh! I love Brain-storming!
*adjusts thinking cap and eye-patch and jumps in*

Lillith1991 said:

Say there's a princess to be rescued and someone is writing a fairytale, normal conventions say our knight is male, and romance with happen between the princess and the knight after she's saved. But what if the princess isn't straight, or the Knight isn't? What if our brave knight is actually a woman and they fall in love anyway? Maybe the knight is a vampire?

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For that matter, why not all of the above? The princess isn't straight, but no one knows. The Knight is actually a woman, but no one knows, regardless of her fame. Because she's always portraying a man, she never thought about her orientation, until she met the princess. She attracted to her, which is great, except the princess still thinks she's a man, and therefore has no interest. Throw in something like the vampire line for spice (also why the Knight can't just take off her armor and prove to the princess that she's got the right equipment; the full armor protects her from sunlight.)

snafu1056 said:

"Thief" could cover lots of lays--pickpockets, house thieves, shoplifters, bank robbers, highwaymen, etc. Making your thieves more specialized might open up some new doors idea-wise. How does the underworld work in your world? You might want to develop that idea.

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A great show to watch for insight on this and to see some ideas in action is the television series "Leverage" staring Timothy Hutton. Show ran for 5 seasons and really helps drive this notion home.

Reziac said:

What does he have that's worth stealing? Great way to meet a thief. Alternatively, maybe they catch him in the act, cuz he's an amateur, not a guild member... or maybe he halts a theft-in-progress and is told to mind his own damn business.

How things happen derives from the world around the event. How did your thieves come into existence? the reason is probably fundamental to your world, and much else also derives from it.

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Any time you have a group or guild of major importance, they are going to have origins, same as any character. The character might have ties to something in the guild's past. These suggestions from Reziac are also solid.

Maybe the character has some romanticized version of what being one of these thieves is like, so she tries to be a good enough thief herself to attract their attention so they'll offer her a place among them... only to discover that the true ambitions of the guild are far more sinister (or if you like villains as the MC, far more noble) than she imagined and she has to figure out how to proceed, especially since the guild has revealed itself and likes to keep a tight leash on people that know their secrets.

Another idea could revolve around the thieves and their magic abilities...abilities that the character (or someone that hires her) wants to steal from the thieves for their own use.

Tyler Silvaris said:

Another idea could revolve around the thieves and their magic abilities...abilities that the character (or someone that hires her) wants to steal from the thieves for their own use.

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Oho, that's interesting... can magic be stolen? is the guild initiation "steal someone's magic"?? Do non-thieves have magic, and is it worth stealing? how do you protect it? Does it physically harm someone to have their magic stolen? can you hurt yourself with stolen magic?

Brainstorming is really just asking whatever question comes into your head.

Originality. NO! Relative originality? ABSOLUTELY. (Martian Chronicles, etc.)

There are a number of novels with relatively original plots. How do the authors do it? Probably a natural knack mixed in with some luck.

Sure. Originality can be a plus. It can make a novel the book to read, but it isn't essential. 99% of all writers just rehash the same ol' same ol' and that works fine.

So relax and just focus on the other stuff: good, believable characters; settings; t&a; etc. Give the public that and they'll buy your books and send fan mail.

Very few stories are totally original, and complete originality isn't necessarily something to strive for. A lot of plot elements and tropes show up a lot because they work.

Many stories have similarities. What makes them unique are the characters and details. Sometimes I'll have a WIP that I realize is very similar to another story, and I use that as inspiration to figure out how my story handles the ideas differently. Sometimes I'll have tweak the details a bit so that my story does something different. It can be a fun challenge.

Only once have I actually felt like something was too close, though. When I was writing fanfic for a particular fandom, a popular writer posted a fic that coincidentally had a scene that was very similar to a scene in a WIP of mine. I could have kept mine, but since a fandom can be is a smaller community, I didn't want the similarity between our stories to be that strong. So I took my scene out. But that was a special circumstance, and originality wasn't really the big concern.

Tyler Silvaris said:

For that matter, why not all of the above? The princess isn't straight, but no one knows. The Knight is actually a woman, but no one knows, regardless of her fame. Because she's always portraying a man, she never thought about her orientation, until she met the princess. She attracted to her, which is great, except the princess still thinks she's a man, and therefore has no interest. Throw in something like the vampire line for spice (also why the Knight can't just take off her armor and prove to the princess that she's got the right equipment; the full armor protects her from sunlight.)

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Because that's cliché, or the "hidden female" thing is at least. And while I don't mind normal tropes or even cliché ones, that cliché takes things too far into triteness land. There's no reason to play the "hidden female" card, unless women aren't equal to men in the stories society. Me, I prefer something more egalitarian. Take away the "hidden female" bit and the idea is extremely servicable and doesn't feel as forced in my opinion.

Lillith1991 said:

Because that's cliché, or the "hidden female" thing is at least. And while I don't mind normal tropes or even cliché ones, that cliché takes things too far into triteness land.

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This. It's much more interesting if the tropes are subverted front and center.

eqb said:

This. It's much more interesting if the tropes are subverted front and center.

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Exactly. And since we want to make the story interesting, keeping away from certain clichés in concert with each other is normally best. I love tropes, even the most cliché tropes can be done awesomely. But combine them in a certain way and I'm going to roll my eyes so far back into my head I will literally be able to see my brain matter, and the female knight who posses as a man and happens to be a Lesbian is one such combinations of cliché/tropes. I see that in a story it's a book throwing offense to me.

Reziac said:

Oho, that's interesting... can magic be stolen? is the guild initiation "steal someone's magic"?? Do non-thieves have magic, and is it worth stealing? how do you protect it? Does it physically harm someone to have their magic stolen? can you hurt yourself with stolen magic?

Brainstorming is really just asking whatever question comes into your head.

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That depends on how you choose to run magic in the world of the story. Perhaps it comes from some sort of empowered athame or other item that must be closely guarded and protected? I ran with an idea once of thieves that had literally found a way to pull the magic energy out of wizards to use for themselves, sort of like a psychic vampirism. It was inspired by the magic system used in Final Fantasy VIII.

Lillith1991 said:

Because that's cliché, or the "hidden female" thing is at least. And while I don't mind normal tropes or even cliché ones, that cliché takes things too far into triteness land.

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The Bone Doll's Twin leaps to mind... I loved it until we got to the hidden female thing, then I stopped believing in it.

Reziac said:

The Bone Doll's Twin leaps to mind... I loved it until we got to the hidden female thing, then I stopped believing in it.

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Well, scratch that off my to read list. It sounded so good too, but I despise that trope in 99% of cases. And yea, it really isn't all that believable to be truthful. Mostly it reads like, "Women are equal to men, but only if they conceal themselves as men. Because didn't you know the Medievel period was 1000x more sexist than now, and women-folk were never allowed to do anything fun."

Can you say boring?

Reziac said:

Notions that come to mind:

-- the value of something depends on how many times it's been stolen
-- once something has been stolen, the original owner can no longer own it even if it's recovered, but they can sell it to someone else
-- your personal worth depends on how much has been stolen from you (rather than how much you've stolen) but your status depends on how much you can prevent from being stolen from you (so there's a balance and people don't just toss stuff out to be stolen by any passerby)

Stuff like that. Just throwing out whatever nonsense comes into my head. If you like any of it, feel free to steal it.



Hmm. You're right...

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It needs a big, rich, city, with major trade connections, so the thieves have someplace to hide, enough stuff for people to own in the first place, and connections to either sell the stuff in the city without it being noticed, or get it on a fast caravan out of town.

People rich enough to have stuff worth stealing, and enough wealth and power to protect it. The civic leaders, the major merchants, the old traditional families, which probably started as merchants or civic leaders. Which in turn attracts ambitious thieves, willing to use luck and skill to go after the big score. Which brings guards and mercenaries and everyone with a plan to ensure security.
And, just in case the security doesn't work, fences and other people are waiting to buy and sell dodgy goods.
The rest of the population is much like everywhere else, support services for that economy.

Lillith1991 said:

Well, scratch that off my to read list. It sounded so good too, but I despise that trope in 99% of cases. And yea, it really isn't all that believable to be truthful. Mostly it reads like, "Women are equal to men, but only if they conceal themselves as men. Because didn't you know the Medievel period was 1000x more sexist than now, and women-folk were never allowed to do anything fun."

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This was "we had to hide the future queen in a boy's seeming so she wouldn't get killed by $EvilForces". And it was wonderful til he transformed to she (which itself I didn't have a problem with, the concept was fine). And then it seemed like the character just wasn't there any more, like she was now Magic Warrior With No Antecedent instead of the real person I'd enjoyed so much time with.

xYinxx said:

Thanks! I actually came up with some things yesterday, though now I'm stuck on how to connect the protagonist with the thieving organization. xD

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Again, just think of a list of possibles, even if they sound obvious or like they might not work.

The two categories are personal reasons:

- He could be a former member
- Might be related to a member
- Friends with a member
- Accidentally saw something he shouldn't have

Or professional reasons:
- Previously worked with/for a member/the boss
- The protag is a journalist/academic/law enforcer with a speciality/interest in this type of organisation

For me, the best fantasy novels ground themselves in a reality similar to our own, hence why dystopian novels are popular- because we can imagine it happening to our world. So at first when you're coming up with these links and the practicalities of the world, think about if it was an ordinary organisation. For example, in Doctor Who the other night, the Doctor and Clara are tasked with robbing a bank. Although the bank is in some respects a fantasy bank, it on the whole operates in the way a bank normally operates (tight security and identification processes, holds precious things, etc.). Don't start off the bat thinking of some complex fantasy way in which they could be involved; start with the obvious.

The closer the link the protagonist has with the organisation, the higher the stake. Though I've listed a friend/family member as being a potential link, it's a second degree of separation. Make that a friend of a friend and it's even further away.

I imagine if someone knew of a criminal organisation, most people would want to stay away from it. You need some believable reason why your protagonist wouldn't.

As for the question of whether thieving has a different connotation in their world than it does in the real world, break down the concept of thieving and see if that allows for a twist. Personally I think it would have to involve some kind of rebellion against the norm, otherwise it's not really theiving if it's done with consent. You can have a world rife with thieves but if everybody keeps stealing off each other, how do they keep their economy going as no one would need to buy any new things? It would also be a bit time consuming.

The thieves could be stealing things that unbeknown to the owner are bad but again, I would have thought that thieves will always operate on profit- whether it's their personal profit or that of their superior.

An easy way to generate ideas is to think of something, then think of its opposite, and how both could go wrong. The obvious question for a thief is "What if you're caught?"

Jamesaritchie said:

Characters, not plot are where most new writers flunk the originality test, Create good, original characters that readers really want to spend time with, and few care much at all about an unoriginal plot.

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Lady Ice said:

...Don't start off the bat thinking of some complex fantasy way in which they could be involved; start with the obvious.... The closer the link the protagonist has with the organisation, the higher the stake.

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I think both Jamesaritchie and Lady Ice are also pointing out that you need to start giving some consideration to your characters themselves. I find that my characters will often drive the unique angles of plot more so than if I decided to sit down and try to hammer out an "original" plot that magically didn't look anything like anything else (good luck with that). But, if you spend a little time starting to get into your protagonist's head, find out what her motivations are, what's her backstory, how does she sound and react to things...then you're going to start coming up with interesting details that might enhance your magical system, connect the dots on how she interacts with the thieving organization, etc. For example, are we talking about a woman hardened by life on the streets, who made her way through life through the guild of thieves (could then take it several ways - they are her family, or they are the last people she ever wants to see again once she's turned her back on things). Or is she a little Polly sunshine who's never experienced the darker side of things until she finds out that her father was the master of the guild of thieves and she's inherited the guild? (I'm just making this up at random, but maybe you get my point).

How you see your characters and how you want them to live, breathe, and grow over the course of the story will help you figure out unique plot points to get them there.

Also, maybe hit up some of your friends or acquaintances who like to read these things and they may nail you with a question that starts a whole original line of thought. I was discussing one of my ideas with a work colleague and he gave me this outlandish "wouldn't it be cool if" idea that I scoffed at at the time. Only later, the question kept coming back to me and before I knew it, this really random, but bizarre idea for a new novel (using seemingly "been there done that" things) was in my head. But again, it worked because I started focusing on the characters.

So, ending my usual ramble with characters - make them memorable and I don't care if your plot is similarish to Joe Schmoe. Because I'll want to know how YOUR characters react and make it through to the end.

Jamesaritchie said:

Characters, not plot are where most new writers flunk the originality test, Create good, original characters that readers really want to spend time with, and few care much at all about an unoriginal plot.

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True! It's all about individual reactions.

Bop ten Real People[SUP]TM[/SUP] on the noggin (ten of the same old plot), and you'll get ten different reactions (ten original stories). How do YOUR characters react??

Yeah, I definitely agree that characters are vital. I remember that you used Mistborn as an example. I've forgotten many of the details of the plot, but characters like Vin, Kelsier, Elend, and Sazed have stuck with me (as well as some of the others).

And that's the case for just about any book I read. Unless I've read the book countless times, I won't remember much beyond the basic plot. Plots are important, but you want characters that people will love and remember. As others have said, every well-drawn character will react to a situation in his or her own unique way.

Doctor Who and Leverage in the same thread? This thread is brought to you by thepicpic's DVD shelf...

'Is it original?' is a question I try not to worry about. Like 'how does this end?', 'do you even have a plan?' or 'shouldn't you have a job?'. I figure so long as my characters feel right and I don't force the plot, it'll all work out. Maybe.

I don't want to break up what seems like a promising brainstorm, but I just wanted to leave a thought about process here, for you to take as you will.

One reason it's hard to come up with original ideas is that originality, in so far as it exists at all, is exploratory. It is very hard to sit around in a room, even with other people, and come up with something that everyone likes and that doesn't make someone think "Oh, that's just like this!" We're hard-wired that way, to build connections and see patterns.

The opposite extreme is to put a character in a room instead, and just see what happens. It will be a struggle, but this is writing. Find things. See what happens. What happens usually tends to be "original" because it arises from the patterns in the story-world.

There are many happily grey areas somewhere in-between. Personally, I'm a little more on the exploratory side, but I've also worked in some decent brainstorms. I get hesitant about saying "I want it to be fantasy!" right off the top because what is fantasy, exactly? Having a core objective to aim for is fine, but too stringent an objective will tend to create more cliché, because it's easy to default back to the tropes we understand fantasy to be.

Figure out who you are, find a place to stand, and then reach out and see what happens and how it reacts to the tropes you have at your disposal/preference.

Best of luck!

Jamesaritchie said:

Characters, not plot are where most new writers flunk the originality test, Create good, original characters that readers really want to spend time with, and few care much at all about an unoriginal plot.

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To me, any story is about the characters. All the other things that I hammer out with an obsession sometimes reminiscent of Tolkein (cultural history and customs, nature of languages, racial interactions, etc.) I do so that I know who my characters are and where they come from. The story behind each character is what weaves together to create the foundation of the story.

It's what makes the story grab ahold of the imagination and not let go for fear that it will mix the next chapter.