Beheading in Oklahoma

William Haskins · Sep 26, 2014

(CNN) -- Alton Nolen, suspected of beheading a woman and stabbing another at his workplace in Oklahoma on Thursday before the company's COO shot him, is in stable condition at a hospital, Moore police Sgt. Jeremy Lewis said Friday. The surviving stabbing victim, Traci Johnson, 43, also is in stable condition at a hospital, Lewis said.

Nolen was shot by the company's chief operating officer, Mark Vaughn, who also is a Oklahoma County reserve sheriff's deputy, Moore police Sgt. Jeremy Lewis said Friday. Vaughn's intervention came as the attacker was stabbing Johnson at the plant, Lewis said.

Nolen had recently been trying to convert co-workers to Islam, Moore police Sgt. Jeremy Lewis said Friday, citing investigators' interviews with people. Moore police have asked the FBI to help them investigate Nolen's background, Lewis said.

http://www.wptv.com/news/national/v...man-beheads-woman-in-moore-oklahoma-workplace

nealraisman · Sep 26, 2014

that is one sick MF. This is getting crazy and making it seem as if every Muslim wants to kill.I know that is not true but the crazies are causing people to believe that Islam is a violence prone religion.

ColoradoGuy · Sep 26, 2014

From the title I assumed it was going to be about the OK legislature proposing to use beheading for executions, since the ones using lethal IV drugs had so many problems.

nighttimer · Sep 26, 2014

Religion has nothing to do with this. Islam is simply the news hook. Crazy has everything to do with this.

Crazy people don't need a reason to do something crazy. All they need is an opportunity.

Vince524 · Sep 26, 2014

nighttimer said:
Religion has nothing to do with this. Islam is simply the news hook. Crazy has everything to do with this.

Crazy people don't need a reason to do something crazy. All they need is an opportunity.

True enough. I think that evil is a better word. You've got to have evil in your heart to friggin cut someone's head off. The Islam angle is their personal justification and it's real hard to talk someone down from that when they believe that the Almight wants them to do this.

That doesn't mean that their actions should be a reflection on others who believe in God or Islam. However the Islamic angle shouldn't be ignored. It's a common theme here. I don't think it reflects on the religion, but people who have that sick, evil inside of them and find their way to this brand of Islam because it feeds that part of them, it's not a coincidence. I don't think, in the end, it would matter that they gather under the banner of Islam as oppossed to Christiananity or even under the Mickey Mouse club. But the fact that they come together under something that they attest to, swear by and find comfort in with and help spur each other on, that's something that has to be taken into account.

The trick when talking about it is to be able to make sure that you're clear when you draw that line, that the evil SOB's that cop off heads, rape women, slaughter children and kill for their beliefs are on one side of the line, but those who are against it, the vast majority of people who beleive in Islam included are on the other side.

Williebee · Sep 26, 2014

nealraisman said:
but the crazies are causing people to believe that Islam is a violence prone religion.

Nah. "crazies" don't do that. Ignorance does. Maybe laziness.

Zoombie · Sep 26, 2014

Hmm...

You know, after a major sensational news story about serial killers or school shooters, there's usually a spate of copycats. I wonder if the war drums being beaten by the news media helped to shape this guy's murderous rampage.

I say SHAPE, not cause - I bet if it had, then he'd have nailed someone to a cross if the sensationalist news was reporting on a modern day version of Jesus.

Rufus Coppertop · Sep 26, 2014

Vince524 said:
However the Islamic angle shouldn't be ignored. It's a common theme here.

Yeah it is, but if you follow the link here

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296950

And click on the link to the news story and click on the "detailed refutation" or just follow this link

http://lettertobaghdadi.com/index.php

and read section 8.A, "The Intention Behind Jihad" according to 100 Muslim clerics, it becomes pretty clear that this idiot is going to be dragged face down and cast into the fires of hell if Islam does in fact turn out to be true.

Amadan · Sep 26, 2014

Zoombie said:
You know, after a major sensational news story about serial killers or school shooters, there's usually a spate of copycats.

Really?

Xelebes · Sep 26, 2014

Amadan said:
Really?

There was a spate of copycats after Columbine that died out by the end of the school year. The famous one in Canada was the shooting at WR Myers in Taber.

There was also a man a couple cities down from Ferguson who decided in a confused manner, due to his mental illness, to protest the shooting in Ferguson. He was shot and killed by police.

Some copycats right off the top of my head.

backslashbaby · Sep 26, 2014

I saw something on the news about QSIS urging beheadings by lone wolf operatives in the US. They must have urged that in lots of countries, because I heard something about France, too, and we all know about Australia.

Then there is the guy in NJ who murdered as a lone wolf jihadist all summer across the country, minus the beheading part. I actually wonder if that's where QSIS got the idea. Supposedly they keep up with Western news very intently.

Rufus Coppertop · Sep 26, 2014

Zoombie said:
I say SHAPE, not cause - I bet if it had, then he'd have nailed someone to a cross if the sensationalist news was reporting on a modern day version of Jesus.

I think it's less likely to be a simple case of copy-cattery and more likely to be a case of Isil's exhortation to lone wolves to strike, evoking a response from the narcissistic tendencies of a psychopathic arsehole who believes in a warped interpretation of Islam.

Nailing someone to a cross because the media reported on a modern day Jesus would probably constitute psychopathic apostasy for such a Muslim.

I'm sure more info will come out over the next few days.

Rufus Coppertop · Sep 26, 2014

backslashbaby said:
I saw something on the news about QSIS urging beheadings by lone wolf operatives in the US. They must have urged that in lots of countries, because I heard something about France, too, and we all know about Australia.

An apparent lone wolf inspired by isil/qsis tried to behead a policeman at my local cop shop the other day and got a bullet in the head for his trouble.

Amadan · Sep 26, 2014

Xelebes said:
There was a spate of copycats after Columbine that died out by the end of the school year. The famous one in Canada was the shooting at WR Myers in Taber.

I don't think one incident that created some copycats justifies "usually."

CassandraW · Sep 26, 2014

nighttimer said:
Religion has nothing to do with this. Islam is simply the news hook. Crazy has everything to do with this.

Crazy people don't need a reason to do something crazy. All they need is an opportunity.

+1

the crazies are causing people to believe that Islam is a violence prone religion.

Williebee said:
Nah. "crazies" don't do that. Ignorance does. Maybe laziness.

+1

But it's pretty disturbing that the crazies and the ignorant/lazy are taking over so much of the news lately.

Williebee · Sep 26, 2014

CassandraW said:
But it's pretty disturbing that the crazies and the ignorant/lazy are taking over so much of the news lately.

It's disturbing that the news is giving so much time, identification and screen time to the perpetrators.

chompers · Sep 26, 2014

Vince524 said:
True enough. I think that evil is a better word. You've got to have evil in your heart to friggin cut someone's head off. The Islam angle is their personal justification and it's real hard to talk someone down from that when they believe that the Almight wants them to do this.

No, I think they use that as an excuse. Like this guy had been fired shortly before this happened and had a history of domestic violence.

Vince524 · Sep 26, 2014

Williebee said:
It's disturbing that the news is giving so much time, identification and screen time to the perpetrators.

Isn't that always the way?

Ted Bundy.

Jeffery Dahmer.

Jack the Ripper.

We remember the killers better than the victims.

Williebee · Sep 26, 2014

Speaking of victims (and crazy) remember the guy on the bus in Canada who beheaded a passenger and tried to eat him? The mountie who witnessed it committed suicide. One of some 13 first responders who have committed suicide in the last ten weeks in Canada. They're blaming PTSD.

Crazy has ripple effects - hate, copycats, collateral victims.

Vince524 · Sep 26, 2014

Williebee said:
Speaking of victims (and crazy) remember the guy on the bus in Canada who beheaded a passenger and tried to eat him? The mountie who witnessed it committed suicide. One of some 13 first responders who have committed suicide in the last ten weeks in Canada. They're blaming PTSD.

Crazy has ripple effects - hate, copycats, collateral victims.

Sure it does. And I think one of those is that if you get a bunch of loons together with semi loons or easily swayed people or whatnot, they can make people who weren't loony before do loony things. Group think, mob mentality, what have you.

Roxxsmom · Sep 26, 2014

Vince524 said:
I don't think, in the end, it would matter that they gather under the banner of Islam as oppossed to Christiananity or even under the Mickey Mouse club. But the fact that they come together under something that they attest to, swear by and find comfort in with and help spur each other on, that's something that has to be taken into account.

Depraved killers have certainly rallied under many flags, and there has been no shortage of Christian terrorists in this country. It's horrific no matter what name they're doing their killing in, but when people do it in the name of Islamic fundamentalism they get a lot more press, and people are more likely to attribute it to the religion itself.

Zoombie · Sep 26, 2014

Amadan said:
I don't think one incident that created some copycats justifies "usually."

Well, some cursory googling brings up guidelines on how to avoid creating copy-cats via how you report on crimes.

No idea if it actually works, mind you.

Amadan · Sep 26, 2014

Zoombie said:
Well, some cursory googling brings up guidelines on how to avoid creating copy-cats via how you report on crimes.

No idea if it actually works, mind you.

My point was that if one is looking for the cause of the recent beheading fad, there seem to be some more obvious and likely hypotheses than "the media is shaping the news in such a way as to encourage copycats."

Opty · Sep 26, 2014

nighttimer said:
Religion has nothing to do with this. Islam is simply the news hook. Crazy has everything to do with this.

Crazy people don't need a reason to do something crazy. All they need is an opportunity.

I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me that in some cases that's simply politically correct blame shifting. If a large group, like ISIL, follow a barbarous belief system, then the blame is "sort of" put on their religious beliefs, but in a "No True Scotsman" kind of way. If an individual acts in the same way for apparently similar reasons, then it's not his belief system's fault; he's just "crazy."

I'm speaking in generalities here and not necessarily this specific story (although the guy apparently had been trying to convert his coworkers to Isalm before this happened) but at what point does indoctrination become considered a mental illness?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that a person can operate under a horribly irrational belief system (e.g. Religious fundamentalism) and not actually be "crazy"? Where is the line drawn?

Rufus Coppertop · Sep 28, 2014

Opty said:
I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me that in some cases that's simply politically correct blame shifting. If a large group, like ISIL, follow a barbarous belief system, then the blame is "sort of" put on their religious beliefs, but in a "No True Scotsman" kind of way.

Hopefully, even more of the sensible Muslims will condemn them as the 100 clerics did.

Hopefully they'll soon be isilated. :e2brows:

If an individual acts in the same way for apparently similar reasons, then it's not his belief system's fault; he's just "crazy."

They didn't have DSM in Muhammed's day but the section of the 100 clerics document (link provided by Mr Haskins http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296950) says that jihad genuinely fought for God (ie - a defensive and communal war that fulfills the criteria and which doesn't involve torture, murder and forced conversion) might gain the martyr entry to paradise but fighting (and being martyred) to embiggen yourself in the eyes of other Muslims gets you dragged face down into the fire.

It's easy to retrospectively put one's own interpretation on such things and say, "see, even Allah knew about Narcissistic Personality Disorders with Antisocial tendencies" but at least we can say that Muhammed knew there were peeps who liked fighting to prove their machismo.

I'm speaking in generalities here and not necessarily this specific story (although the guy apparently had been trying to convert his coworkers to Isalm before this happened) but at what point does indoctrination become considered a mental illness?Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that a person can operate under a horribly irrational belief system (e.g. Religious fundamentalism) and not actually be "crazy"? Where is the line drawn?

Approximtely six feet and seven and a half inches to the left of sociopathy?

Beheading in Oklahoma

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tenured at Mammon U

I've seen worse.

No Gods No Masters

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Dragon of the Multiverse

Delerium ex Ennui

~~~~*~~~~

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

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Dragon of the Multiverse

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