Comma Usage or Overusage

JohnnyGottaKeyboard · Oct 1, 2014

[FONT=CG Times,Times New Roman] But by then, the old man was ambling toward the door.

Not sure if that's enough to get my question answered, but I'm curious: Is the comma needed? It strikes me as unnecessary.
[/FONT]

Night_Writer · Oct 1, 2014

It strikes me as unnecessary, too.

Ken · Oct 1, 2014

Would probably just skirt the issue by attaching this sentence to the preceding one and sticking the comma between 'em.

She was going to ask him to dance, but by then the old man was ambling toward the door.

pellshek · Oct 1, 2014

This may help:

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/03/

I could be wrong, but from that it seems to me you have an introductory phrase here that's fewer than 5 words long, and so you don't need the comma. That's kinda what my ear's telling me too.

Maryn · Oct 1, 2014

No comma. You do not have an dependent clause within the introductory element, just a short phrase without a subject-verb pairing, so in general you don't need a comma unless clarity demands one.

Comma, because they contain a dependent clause:
But by the time she'd finished feeding the kids, the old man was ambling toward the door.
But by Jeff's realization the guy needed his help, the old man was ambling toward the door.
When the clock struck one, the old man was ambling toward the door.

Maryn, whose edits caught a lot of these goofs

Jamesaritchie · Oct 1, 2014

No, that comma is not needed.

Chase · Oct 1, 2014

I agree with all saying the comma isn't necessary. However, it is correct:

Comma Rule Number 2: A comma is necessary to separate a long introductory element before a main clause. Rule 2 holds true for both simple and complex constructions:
Even though ignorant of our culture, we must always be kind to strangers. (Simple)
Since Constance is new to our company, all of us should strive to help her. (Complex)

It’s always correct to set off any introductory element with a comma, but a more modern lean toward fewer commas in novels has made the practice optional for shorter elements. Either is acceptable:
Later, you can join us for dessert.
Later you can join us for dessert.

I've also heard Pellshek's guideline; except, it was five syllables before the length of the introductory element warranted a comma.

Good advice all around.

Jamesaritchie · Oct 1, 2014

Chase said:
I agree with all saying the comma isn't necessary. However, it is correct:

Comma Rule Number 2: A comma is necessary to separate a long introductory element before a main clause. Rule 2 holds true for both simple and complex constructions:
Even though ignorant of our culture, we must always be kind to strangers. (Simple)
Since Constance is new to our company, all of us should strive to help her. (Complex)

It’s always correct to set off any introductory element with a comma, but a more modern lean toward fewer commas in novels has made the practice optional for shorter elements. Either is acceptable:
Later, you can join us for dessert.
Later you can join us for dessert.

I've also heard Pellshek's guideline; except, it was five syllables before the length of the introductory element warranted a comma.

Good advice all around.

The sentence does not use a long introductory clause.

Chase · Oct 1, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
The sentence does not use a long introductory clause.

Quite right, James. What's your point?

An introductory element doesn't have to be a clause for a comma to be correct. It can be a short phrase or even one word. My point is a comma after a short introductory word or phrase is optional, but it's not incorrect.

Dave Williams · Oct 1, 2014

Any time a comma can prevent confusion, there should be a comma there.

Apparently commas are unclean in journalism school now; for the last few years I've seen way too many news stories where I had to back up and parse a sentence to figure out who did what to whom.

If your editor is upset by too many commas you can deal with it then.

Now, semicolons... you can start a blood feud between the various One True English fanatics on the proper use of the semicolon, or if they should be allowed at all...

WriterBN · Oct 2, 2014

Dave Williams said:
Apparently commas are unclean in journalism school now; for the last few years I've seen way too many news stories where I had to back up and parse a sentence to figure out who did what to whom.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one.

To the OP: I'd actually add a second comma:

But, by then, the old man was ambling toward the door.

Or leave them both out. One comma doesn't work for me.

Comma Usage or Overusage

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

Who let this guy in...?

Night_Writer

It's all symbolic.

Ken

pellshek

Maryn

Baaa!

Jamesaritchie

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Jamesaritchie

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Dave Williams

Zappa isn't frank!

WriterBN