Question about semicolon use in lists

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
It's my understanding that you use semicolons to separate elements in a list when the items in said list contain commas.

So you use semicolons for a list like this one:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland, Salem and Eugene in Oregon; and Syracuse, New York and Newark on the East coast.

But what if some of the elements in the list contain commas and some don't? Say:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland and Eugene in Oregon, and Syracuse in New York.

Is it correct to use semicolons (as I have done) only to separate list elements that contain commas, or would I use semicolons for every element in the list?

I'm not finding much help with this on the web.
 

Deleted member 42

It's a style sheet issue. I would only use semicolons if they follow an independent clause, list or not.
 

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
9,239
Reaction score
2,316
Location
Oregon, USA
The style I'm most familiar with only requires one internal comma in the series to use semicolons as separators.

On the wall hung firearms of the last three centuries: single-shot handguns and long guns; repeating revolvers, lever-actions, and bolt-actions; and enough semiautomatics to kick off World War III.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I was asking about the second semicolon rule in this list (the between items on a list that already involves commas), not the first rule (two independent clauses rule).

Use semi-colons between items in a list that already involve commas.

  • I have lived in Chicago, Illinois; Kansas City, Missouri; and Omaha, Nebraska.
  • The sweaters I bought today were purple, blue, and green; yellow, white, and red; and pink, black, and grey.
What it doesn't make clear is if some of the elements in the list contain commas and some don't, like say:

The sweaters I bought today were purple, blue, and green; yellow; and pink.

or would it be:

The sweaters I bought today were purple, blue, and green; yellow, and pink.
 
Last edited:

rugcat

Lost in the Fog
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
16,339
Reaction score
4,110
Location
East O' The Sun & West O' The Moon
Website
www.jlevitt.com
It's my understanding that you use semicolons to separate elements in a list when the items in said list contain commas.

So you use semicolons for a list like this one:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland, Salem and Eugene in Oregon; and Syracuse, New York and Newark on the East coast.

But what if some of the elements in the list contain commas and some don't? Say:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland and Eugene in Oregon, and Syracuse in New York.

Is it correct to use semicolons (as I have done) only to separate list elements that contain commas, or would I use semicolons for every element in the list?

I'm not finding much help with this on the web.
That's an interesting question. I tend to think that in these two examples it would be preferable to use another semicolon in the second as well as the first. But really, I'm not any more sure than you are. What we need here is a true grammar maven.
 

MookyMcD

I go to eleven
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
236
Location
Boise, ID
Website
michaeljmcdonagh.wordpress.com
The "rule" is to use the semicolon in a series including internal commas "to avoid confusion." In other words, it's not a concrete rule. In your case (assuming I'm worrying only about punctuating that exact series), I think it helps. I write around serial semicolons more often than not, but I don't think it's jarring or confusing in your example, and commas would be a little less clear.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I can't see any reason not to list all of these items cited in your examples as a straightforward sequence, with commas.

caw

I'm just following the stated rule for lists where there are grouped elements that contain commas, as stated on purdue owl and other grammar sites.

Besides,

The sweaters I bought today were purple, blue, and green; yellow, white, and red; and pink, black, and grey.

makes it clear which colors are grouped on which sweaters, while the following does not.

The sweaters I bought today were purple, blue, and green, yellow, white, and red, and pink, black, and grey.

I'm assuming the rule exists to avoid this kind of confusion, but I'm just not sure if it's expected when some of the groups in a list have commas and some don't. Writing around in the problem in my situation would entail creating several very short, choppy sentences in a row. I didn't want to post the actual sentence from my own work here, as it's not SYW, and an isolated sentence without context isn't terribly meaningful, but it definitely needs the semicolons (for clarity) to separate two of the list elements but not the rest. It reads all right the way I've got it, but I'm just not sure if it's required to use semicolons between all elements in a list if you use them between one.

Thanks, everyone for their thoughts on this, though. It appears that it is indeed one of those strangely obscure situations in punctuation rules :)
 
Last edited:

guttersquid

I agree with Roxxsmom.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
1,324
Reaction score
229
Location
California, U.S.A.
Use the semicolon at the end for the final item(s). Think of it as a super-Oxford comma, but whereas some like to leave out an Oxford comma, don't leave out the final semicolon.

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland and Eugene in Oregon; and Syracuse in New York.

^^^ This is correct.
 

MookyMcD

I go to eleven
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
236
Location
Boise, ID
Website
michaeljmcdonagh.wordpress.com
Use the semicolon at the end for the final item(s). Think of it as a super-Oxford comma, but whereas some like to leave out an Oxford comma, don't leave out the final semicolon.

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland and Eugene in Oregon; and Syracuse in New York.

^^^ This is correct.

My proposed solution to the bold part: Reeducation Camps. ;)
 

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
9,239
Reaction score
2,316
Location
Oregon, USA
Because if they are always used, the absence of the comma has a specific meaning.

It means the author forgot and should get another crank on the rack, more :whip: lashes, and more bamboo under the fingernails :)ty: for that one, KN). :D
 

Russell Secord

nearly perfect
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
517
Reaction score
53
Location
a secure undisclosed location
The Oxford comma is necessary because there are times when it is mandatory to avoid ambiguity. If you're going to use it part of the time, without telling anyone why, it's silly not to use it all the time.

Ditto for the semicolon. If one phrase needs it, they all need it.

I'm fully aware of Emerson's quote about "foolish inconsistency." This isn't foolish.
 

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
455
Age
66
Location
Northern Virginia
Word. There are actually people who like oxford commas when they're not needed for clarity?

;)

'Tis true 'tis pity, and pity 'tis, 'tis required by the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual in all cases of three or more items in a list. Which makes it a requirement for my day job.
:))
 

aus10phile

committed plantser
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,099
Reaction score
180
Location
Flyover country
It's fine to use semicolons in a list the way you're using them, and yes, you should use a semicolon before the last item for consistency (rather than a comma).

Regarding the Oxford/serial comma... it depends on which style guide you're using. Chicago style says yes. AP style says no. We can debate forever about which way we prefer, but ultimately it comes down to the style of the publication/publisher.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
It's my understanding that you use semicolons to separate elements in a list when the items in said list contain commas.

So you use semicolons for a list like this one:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland, Salem and Eugene in Oregon; and Syracuse, New York and Newark on the East coast.

But what if some of the elements in the list contain commas and some don't? Say:

I've flown to Sacramento, San Francisco and LA in California; Portland and Eugene in Oregon, and Syracuse in New York.

Is it correct to use semicolons (as I have done) only to separate list elements that contain commas, or would I use semicolons for every element in the list?

I'm not finding much help with this on the web.

Be consistent. If you start out using semi-colons, finish it with semi-colons.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
The Oxford comma is necessary because there are times when it is mandatory to avoid ambiguity. If you're going to use it part of the time, without telling anyone why, it's silly not to use it all the time.

I thought they only used them when necessary to avoid ambuguiity in the UK and also as per some in-house styles. I'd never run across anyone who thought avoiding their use was a big deal before, just a matter of personal style or preference.

Ditto for the semicolon. If one phrase needs it, they all need it.

.

Isn't deciding which phrases need their use part of voice and style? I rarely use semicolons myself, unless I think one short stand alone sentence follows logically and naturally from another and is closely enough linked to be a continuation of the same thought. I keep two short, sequential sentences as separate, stand-alone sentences when I'm going for a punchier feel or want to break up the pattern or flow of a paragraph. Some of my character povs are more inclined to shorter, punchier sentences than others, though.

Why is that silly?

Or are you talking about non-fiction writing? There, I'd agree that a consistent voice and style usually works best throughout an entire piece. But even there, maybe some sentences should be punchier than others.
 
Last edited:

MookyMcD

I go to eleven
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
236
Location
Boise, ID
Website
michaeljmcdonagh.wordpress.com
I think Russell was commenting on serial semicolons, so if you have a single clause in a series with the commas that require you to use the serial semicolon, you still need to use it on all other items in the list (but only that particular list).
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Oh, sorry, Russell. Thought you meant the ones that link independent clauses. See, I can't even keep my own questions straight :tongue

If that's the way it's supposed to be done, it's fine by me. It just looks odd to have them separating the list elements that are clear with just commas separating them.
 
Last edited:

pellshek

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
56
Reaction score
7
I have a question on semicolons & lists.

Here's my problem sentence, punctuated three ways (commas only, semicolons only, mix of two):

No. 1: They both knew what he was telling her with that kiss, what the film of sweat meant, and the shallow breaths.

No. 2: They both knew what he was telling her with that kiss; what the film of sweat meant; and the shallow breaths.

No. 3: They both knew what he was telling her with that kiss; what the film of sweat meant, and the shallow breaths.

.........

No. 1: The commas feel too weak, and meaning unclear.
No. 2: Final semicolon feels unnecessary to achieve clarity. Final semicolon breaks the flow.
No. 3: This one sounds best to my ear, I think it makes the meaning ping. But looking at the rules, I think it may be ungrammatical. I'm not sure it's even a "list" because it only contains 2 items.

Really not sure. What do you think?