• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Light Sword Publishing / LSP Digital, LLC

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
Many distributors want a press to have a certain number of book available before taking them on. However they can still have the process in place and explain their status clearly to the first authors to come on board.

That said, most small presses will never get mainstream distribution because their business model does not allow for the necessary discount and returns. It behooves the cautious author not to assume the best in the early stages.

See also: http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/03/victoria-strauss-writers-conferences.html
 
Last edited:

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
It is simply true! You have to sell a certain amount of books before they hit large chains nation wide. If you are talking about only regional, then no. For the record One of the first Authors that signed up with Light Sword her book can be found in the Walden's book chain. Samhain is a niche small press.

I would like to say congratulation to Ann Cripin for getting your books on the shelf. That is an honor. Congrats. I am not hear to stir up trouble and I am sorry if I seem like I have. I just have a problem when everyone makes an assumption about small businesses with out actually contacting the company and asking questions. Everyone likes to go on rumor.

It is true about the certain number of books. My book is on the book shelf too but only in one Barnes and Noble and I put it there. Not my publishing company. I talked to the Barnes and Noble. I booked my own signing, and I am the one that has sold 160 copies of my book. I have also written 3 books and I attend school. I also take care of my two loving children. I also work as a publicist for authors. I do not have any books with Light Sword Publishing nor do I have any ties to them. I was just giving you the information I received when I talked to their marking rep, Shannon Wade.

It is a big deal to get into a Book conference for free. It is hard. It normally cost 203 dollars to attend. To get in 3+ authors plus the CEO into a literary conference for FREE and have news coverage and they get to meet some very important people. That is an accomplishment. So please do not down play some one's efforts. They are working out the gliches. Mistakes happen with all new companies and Light Sword is no different. They are learning from them and moving on. I just do not feel the need to bash them. I do not see why any NEW company that is learning has to be bashed.

Simply put Authors have to market their wares. You have to put your self out there. I know that from experience. You are all great people and you all have different levels of experiences. Which is what makes this place a great way to learn things. Thanks again for allowing me to lend my experiences.

Best of luck to all of you
Althy
 
Last edited:

Saundra Julian

A work in progress
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
664
Location
Atlanta, GA
May I ask who your publisher was/is? And how about telling us about your experience and credentials for being a publicist.
 

bethany

:)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
9,013
Reaction score
3,057
Location
Room two-hundred-something on the first floor
Website
www.bethanygriffin.com
It is simply true! You have to sell a certain amount of books before they hit large chains nation wide.

Who told you this?

I attended a session with a buyer and a sales rep at a RWA conference. It was very interesting, and no mention of having to sell a certain number of books. New authors get on the shelves all the time. Otherwise the only best sellers would be King and Koontz and um, Dan Brown?
 
Last edited:

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
163
No, you don't have to sell a certain number of books before a particular book hits shelves in major bookstores.

it's simply not true. The thing that puts books on storeshelves is a distributor. Commercial publishers have distribution and sell the books before they are even printed.

In fact pre-orders is partially what mandates the size of a print run.

The first major benchmark of viability as a publisher is the acquisition of distribution.

This goes for debut novels, too.

Anne Crispin is the author several books all published by main stream publishers. When she was a debut novelist her books were on shelves before they were available for anyone to buy anywhere.

Regards,
Scott
 

bethany

:)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
9,013
Reaction score
3,057
Location
Room two-hundred-something on the first floor
Website
www.bethanygriffin.com
There's a really good article by Anna Genoese formerly of Tor that explains what happens after a book gets bought (and goes through the process of getting said book to shelves and getting big chains to order it). I won't quote from the article since I see she is now charging for it on her website, but it is very interesting and probably worth the 3.50 I see she is charging. You might want to check it out.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
Samhain is indeed a niche small press, with books available at a Borders store near you--that was my point to show I was comparing oranges to oranges. And their books, like those of other presses, are routinely ordered by Borders upon release without having to make a certain number of sales.
 

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
As a free lance publicist I try to help set up book signings, get books reviewed. I also try to get the authors on talk shows, talk radio and interviews with magazines. I also bring books to book stores and talk to their district manager or CRMs. To try to get the stores to buy their books. As far as my experiences go I am still learning. I have worked with the writing world for a long time. I am still learning the ins and outs of publishing companies. Each one is a little different. I know that Barnes and Noble will not buy your book unless it is returnable. I also know that local bookstores are more likely to give a new local author a chance. I was also told by many different people that books must sale a certain amount before they hit shelves most through my business class. We were studying different businesses and we were able to choose what venue we wanted to study. Since I am a writer I wanted to learn about publishing industry. This was 7 years ago so maybe things have changed.
My husband builds websites and we have our own server. He will build the Authors Websites and he also designs bookmarks, posters, fliers, and many other promotional ideas. Light Sword Publishing has only been in business for 1 year. So yeah they may not have everything that a publishing company that has been around longer has. Maybe that is in their mission statement because they do not have enough money at this time to do what the really would like to do with their authors. Simply I do not know. I asked questions and they answered them. I do know that their distributors are Ingrams and Baker and Taylor. I do know that they have only two marketing reps and 28 authors. I do know that no one has to pay to have their story published with them. I also know that they send the author a promotional package along with a set number of books all of which they do not have to pay for. I am not associated in anyway with them. But, I did take it upon myself to contact THEM and ask questions. They answered them. I do not know them personally so therefore I can not call them a lier. Yes their mission statement is questionable. What I found out is that Linda had a few college students design her website and she is trying to correct some of their mistakes on the website. Right now she is busy getting books to printer and in Stores.

So she has put off her website at the moment. At least that is what I was told. Everything is done through steps. She is in her first year and with a small staff. So like what others have stated wait 5 to 7 years and see where they are. Small presses do disappear.

A lot of authors I work with love what I do for them. I have not had a complaint yet. Since I work independantly. I do not work for any company or for anyone except for those authors that have asked for my help. Most of them are authors I have met at conventions.

I did not say anything bad about Ann Crispin. I praised her for all of her and her publishers hard work. I have never read any of her books so I can not say anything about her works or her publisher nor would I want to. Authors work hard with what they put out. I am sure she is an excellent writer and I would love to look up her work. There is nothing that feels as good as walking into a book store and seeing your book on the shelf. I do not down play that. Nor would I ever want to.

Much success to all of you.
Athey
 
Last edited:

Saundra Julian

A work in progress
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
664
Location
Atlanta, GA
"I do know that their distributors are Ingram (no-s) and Baker and Taylor."

I thought they were wholesalers.

A wholesaler's main objective is getting the product to store in the shortest time and at the lowest possible cost.

Book distributors represent the interests and activities of book publishers.
 
Last edited:

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
For Publishers

Ingram provides innovative services that help publishers focus on publishing rather than distribution. We value our suppliers and consider them to be the key to bookselling success. To optimize our relationships, Ingram offers a wide variety of services that provide suppliers with the tools they need to stay close to the sales activity and the markets that we jointly serve. Find services tailored to fit your needs by clicking the Publishers link at left.

This is right off of Ingram's Website.

Welcome to Baker & Taylor, the world's largest book and entertainment distributor. In business for nearly 180 years, we are the wholesaler of choice for retailers and libraries worldwide because of our commitment to providing quick delivery, high fill rates, useful selection tools and responsive customer care. Browse our website to learn how Baker & Taylor serves different markets with a variety of exclusive programs and services.

And this is off of Baker & Taylor's website
 
Last edited:

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
163
For Publishers

Ingram provides innovative services that help publishers focus on publishing rather than distribution. We value our suppliers and consider them to be the key to bookselling success. To optimize our relationships, Ingram offers a wide variety of services that provide suppliers with the tools they need to stay close to the sales activity and the markets that we jointly serve. Find services tailored to fit your needs by clicking the Publishers link at left.

This is right off of Ingram's Website.

Welcome to Baker & Taylor, the world's largest book and entertainment distributor. In business for nearly 180 years, we are the wholesaler of choice for retailers and libraries worldwide because of our commitment to providing quick delivery, high fill rates, useful selection tools and responsive customer care. Browse our website to learn how Baker & Taylor serves different markets with a variety of exclusive programs and services.

And this is off of Baker & Taylor's website


Whatever the website says, they are not distributors. They have no sales force, they do not contact the retail shops on the publisher's behalf.

They are wholesalers. Baker and Taylor says they are wholesalers.

Distributors sell to retailers and to wholesalers with an active sales force to do the work.

The biggest publishing houses do their own distribution and occasionally work out deals with other publishers to distribute on their behalf. A couple years ago Zane Publishing announced a deal with Simon and Schuster to distribute books for them. Made Zane a much bigger business in the process.

http://www.ipgbook.com/about.html

http://www.midwestbookreview.com/bookbiz/distrib.htm

Are good places to start looking.

Regards,
Scott
 

LordChess

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
22
Reaction score
1
So someone like Barker and Taylor will get your print runs and deliver them to Ingram? Then Ingram will sell to book stores?
 

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
163
So someone like Barker and Taylor will get your print runs and deliver them to Ingram? Then Ingram will sell to book stores?

Both Baker and Taylor and Ingram's take orders for books and fulfill those orders.

That makes them wholesalers, nothing more.

Ask a salesman what the difference is between a salesman and an "order taker".

Regards,
Scott
 

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Baker & Taylor has nothing to do with Ingram. But Ingram does warehouse books. Barnes and Noble buy from Baker & Taylor and Ingram. If it does not say in Baker & Taylor or Ingram's data bases that a book is returnable then Barnes and Noble's computer will not allow them to buy the nonreturnable books. Barnes & Noble update their computers using Ingram and Baker & Taylor. Barnes and Noble stores only update their systems every first Tuesday of every month. So it takes awhile for a book to show up as returnable. This is some of the problems small presses have.

Ingram is a distributor they do sell books on the behalf of many publishing companies.

Ingram Publisher Services’ standard services to publishers include:

* Distribution and Back Office
* Credit and Collections
* Customer Service and Order Entry Services
* Bibliographic Processing and Services
* Sales Information and Reporting Services
* Freight Management

Additional services include:

* Sales and Marketing Services
* Special Returns Handling
* Supply Chain Solutions
* Print-on-Demand and Print-to-Order Solutions Through Lightning Source

This is also on their web page. Under publisher's programs.





In order for a bookseller to buy directly from a publishing company, the publishing company has to have a vender number. That was told to me directly from the personal of Barnes and Noble headquarters. I was thinking about opening my own publishing house once. I have 5 editor friends and quite a few marketing friends. I have studied deeply into running a publishing house. I decided against it because of how hard it is to get it off the ground. With two very young children to take care of. It would be very hard for me. CEO's of any business must be dedicated and quite frankly I rather work on my writing and to do publicity work for a few authors. I like staying behind the scenes.

As far as stating that it does not matter what is on a website. That is interesting because that is what started this whole conversation to begin with. Because of the badly written mission statement that is on Light Sword Publishings website.

Anywho, I must get going I have a lot of work to do. My authors count on me and I have only stated things I have learned in School, the many books, I have read and other publishers I have talked to. I have enjoyed my time here and it was nice meeting all of you.

Wishing you all much success!
Althelyna
 
Last edited:

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
It is simply true! You have to sell a certain amount of books before they hit large chains nation wide.

If I'm not mistaken, this is part of the application process a distributor requires on their form when a publisher seeks a desire to obtain distribution. I know I've seen it somewhere. It's meant as a benchmark only for the distributor to determine the size and scope of the publisher''s sales potential. I think distributors also ask what the publisher's best-seller was, and in what genre. Most publishers don't even qualify from the gate for lack of returns and substantial discounts.

Tri
 

J. R. Tomlin

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
598
Reaction score
64
Location
Oregon
Every time I think I'm getting a handle on the publishing business, I realize how much more there is to learn. Although I'm not sure an author really HAS to know about how the distribution process works, considering the problems you can run into with companies now, it certainly can't hurt.
 

Popeyesays

Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,461
Reaction score
163
I think the lady has departed. Maybe we weren't cooperative enough.

Regards,
Scott
 

Saundra Julian

A work in progress
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,593
Reaction score
664
Location
Atlanta, GA
That's exactly what it is Tri. Copied from Ingram website. (copyrighted material, btw.)

Good intentions coupled with very little knowledge is a scary thing, especially when you're not willing to listen and learn.
 
Last edited:

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
I have not departed, I have been on several website where no matter what proof you give people they are going to believe what ever they want. I do have mountains of knowledge on this subject and I never run from a conversation. I just see no point in arguing with you. I simply gave you proof and you can take it the way you want. I agreed to disagree. This discussion is spinning and is already on the second page and everyone is still wanting to find fault in what I have stated even though I have showed proof.

So therefore what is the point in keep showing you proof when no matter what I do you are going to accuse me of being naive, when I am not. BTW I am not using Ingram or Baker & Taylor's copyrighted material to further myself and I documented where the information has come from. I broke no laws!

Have a good day!
Althy
 

brianm

Brian Boru
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,170
Reaction score
976
Location
The desert of S. California and the coast of N. Ir
I find it intriguing whenever this scenario unfolds in a thread about a new publisher. There is always a motivation behind the posts, and I wonder what the motivation is that has caused this new member to join and post in this thread?

Perhaps, she’ll come back and reveal that mystery.

I am concerned whenever I see another ex-PA author open a publishing venture. My concern doubles when I can’t find anyone on their staff with solid experience in the publishing industry. Triples when it is disclosed they have limited capital. However, that information comes from this new member and I don’t know how accurate it is.

Publishing is an apprentice type career. Nevertheless, one does not start their apprenticeship at the helm of a new company. Linda Daly’s PA book was published in 2004 and her most recent work was released this year with LSP. If she did apprentice during those intervening four years, she does not indicate that in her bio. She seems more concerned about her image as a writer, and that becomes another concern.

I did read a portion of one of their books, which has a first edition release in February 2007 and a re-release in September of 2007. The little I did read was not ready for publication. Problematic punctuation, sentence structure, fragmented sentences, extra words, and one instance of a word that didn’t make sense at all. All of that in ten short paragraphs.

I do note on their homepage they have closed submissions until June of 2008, although this is not indicated on their submission page.
 

brianm

Brian Boru
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,170
Reaction score
976
Location
The desert of S. California and the coast of N. Ir
I have not departed, I have been on several website where no matter what proof you give people they are going to believe what ever they want. I do have mountains of knowledge on this subject and I never run from a conversation. I just see no point in arguing with you. I simply gave you proof and you can take it the way you want. I agreed to disagree. This discussion is spinning and is already on the second page and everyone is still wanting to find fault in what I have stated even though I have showed proof.

So therefore what is the point in keep showing you proof when no matter what I do you are going to accuse me of being naive, when I am not. BTW I am not using Ingram or Baker & Taylor's copyrighted material to further myself and I documented where the information has come from. I broke no laws!

Have a good day!
Althy

My dear, you do not have mountains of knowledge. It is painfully clear you have a limited knowledge of the publishing industry.

If you would take the time to read the profiles, you will find that many of the members who have responded to your posts have years of hands on experience in the industry, and do in fact know what they are talking about.

A couple questions.

1) Who published your book? I ask this because much of what you say echoes the misinformation disseminated on a certain publisher's member board.
2) Why are you so concerned about this particular publisher? What is your relationship to them?
 
Last edited:

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
Ingram is a distributor they do sell books on the behalf of many publishing companies.

Ingram Publisher Services’ standard services to publishers include:

* Distribution and Back Office
* Credit and Collections
* Customer Service and Order Entry Services
* Bibliographic Processing and Services
* Sales Information and Reporting Services
* Freight Management
Distributors provide these services, plus a staff of sales representatives to sell their publishers' books directly into bookstores. Without that direct sales component, it's extremely tough for a publisher to get its books on store shelves.

To add to your mountains of knowledge, here's some basic information on the difference between wholesalers and distributors.

- Victoria
 
Last edited:

AC Crispin

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
353
Reaction score
122
Location
Washington DC area
Website
www.accrispin.com
Advice to Light Sword

To me, "proof" that Light Sword is a real, commercial publisher will happen when the books are clearly shown as returnable, and I can find them on shelves in a couple of bookstores in my area.

Until that time, they strike me as just another startup POD company. Well intentioned, in all likelihood. But not a commercial publishing house.

Victoria and I have seen these startup efforts come and go, and they have a history of crashing and burning, because they're run in an unprofessional manner. I've worked with Simon & Schuster, Warner, Tor, the old Pinnacle, Berkley Ace (now Penguin), and Bantam. I know how the pro outfits behave, and Light Sword isn't doing that. Their heavy emphasis on having the authors buy and market their own books is the hallmark of a POD company started up by authors who have been burned by PA or other skunks. There have been others, for example, NF. None of them have lasted long, or succeeded. Yet.

If Linda Daly were here, my advice to her would be:

1. Tighten your editorial gatekeeping, and only accept high quality books.

2. Stop soliciting writers to submit manuscripts. Real publishers don't do that.

3. Get rid of every vestige of following a "business plan" that is identical to PublishAmerica's. The one dollar advance, the royalties paid on net, the required list of 100 "family and friends" that the book will be marketed to...all that stuff. Stop encouraging authors to buy their own books and emphasizing that all marketing is up to them. The best "marketing" tool in the world is getting books onto the shelves in bookstores. It's not bookmarks, or offering cookies at booksignings, or any of that tail-chasing.

4. Fix the grammatical and syntax errors on LS website.

5. Hire at least one person for the staff who has had real editorial and publishing experience with a commercial publisher.

6. Ditch the defensive attitude. The proof of legitimacy is in the pudding. Arguing with people on message boards without providing solid data, or encouraging authors to do this on your behalf is the mark of an amateur POD company.

But nobody asked me, so...

Adios!

-Ann C. Crispin
 

Althelyna

Registered
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Saint Paul, MN
I can clear up the mystery of why I am here on this thread. I was going to work for Light Sword Publishing. I contacted them and asked questions and I wanted to correct some of the errors here. Such as they are not a POD. They do not charge for anything and then the conversation was directed to me and my knowledge of the publishing world. I talked to a few of the authors from Light Sword they do not have to buy their books. When their books are released they are sent books at no charge. The fault that I see with Light sword is they do not do marketing before the book has been released. They start the marking process after the book has been released. Also I agree that they need to get people who have degrees in editoral, illustrations, and so forth.

I gave proof of how Ingram is a distributor and other things. I am a free lance publicist I have authors I work with and I do a lot for them. I do not know the types of books they print. I have NEVER had any ties with PA, Light Sword Publishing, or NF publishing. I threw in the last one before it was asked. I have been writing for as long as I can remember but I have only been working in the publishing industery for the last seven years.

My business class I took while I was in the United States Air Force has helped me a lot. I owned my own business at age 24 and it went well. I then decided that since I have children and I have the means to work at home I would. I have just been discharged from the military in July. That is one more thing off of my plate. I write for children. I have my third book written and I have my next three in the series outlined. I have outlined three chapter books for 9 to 12 year olds. I also have two novels geared for adult readership outlined and I have written two chapters of each. When I was a junior in high school I had two of my stories published in a magazine.

I have traveled around the world and I have met tons of people. I even read other writer's manuscripts and help them out with plot holes. I have my own editor and he has read everything I have written. Right now my book has been entered in the ForeWord Book of the Year Award. I have a poem that has made it to the finals in a poetry contest is going to be published with the other finalist.

I have endured scams and all sorts of stuff. I just think that ruining a new publishers reputation before they have a chance to establish it is wrong. I would have stuck up for any small press that has only been in business for year.

I think they should be given the chance that any other business has to make a reputation for them self. Then if they make that reputation as a unreliable publishing company then pick them apart.

As for my experiences well I have put it out in front of you. I can not make you believe me. You are all intelligent people who has had their own experiences you draw on. I draw on mine. I chose to go to the establishment and ask questions. So I do. I have talked to Ingram and I have talke to Baker & Taylor. I have talked to Barnes and Noble headquarters, and I have talked to Walden's books headquarters. I have also research marketing from Random house when I was writing my paper in college. A few of their marketing team took the time to talk to me. I also attend Literary workshops frequently. All the information I have stated has come directly from the horses mouth.

Now I have not talked to anyone from Random house for 6 years so therefore some of my information maybe dated.

I simply do not argue because people are going to take what they want from a conversation. They will only believe what they want and throw the rest out. Which everyone has that right. I simply do not feel that this conversation is being productive.

I am still having to prove the same points over and over. That is not being productive that is harping on a subject. Linda did not ask me to defend her company. I had information and I was burned trying to share it. I did not encourage anyone to sign with them. Matter of fact I stated that small press houses disappear regularly. See where they are in 3 to 7 years. I was not asked to come here. Anyway have a great day. I have a house to clean and research to do. Take care everyone.

I wish you all much success,
Althy
 
Last edited: