Issues With Getting It Right When Writing About A Certain Faction of Society...

shadowwalker said:

Even that is over-reaching, I think. Where I come from, costume is not restricted to dressing as something you aren't, or Halloween. We have a lot of festivals around here, celebrating various heritage groups (Norwegians, Greeks, Italians, Irish, NA, etc etc). I have never heard anyone not refer to traditional "costumes". Now, 'regalia' typically does have a different connotation - as in 'overdone' or 'exaggerated'. But that's around here, so I would not tell someone it's seen that way "in the US". The US is a pretty big place, after all.

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Fair enough. But in my experiences across the US from the midwest where I live, to the plains, to the southwest which is my traditional home, to the reaches of Alaska, I've always heard "regalia" or "clothing" (with various adjectives such as "traditional" or "ceremonial") as the term for Native American clothing from various traditions. I have never once heard another Native American refer to traditional clothings as a "costume".

My perspective on this is informed from what I have heard from other natives around the US.

The only time I have ever worn a Native American "costume" was when I played a part in my high school production of Peter Pan. And today, I deeply, deeply regret that.

For reasons probably beyond the scope of this thread.

I think this whole discussion hits the nail on the head re: the OP. Even when you get it "right", it's still going to be "wrong" for some individual/group/location. There are just too many variables. So other than avoiding the obvious cardboard stereotypes, one can only write individuals and hope they get that person right for the story.

shadowwalker said:

I think this whole discussion hits the nail on the head re: the OP. Even when you get it "right", it's still going to be "wrong" for some individual/group/location. There are just too many variables. So other than avoiding the obvious cardboard stereotypes, one can only write individuals and hope they get that person right for the story.

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Indeed

And I learned a few things too. Even if I was a graceless tit about it. Sorry about that (being a tit, not being educated)

You can't please all the people, all the time. "Costume" may not be the most accurate of words, but most Scots and Irish that I know would be more offended by the suggestion that they wear kilts all the time.

They don't. Stag nights, graduations, black tie dinners and weddings. Frankly that makes the kilt much closer to a costume than to everyday clothes.

Focusing on the OP's question. We will probably never get it 100% right. There will always be someone who will find something to object to. But as long as we focus on character over stereotype and try our level best not to put a foot in it, we should hopefully get it close enough.

Mr Flibble said:

Should we all write in US English? Does every writer need to be aware of every US connotation of a word in the us, even if they are writing for another audience?

While I am aware this is not where you are going, it IS where it leads me. Costume is bad in the US. Ok. That does not mean it is off limits elsewhere

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As as US citizen, I can say I have never given "costume" a negative connotation....so even here it the meaning isn't consistent.

I don't know why it is has turned into such a thing in this thread.

JHFC said:

I don't know why it is has turned into such a thing in this thread.

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I think it just became one example of how things can get turned on their heads when we get overly concerned about causing offense.

JHFC said:

As as US citizen, I can say I have never given "costume" a negative connotation....so even here it the meaning isn't consistent.

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"Costume" doesn't have a negative connotation for me either. I love costumes and cosplay.

But say you're wearing nice formalwear for a party, and someone tells you "nice pajamas."

Nothing wrong with the word "pajamas", but in context it's a bit insulting.

kuwisdelu said:

Nothing wrong with the word "pajamas", but in context it's a bit insulting.

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In context it's nonsensical.

I guess I should probably bow out of this thread by now.

Best of luck, KTC. I believe in you.

JHFC said:

I don't know why it is has turned into such a thing in this thread.

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It sounds like miscommunication, to me.

Costume itself isn't a bad word. But the trouble is that it has implications with things like this. Personally, I've been lucky to never see someone dressing up in my culture's clothes, but I imagine it gets frustrating for someone who sees it often.

Does this mean you need to analyze every word in your novel to make sure it isn't offensive? No, not really. But this is why it's helpful to have betas who can point out stuff -- you might think you're writing Noughts & Crosses, but it's actually more like Save the Pearls.

Costume
noun
ˈkäsˌto͞om/
1.
a set of clothes in a style typical of a particular country or historical period

If some people have an idiosyncratic reading of the word costume where it doesn't mean exactly that, that is their right-- no one can tell you a word doesn't offend you. But understand you aren't even representative of your entire country's thoughts on the matter, so sweeping statements like "In America that's offensive" aren't even true. How can you expect foreigners to understand what is offensive if you don't even have a consensus in your own country?

Some people are going to be offended no matter what you do. Just write what feels real and make sure you know enough that it will be genuine.

I have been wrestling with exactly this through my current WIP and many times, I have felt completely paralyzed and unable to write.

You see, I have a Lakota character in the book. It's 1882, and I've done my research to death. I spent a lot of time going to ghost towns, and reading about the time period, but I've spent probably twice as much time trying to get every detail of this one character right. I've got more material on him than on the main character because I'm so scared of getting him wrong.

I have no qualms writing some of the townspeople treating him badly. I have no problems with his interactions with his few friends. I have no problem with his clothes, or his mannerisms. He's just a person, and it all comes naturally into the story.

My problem is he's an alcoholic--in the parlance of the times, a drunk. He's not the funny drunk. He's not violent. He's a good guy who started drinking to forget, and found he couldn't stop. He has to deal with the stereotypes of the times, but he isn't a stereotype. His personal journey is one of my favorite things about the story.

But, I am terrified of the backlash for including a drunk Indian in my book.

Samsonet said:

It sounds like miscommunication, to me.

Costume itself isn't a bad word. But the trouble is that it has implications with things like this. Personally, I've been lucky to never see someone dressing up in my culture's clothes, but I imagine it gets frustrating for someone who sees it often.

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As kilts were brought up: without the Japanese, UK military, America, Australia, South Africa, Canada etc there wouldn't be a kilt/tartan/plaid/woollen industry in Scotland. The reason we have a modern national dress is because people dress up in the culture's clothes all the time.

I have a friend who started making kilt socks, another who makes Highland Cow tea cosies, another who does Tam O'Shanter's -- their market isn't Scots it's those people who are Scots a hundred times removed but have a Scottish surname.

How often do Americans use England to describe the UK? There are a few cultures on this tiny island that find it offensive but I don't know too many that don't just roll their eyes and think "They're ignorant Americans what do they know." We had one delightful American on a tour of Windsor castle ask why they built it on the flight path for Gatwick airport etc We laugh about it and satirise it but I don't know too many who take huge offence at it. My husband is American -- the culture is alien to us and so is the language.

A man in vest, pants and suspenders is the classic example - in the US he is dressed smartly in the UK he is in drag.

KTC, you and my husband may be distantly related. His grandfather was of the Maliseet tribe, cousins to the Mi'kmaq.

I have a similar problem in my latest books, where many of the characters are Travelers in Ireland. The tribal customs/attitudes, etc. are subject to research, yes - but there's damn little on them. Especially on things like wedding and funeral rites in Ireland in 1745!

I am corresponding with a member of the Travelers, to get her feedback on things, but still, it's touch and go. I don't want to offend the group by suggesting that selling a daughter off for a horse was acceptable. I know it would have been by non-Traveler standards at the time, but I have no idea within the group. At least I have it causing a conflict/tribal rift. Sigh.