Amazon removes Hachette buy links from its stores.

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Scribhneoir

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Who said that basically Amazon have forced him to sign up to a program he doesn't want to be in (I forget the name of said program sorry, but it includes a massive discount and him paying the shipping) and that by doing so he makes a loss on each book. But if he didn't sigh up....all his books show as unavailable.

If every Amazon sale is a loss, his books being unavailable there is more a benefit than a punishment. What did he choose to do?
 

RedWombat

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Same thing happened with a small press I work with. They just don't sell through Amazon, it'd drive them out of business eventually.
 

Weirdmage

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Apropos of nothing...

Was at a con this weekend and was talking to a small (but very well respected) publisher.

Who said that basically Amazon have forced him to sign up to a program he doesn't want to be in (I forget the name of said program sorry, but it includes a massive discount and him paying the shipping) and that by doing so he makes a loss on each book. But if he didn't sigh up....all his books show as unavailable.

It's not just Hatchette here peeps.

I've seen that claim from several small publishers in the last couple of years, that Amazon forces them into terms that means they lose money on every print book they sell through them. (Usually anonymously in comment threads, because these people feel threatened by Amazon's power over them.) But they have to be on Amazon because of e-books, so they have to do it. Or, at least their customers demand it.
At least one of them mentioned that they couldn't sell the print books cheaper on their own site either, since Amazon demands a "most favoured nation" clause.
Would have been interesting to see some regulatory authorities investigate things like that...
 
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Aggy B.

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It's a well reasoned response. And it makes Amazon's e-mail seem even more bizzarre in comparison.

That was my thought too. You might disagree with letting every version of a book help to pay for the whole, but it's not a ridiculous business model. And far less "OmG Nazis!" than the Amazon email.
 

Mr Flibble

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As I understand it, the loss is on print books. And Amazon doesn't allow them to just sell the e-books through them.

Indeed

As for this pub, he said he chose to list only the books he has hanging about -- ie that aren't being sold anywhere else and he's already paid for all teh printing etc. It might at least get some word out about them.

Thing is, if you aren't on amazon, you're missing out on a big chunk of market. Especially if, like this guy, you don't regularly get into Waterstones (And that was a whole 'nother tale! Though his latest is in there and doing quite well)
 

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This article cites a Wall Street Journal article (behind paywall) about Amazon's dispute with Disney. (Which as far as I can see is playing out the same way, and may - or may not - be about the same things as Amazon's dispute with Hachette.) Apart from money, that dispute is about:

Differences regarding promotion and product placement on Amazon's website, as well as who makes up the price difference when Amazon loses money due to matching policies are also main factors in the disagreement.
[My bold.]

So...Amazon seems to want their suppliers to pay for the pricematcing they do to be competitive. And that is after co-op fees, discounts, etc... If Amazon also demands this from Hachette, I see absolutely no way they can agree to it. Nor do I think they should.

ETA: Just to clarify, I haven't read the WSJ article.
 
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JennTX

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So...Amazon seems to want their suppliers to pay for the pricematcing they do to be competitive. And that is after co-op fees, discounts, etc... If Amazon also demands this from Hachette, I see absolutely no way they can agree to it. Nor do I think they should.

If this is true, then Amazon is ridiculous. Why the heck would a company cut into their own profits so that one supplier can remain competitive? The arrogance is jaw dropping. Amazon may lose their status as the "everything" store.

I think we can look at Wal-Mart as a comparison to Amazon. For a while, they were the cheapest place in town. Now, I can find the same items at Target, Costco, etc. for about the same price. Companies will push back and cut off supply when a retailer's demands become too high.
 

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Has there been any action on this? It was so big for a while, and then just... silence?
 

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I haven't heard anything lately, though I've been wondering if there was any news regarding the topic.

EDIT: I saw this in my twitter feed. I only skimmed the article, and it's only sort of related: http://seattletimes.com/html/specialreportspages/2024318110_amazonfrancexml.html

I also found this, but I'm not sure it really adds anything new to the topic: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/aug/24/ebooks-amazon-hachette-paperbacks-penguin-allen-lane

As a sidenote, I have not checked the sources of the articles for legitimacy, so proceed with care.
 
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oceansoul

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I'm kind of hoping that with Disney, they've bitten off more than they can chew. I don't see them being able to very effectively bully a corporation with movie revenues like those coming to Disney.

I love Amazon for some things. I have a PRIME account, and I love using them to get foreign, high protein catfood delivered to my door by 10am the next day.

However, I really find it unfortunate that in the UK there aren't really good alternative ebook distributors. I try not to buy books from Amazon, and I never buy books for pleasure from them (I go to Waterstones) but sometimes with obscure academic books, nobody else has it! At least, not for a price I can even possibly afford

At least in the UK, I haven't noticed quite so much demise of the brick and mortar bookstore. Speaking as someone who lives half her life in the US and half in Scotland, I think a huge reason for this is the sheer size of US bookstores. Most UK stores are 'petite' by comparison and they don't dedicate half their floor space to Starbucks/Music sections. I remember absolutely LOVING the Borders on Michigan Ave in Chicago. It was magical to me as kid living most of the time in Surrey that malls in America had all of these multi-floor enormous bookstores. But as an adult, I can see how maintaining the rent and staff to equip such stores might not be such a good long term model.
 
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Perks

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Oh lovely. That article says that Simon & Schuster is up next, just behind Hachette in the negotiations with Amazon.
 

slhuang

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louwriter

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Amazon Is Being Unfair

Aside from the fact that this war is going on for quite a bit, I think it's unfair for Amazon to use its outsize power to force publishers to cut prices by treating some differently than others.

I joined a debate about this and would like to share it with the forum to see what folks think. Here it is: http://room4debate.com/debate/amazon-vs.-hachette
 

Kylabelle

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louwriter, welcome to AW. As you are brand new, and this is your first post, you probably have not read the Newbie Guide, nor had much chance to get to know our community.

We have had quite a lengthy and involved conversation/debate/discussion right here, about Amazon, Hachette, and related matters. I don't feel it's quite appropriate to come in and first off the bat ask our members to go elsewhere to have a similar conversation, so I've unapproved your post.

If you'd like to join the the conversation that's here, we'll be glad to have you. First, though, I suggest you go to the new members area and introduce yourself and get acclimated to our forums a bit. Once you've become part of the community, you'll find ways to share your other connections, I feel sure.
 

KMTolan

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Based on what indie publishers are saying, the plunging sales at Amazon isn't just an EC thing. There is a general suspicion in the industry (small press) that the search algorithms are heavily favoring Amazon's own books.

This rabbit hole's just getting deeper.

Kerry
 

EvolvingK

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Based on what indie publishers are saying, the plunging sales at Amazon isn't just an EC thing. There is a general suspicion in the industry (small press) that the search algorithms are heavily favoring Amazon's own books.

This rabbit hole's just getting deeper.

Kerry

EC shot themselves in the foot, though, by refusing to revamp their covers to avoid the "adult" filter.

I have *feels* as one of the authors currently caught up in the EC mess.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Based on what indie publishers are saying, the plunging sales at Amazon isn't just an EC thing. There is a general suspicion in the industry (small press) that the search algorithms are heavily favoring Amazon's own books.

This rabbit hole's just getting deeper.

Kerry

This wouldn't surprise me in the least.

After all Amazon is a business. They're going to do what's best for THEM and promoting their own books will put more money in their pockets... well, they're going to do that.

As soon as Amazon got into the publishing game this was inevitable. If I go to a HarperCollins site I'm going to see HC books there - why would I expect to see Amazon *not* pushing their own books? Not to mention the self-pubs that give Amazon basically free money since Amazon does nothing other than distribute the books...

*shrugs*
 

amergina

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