Cliches and pet peeves

I agree. I don't like it when characters' brains switch off during sensual scenes, or even during sex scenes themselves. Sometimes characters can be quite well written and developed, and then suddenly when they have sex they lose all their personality and become love machines.

I also don't like it when the writing is strong in a story, but weakens during the sex scenes. When that happens I wonder if the author rushed through the scenes because they find them boring, or if they revert to some sort of "blue print" with the idea that that's what readers want.

I'm tired of snarky heroines.

But my number one pet peeve?- "Turgid". Something about "turgid" makes me shutter and not in a good way.

Maryn said:

SierraLee, I'm the same way--so please don't hesitate to tactfully state your preferences in the future, okay?

I don't know about the rest of you, but when we're playing kissy face and more, my brain's all over the place, not solely focused on sex. I tend to write my characters the same way.

Maryn, never that single-minded

Click to expand...

Sticks said:

I agree. I don't like it when characters' brains switch off during sensual scenes, or even during sex scenes themselves. Sometimes characters can be quite well written and developed, and then suddenly when they have sex they lose all their personality and become love machines.

Click to expand...

Thanks for saying that, both of you.

I should just be up front warning you that I've become pretty timid about my opinion on these subjects. Fifty Shades wasn't my cup of tea, but it was a big deal for a lot of my friends and they seemed to find it really liberating to address their sexuality that way (And that's fine! Everyone can like what they like!). But when I mentioned some of my less weird kinks, I got a pretty negative reaction. I'm here (and writing) partially as a way to work through this, so bear with me.

s.j.l said:

I absolutely, absolutely hate when someone says I'll/I'm going to "f*ck the sh*t out of you" and it's between an M/M couple. That just conjures really really gross images and I can't help but shudder and look away even if I'm really engrossed in the story.

Click to expand...

Thank god it's not just me!

The phrase "fuck the shit out of you" does not belong in any sex scene, IMO. Especially the gay ones.

Maryn said:

FWIW, as guys get older (and especially if they use pharmaceuticals to help achieve/maintain erection), it's not unusual for them to remain ready for it through more than one sexual episode, whether they have an orgasm or not.

I'm using that in my current WIP. He can go again and again, without climax, until it reaches the point where she does not want any more.

Maryn, been there, done that, sore later

Click to expand...

Hello, tantric sex!!

ViridianChick said:

Thank god it's not just me!

The phrase "fuck the shit out of you" does not belong in any sex scene, IMO. Especially the gay ones.

Click to expand...

I'm hoping there are many many more (authors) out there who do! That way I'll never see it again. I flashed back to this thread while I was driving today and started worrying that my windscreen wipers were on the OUTSIDE of my screen instead of inside where it'd get rid of all my puke...

Maryn said:

FWIW, as guys get older (and especially if they use pharmaceuticals to help achieve/maintain erection), it's not unusual for them to remain ready for it through more than one sexual episode, whether they have an orgasm or not.

I'm using that in my current WIP. He can go again and again, without climax, until it reaches the point where she does not want any more.

Maryn, been there, done that, sore later

Click to expand...

haha I'm glad you said this because here I was reading what other people were writing about guys staying hard after orgasm and thinking, "Is that not normal?"

I've never been hesitant to write that into sex scenes because umm yeah, that's been my honest to god experience. I'm glad I now know that it bothers people.

My huge pet peeve is people being disrespected during sex. It can seriously kill my sex drive for a long time afterwards.

I find this thread very insightful. I always thought that erotica was written as fantasy and escape. Interesting.

Riley-Cole said:

I find this thread very insightful. I always thought that erotica was written as fantasy and escape. Interesting.

Click to expand...

Well, I've met erotica writers who describe it as porn pulp and link it to B-rated horror in quality. Quality doesn't matter as long as you make the reader get off. I've also met erotica writers who expect more of their writing.

Riley-Cole said:

I find this thread very insightful. I always thought that erotica was written as fantasy and escape. Interesting.

Click to expand...

??

Aren't most books written as escape? And what does that have to do with this?

Rina Evans said:

Quality doesn't matter as long as you make the reader get off.

Click to expand...

I'd say that the higher-quality the material, the better the reader gets off.

dangerousbill said:

On behalf of many other XY writers, you have to dig pretty deep in the research phase to turn up this well-concealed fact. It's still listed in the codex of Things Guys Aren't Told And Aren't Supposed To Know.

Hell, in some countries, a woman can be killed if she's discovered to come up short in the hymen department, for whatever reason.

Click to expand...

Which is why they sell fake ones.

I also am bugged by instantaneous, effortless, female orgasms, especially when they're from intercourse alone. Especially when a couple is new to one another. Most people need a little practice (or excellent communication skills) with a new partner before they figure out what works best. Heck, it's even annoying when it's in a more experienced context, because it ignores the fact that many, possibly most, women need more than just intercourse to achieve orgasm. Yes, erotica is about fantasy, but it does contribute to the notion that there's something wrong with you if you're not one of those lucky women who has a hairtrigger orgasmic response. It's even worse if one's partner feels this because of the stuff he's read.

Complete lack of concern for pregnancy or disease in situations where it is logical that they could be issues is also annoying. I can see not cluttering the erotic scene itself with such talk, but at some point, if it's a story, the issue should come up, or at least be thought of/worried about.

It's one issue I have with romances set in pre-industrial times in the real world. The lack of good contraception just makes non-procreative sex seem too risky to be much fun. As I read these stories, I'm wondering, "When she's going to get pregnant?"

ViridianChick said:

??

Aren't most books written as escape? And what does that have to do with this?

Click to expand...

What I was trying to get at is that some writers here are saying we should be writing more realistically and not make everyone perfect with great bodies and ample breasts. I was questioning if people want to read about that overweight partner who accidentally farted during sex or do they want to read about that girl up the street with the perfect body who was amazing in bed? According the the writers here it would be the farting partner. Just my .02 worth of opinion.

You do know there's a spectrum between overweight farting partner and impossibly hot babe, right?

(I only used those examples because Riley said so. I personally would not mind some laughs and accidents in erotica. As well as a bigger range of body types which aren't there to be fetishized)

Yep, there is a middle ground. And an entire spectrum. Reading about the girl up the street with a perfect body who is amazing in bed would just make me feel even more insecure about my own, um, attributes. And it probably wouldn't be written for someone in my demographic either (middle aged, heterosexual woman). Honestly, I don't find lengthy, detailed descriptions of either partner's hotness to be as alluring as the description of what they're doing and of the sensations and emotions anyway.

But that's me. Not saying everything has to be written to my taste, just that I'm less likely to read erotica at all if it's difficult to find stuff that doesn't make me feel like a freak for being interested in it when I'm so clearly over the hill.

Riley-Cole said:

What I was trying to get at is that some writers here are saying we should be writing more realistically and not make everyone perfect with great bodies and ample breasts. I was questioning if people want to read about that overweight partner who accidentally farted during sex or do they want to read about that girl up the street with the perfect body who was amazing in bed? According the the writers here it would be the farting partner.

Click to expand...

Well, there's a Judith Krantz sex scene where the heroine accidentally farts afterwards (though she's not overweight).

As everyone said, there's a middle ground. I can achieve an escapist experience even without the heroine having a perfect body. In fact, if the story stresses how gorgeous either partner is, without any balance in terms of flaws either physical or emotional, that's more likely to turn me off.

One of these days, I'd love to see one of those naked-torso-and-cutoff-head erotica covers where the hero has more of a keg than a six pack.

On the 'too perfect character' trope, I'll just judge it as a form of Mary Sue and stop reading there.

Marian Perera said:

The hero and heroine have sex three times and he's still rock hard. This doesn't turn me on. It makes me concerned he has priapism and needs medical help.

Click to expand...

I remember back when I was 19 this was realistic. College age kids early to mid 20s can be like that.Actually 27 year old guys were still like that. It's not that unusual maybe 30s and older it gets less common.

Riley-Cole said:

What I was trying to get at is that some writers here are saying we should be writing more realistically and not make everyone perfect with great bodies and ample breasts. I was questioning if people want to read about that overweight partner who accidentally farted during sex or do they want to read about that girl up the street with the perfect body who was amazing in bed? According the the writers here it would be the farting partner. Just my .02 worth of opinion.

Click to expand...

Hum. My preference is for characters that are above average, but not over-the-top. They need to be believable.

So no super hot babes on the street, but maybe a introverted geek who treats sex like a science and gives the best blowjobs. Maybe not a handsome, brilliant, kind prince, but a good-looking soldier who can last hours in bed.

Too much perfection breaks suspension of disbelief.

Riley-Cole said:

What I was trying to get at is that some writers here are saying we should be writing more realistically and not make everyone perfect with great bodies and ample breasts. I was questioning if people want to read about that overweight partner who accidentally farted during sex or do they want to read about that girl up the street with the perfect body who was amazing in bed? According the the writers here it would be the farting partner. Just my .02 worth of opinion.

Click to expand...

More realistically tends to be for literary fiction not erotic romance. Erotic romance would the majority of the time be pretty damn hot, but with some flaws, and the female likely to be more flawed than the male if it is M/F.

Sticks said:

But my number one pet peeve?- "Turgid". Something about "turgid" makes me shutter and not in a good way.

Click to expand...

It sounds like turd, that's why. I'm sorry. Obviously I never use it.

gingerwoman said:

More realistically tends to be for literary fiction not erotic romance. Erotic romance would the majority of the time be pretty damn hot, but with some flaws, and the female likely to be more flawed than the male if it is M/F.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting point. I've noticed a similar phenomenon in m/m where the main POV character is less attractive (or at least thinks so) and his love interest is hot.

The narrator usually perceives themselves as less hot than their love interest. I think there's a certain "you're interested in me?" fantasy that readers often enjoy.

That being said, one of my favorite books is Brute, where the POV character is an enormous ugly guy with self-esteem issues and his love interest is a gaunt, eyeless prisoner.

gingerwoman said:

More realistically tends to be for literary fiction not erotic romance. Erotic romance would the majority of the time be pretty damn hot, but with some flaws, and the female likely to be more flawed than the male if it is M/F.

Click to expand...

I think we can see why. Women predominantly read erotic romance and they want to believe that a somewhat flawed/average woman can get a hunky, perfect guy. That is, if you read romance to insert yourself into the relationship.

That being said, one of my favorite books is Brute, where the POV character is an enormous ugly guy with self-esteem issues and his love interest is a gaunt, eyeless prisoner.

Click to expand...

I've had that book on my Kindle for a long time but I can't bring myself to read it because blindness is a big phobia of mine. At least combined with the eyeless part.

Rina Evans said:

I've had that book on my Kindle for a long time but I can't bring myself to read it because blindness is a big phobia of mine. At least combined with the eyeless part.

Click to expand...

Oh dear. Well, if you can manage it, it's worth it. Her writing is very clean and evocative. I remember wincing a little at the first mention of "eyeless sockets," though it was a tasteful description, not something written to deliberately disgust the reader.

I look away whenever eyes are injured on TV. Especially with fingers. Eek!

* The 'he puts the 'awww' in 'random sexual assawwwlt'' thing of romanticizing lack of consent. "Oh no, Studly McHunkypants, we mustn't!" He pressed his manly lips upon her squirming wince...

* Measurements are bad. Treating his wallet as one of those measurements is worse. "With a classy wave of his gold rolex, he ushered her into his super-waxed, mink-seat-covered, BMW TigerSpunk with the platinum radio knobs..."

* Heroines who lie there like a deflated air-mattress before inexplicably orgasming more dramatically than Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

* "Then, at a point perfectly poised between the gauche speed of youth and the slowness of waning libido and incontinent old age, Studly McHunkypants climaxed, screwing his face into a mask of ecstasy that was not in the slightest way laughable..."

* The fact that I have never yet read an erotic containing the phrase "he fed his Boba Fett into her pocket Sarlacc"