Love Interests

Do you mean a romantic arc?

I tend to dislike characters who exist just to be romantic interests, but I often find romantic attractions, and significant relationships, occurring between important characters in stories I want to tell. It doesn't always happen, but just like in real life, attraction and love often happens when people of the appropriate orientation and genders have things in common and spend a lot of time together.

Sometimes the love affair can become an important (and interesting) part of a story's plot or the characters' development, even if it's not a genre romance.

I really have no interest in a main character's significant other ever being *just* a damsel (or dude) in distress. This doesn't mean they don't get one another out of scrapes, but I don't much care for characters who exist only to show the reader how strong or sexy another one is.

SampleGuy said:

Also the romance between the dwarf and elf woman in The Hobbit movie series is pointless. Why add it?

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My guess is they thought it might make the death of a character who wasn't terribly well developed in the novel more tragic/poignant?

I agree that it seemed tacked on, given that it wasn't present in the novel at all.

And I never had a guy I liked look at me with anything but A. contempt, or B. polite lack of interest until high school. I don't think middle school/junior high is typically a time when most people are all that successful with the opposite sex. Kids that age are interested, sure, but the gap between who they yearn to be with and who will actually give them the time of day is usually quite wide. Maybe the ultra-popular kids have better experiences, but that sure as heck wouldn't have been me or anyone I've known over the years

There's a reason we don't tend to meet our life partners until we're grown up (my first date with the man who became my husband was on my 28th birthday, and we'd already been friends for over a year).

In the book that I'm currently submitting, yes there is a love interest, but she drives the plot as much as the MC does.

In my WIP I don't have a love interest.

Edit: I haven't had a boyfriend for years, not even slightly concerned if I ever did again. Don't see why having one makes you more 'normal' than the increasingly single-and-happy population.

SampleGuy said:

Maybe most heroes don't need love interests to make readers care about them, but some writers probably add love scenes for the hell of it, including in young adult novels. What do you think?

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Forming friendships, falling in love, and/or having sex are part of the normal human condition. If you're going to write well-rounded characters, then they should have relationships of one sort or another with other people. Doesn't mean you have to turn your story into a romance, but neither does it mean that a romantic relationship must be tacked on just because. Keep it real and credible for the character.

I never had a romantic experience when I was a teenager in middle school. I tried to ask some girls out, but they rejected me as if I am an alien being.

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Maybe that's something you can inflict on your character then. Which would help make him seem real.

Sometimes I have a love interest in mind beforehand, but I actually prefer to have a couple of potential pairings and figure out who has the best chemistry during the first draft. That's the one thing I don't like to plan and I'm a hardcore-planner.

I'm not a fan of the planned couple in other people books either. It takes a lot of the tension out when you already know who the MC will end up with after reading the back blurb. This seems to be especially common in YA.

The best romance I read last year was the romance between Logen and Ferro in Abercombies First Law Trilogy. I noticed the chemistry between them immediately, but it was never so obvious that I was sure these two would hook up. Their relationship develop very organic and it was fun following this development to find out if it would lead to a romantic relationship eventually.

Roxxsmom said:

I really have no interest in a main character's significant other ever being *just* a damsel (or dude) in distress. This doesn't mean they don't get one another out of scrapes, but I don't much care for characters who exist only to show the reader how strong or sexy another one is.

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This.

Which is why I don't use the term "love interest" because for me that shunts the character into a rather narrow role. I prefer MCs that have friends, allies, enemies, partners... people who are part of the story, not window dressing for the MC. If there's a love connection as well, great.

SampleGuy said:

Have you ever gave your main character a love interest?

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Some stories require them, others don't. The first book I wrote, which is a YA fantasy, didn't have romance. When my agent started subbing it, a few editors came back and complained about the lack of romance, so I edited it to add romance for a side character. I was quite firm with the decision not to give the MC a romance because I felt it didn't suit her. The third book I wrote is a YA suspense, and the romance is central to the plot, so there was no question about leaving it out.

Just like everything else, I feel like romance should be included to fulfill a clear purpose, whether it be to give the characters more depth, or to give a new angle to the plot, or to generate more conflict which has to do with the plot. I've come across romances that feel tacked on, especially in YA, which is one of the reasons why I refused to add romance to my first book...maybe to my detriment, but ah well. The plot was focused on friendship, dammit. Romance would've just detracted from it all.

Of course, characters being in love isn't always a positive plot point. Sometimes it's a complication. Think about Eowyn and Aragorn. He's not interested because he might be going off to die and he's already in love with Arwen. Despite trying to let Eowyn down gently, she's hurt. In fact, that's one of the key factors in her putting on armor and sneaking off to fight. Which in turn is extremely important.

Naturally there are folks who aren't interested in relationships of any kind (think Sherlock Holmes) but that conflict between their desire to not have friends or lovers and the desire of those around them to cultivate human connections is a part of the momentum of the plot.

Which is why ignoring that aspect of being human seems odd to me. It's not that every character has to be interested in lovers or friends, but even if they aren't there's usually someone else in their life who is. (And, quite frankly, friends are lovers by a different name. This is why buddy cop and romance movies have essentially the same beats.)

I have several characters who struggle with how to be friends with other people, while the romantic interest is working hard at being a friend/lover and it makes for great conflict. Even if I didn't choose to resolve it with the characters getting together, it would be great conflict.

Aggy, didn't date anyone 'til mid-college years

Albedo said:

I don't get this. Any and all novels? What about a plot that makes little or no room for any relationship to develop? Say, a fast-paced thriller set in a war zone? i can think of lots of plot situations where it would be difficult if not unintentionally hilarious to shoehorn in a romantic subplot.

What about characters who are happily single? Last time we had one of these threads there was an assertion that if your MC is single, well they'd better not be at the end of the book or no editor will give you the time of day. I'd find that really disheartening, if I didn't think it was tosh. I like stories where the single MC completes a character arc without hooking up.

and FWIW, these threads always make me uncomfortable when they include assertions about what kinds of personalities/desires are 'odd' or have something 'excised' from them.

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I was going to quote select parts from this but couldn't find something to cut so I'm leaving it all in.

And then I want to add a healthy THANK YOU for saying it. I guess people don't realize what they're implying when they say not having a romance angle/element to someone's life is not 'realistic' as I happen to know quite a few people where a 'love interest' isn't at the top of their priority list of things important in their life.

In fact, I manage to go whole days, weeks even, with no thought of my romantic life, or lack thereof, nor do I feel incomplete by not having someone I'm 'interested' in.

And if, in the event, I happen to see a hot body that is wow, it more often than not gets a brief 'wow, hot body' moment in my head and then it's gone, never having impacted my day nor does it really go on to prove anything other than I noticed.

If we are supposed to be focusing on things in the narrative that further the plot or further the story, I'm not sure how one brief three word throw away thought really does either, yet it seems to be in great demand or people won't think a character is 'fully realized'.

BethS said:

Forming friendships, falling in love, and/or having sex are part of the normal human condition. If you're going to write well-rounded characters, then they should have relationships of one sort or another with other people. Doesn't mean you have to turn your story into a romance, but neither does it mean that a romantic relationship must be tacked on just because. Keep it real and credible for the character.

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I agree but I have to say no one is saying that characters can't have meaningful relationships with others. The subject here seems to be the romantic angle and that's where I'm tripping up really hard here.

As for the tacked on just because part....

Putputt said:

a few editors came back and complained about the lack of romance, so I edited it to add romance for a side character.

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This kind of thinking on the part of editors really irritates me. ZOMG MUST HAVE LOVE INTEREST.



One of my favorite (recent) fantasies had a shoehorned in romantic 'angle'. I keep meaning to write the author and ask him what is up with this? Did the editor tell him to include something so people would believe this guy is a 'well-rounded character' for him to have two sentences dedicated to having thoughts of wanting to bed someone while he was in the middle of a damn chase sequence where people are howling for his head and painful and slow death? Because wow, it stuck out like a turd in a punch bowl.

It was mentioned that one time in the whole book and never mentioned again. Never.

Holy tacked on romantic tension, Batman.

My POV is this: scifi and fantasy exist to provide stories that happen in weird or out-there situations. Sometimes there aren't any human characters. In such a situation, the reader/watcher appreciates being given a touchstone of something familiar and desirable to latch onto amidst the weirdness. It gives them a place to "belong" in the world, which makes the world feel more possible, more real.

I can think of three quick ways to achieve that:

1. Present a comfortable family/home situation. Hobbits at home in the Shire, the Stark family together at Winterfell, or Luke being a whiny teenager on the farm are examples.

2. Give the characters a sense of humor. Firefly and the original Star Trek do this, and Star Wars too.

3. Or, and here's the answer to your question, insert romance. Star Wars also does this.

So there's my reasoning for including a romantic sub-plot in a book that isn't otherwise about romance. It's human. It makes the reader feel at home.

bearilou said:

I happen to know quite a few people where a 'love interest' isn't at the top of their priority list of things important in their life.

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At college, apparently there were debates about whether I am capable of allowing such things anywhere near my priority list, so I completely agree with this.

Now I've outed my secret identity if anyone involved ever reads this. Oops.

Holy tacked on romantic tension, Batman.

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At that level, I hesitate even to refer to it as tension.

Katharine Tree said:

Give the characters a sense of humor. Firefly

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And now I've got Firefly quotes flying through my head. I should add that Firefly also had romantic subplots in addition to humor, so there's your point three.

The familial elements mentioned in point one are also involved (Which goes back to the earlier comments and discussion about non-romantic relationships).

bearilou said:

I was going to quote select parts from this but couldn't find something to cut so I'm leaving it all in.

And then I want to add a healthy THANK YOU for saying it. I guess people don't realize what they're implying when they say not having a romance angle/element to someone's life is not 'realistic' as I happen to know quite a few people where a 'love interest' isn't at the top of their priority list of things important in their life.

In fact, I manage to go whole days, weeks even, with no thought of my romantic life, or lack thereof, nor do I feel incomplete by not having someone I'm 'interested' in.

And if, in the event, I happen to see a hot body that is wow, it more often than not gets a brief 'wow, hot body' moment in my head and then it's gone, never having impacted my day nor does it really go on to prove anything other than I noticed.

If we are supposed to be focusing on things in the narrative that further the plot or further the story, I'm not sure how one brief three word throw away thought really does either, yet it seems to be in great demand or people won't think a character is 'fully realized'.

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No problem. I think it's useful to occasionally remind people that human relationships are immeasurably diverse, and romantic love is just one form of attachment. And you can fall anywhere on the romance scale from 'I fall head over heels for all brunettes' to 'pass, thanks'. All of these positions are normal, human, and entirely okay!

It's universal for humans to form bonds, except maybe for extreme outliers like low-functioning sociopaths. It's not universal that everyone will fall in love during a particularly plotworthy phase of their existence, so I don't see why we should make it mandatory for our characters.

This kind of thinking on the part of editors really irritates me. ZOMG MUST HAVE LOVE INTEREST.



One of my favorite (recent) fantasies had a shoehorned in romantic 'angle'. I keep meaning to write the author and ask him what is up with this? Did the editor tell him to include something so people would believe this guy is a 'well-rounded character' for him to have two sentences dedicated to having thoughts of wanting to bed someone while he was in the middle of a damn chase sequence where people are howling for his head and painful and slow death? Because wow, it stuck out like a turd in a punch bowl.

It was mentioned that one time in the whole book and never mentioned again. Never.

Holy tacked on romantic tension, Batman.

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I learned a new word for this recently: amatonormativity, "the assumption that a central, exclusive, amorous relationship is normal for humans, in that it is a universally shared goal, and that such a relationship is normative, in the sense that it should be aimed at in preference to other relationship types".

And to merry Hell with it. I've no problem with romantic subplots, but I want to read more about asexuals, demis, platonics, Just Friends, Just Friends with Benefits, fuckbuddies, and other fascinating, well-rounded people. Romance is not the be-all and end-all of human love, but the dominant culture puts so much emphasis on it that all other bonds are marginalised. If we want to reflect the diversity of real people in our work we need to realise this, IMO.


If there is a consensus in this thread, I think it's the same one we come to whenever we discuss characterisation: if a romantic relationship would be true to your character and suit your story, then go for it. But no-one should feel they need to shoehorn their characters into a romance just because, if it wouldn't suit.

I have a story where when I started out I purposely didn't want to concentrate on the romantic aspect. There was mention of it, but that was as far as I wanted it to go.

Then the more I wrote the more I realized I needed to REALLY up the romance factor. It was a pivotal line to the story and the way I currently had it made it feel watered down. But you see, these two characters were literally destined to be together. So I had vamp it up, much to my dismay.

Albedo said:

No problem. I think it's useful to occasionally remind people that human relationships are immeasurably diverse, and romantic love is just one form of attachment. And you can fall anywhere on the romance scale from 'I fall head over heels for all brunettes' to 'pass, thanks'. All of these positions are normal, human, and entirely okay!

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Exactly -- your cast should reflect that too by being all along the rainbow (ETA and ofc how you feel about romance may change over the course of months or years, or depending on situation, and you should reflect that too). But if your cast ALL go to one extreme or another (all totes in love, or all completely oblivious) it looks weird*. Like the author missed something.


*Unless you have a cast of one or two.

Mr Flibble said:

Exactly -- your cast should reflect that too by being all along the rainbow (ETA and ofc how you feel about romance may change over the course of months or years, or depending on situation, and you should reflect that too). But if your cast ALL go to one extreme or another (all totes in love, or all completely oblivious) it looks weird*. Like the author missed something.


*Unless you have a cast of one or two.

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Hmmm...I'm still not sure how I feel about that. It reads like the same arguments I used to hear way back in the day in fanfiction when there would be stories with exclusively all gay characters featured in the story and people would shout that it's not a realistic mix.

Maybe a whole world of XYZ type of character but I think it stands to reason there may be cases where birds of a feather are all flocking together and the predominant XYZ type is not out of place.

That's true I suppose.

Tricky, innit?

I suppose I'm thinking more of fantasy where you tend to get massive casts. If every Game of Thrones character was asexual, or gushingly romantic, it'd be weird. I'd want to know why. If however, in such a book they are a range between those two extremes, or are sometimes romantic and not others, that seems more realistic. To me anyway

Like I say though, if you have a smaller cast then it's less of an issue.

ETA: With your example re LGBT casts, I'm not sure that romantic and non romantic people group together in quite the same way? I could ofc be wrong, but it's not something I've really seen? It also reads to me like a call against diversity in casts. Which seems weird to me but hey ho.

Personally, I really dislike the so called "Love Interests" like many people said in this thread already. They bore me from the get-go. I can stand them in some TV shows, but less and less so, to be perfectly honest. I like substance in all characters, I want the love, but I want it to be complicated and not so predictable. I want it coming from both sides, and preferably in different ways to make it more interesting

One of my worries for the novel I'm working on was that one character would look like the typical love interest to the protagonist, so I put special effort into establishing issues with such conclusion as soon as possible Though I guess if someone tried, they could still find a way to perceive it through the typical trope here if they assume some things (which they may, it's open to interpretation in book 1). It's a little tricky to write a very delicate and feminine heroine that the MC finds attractive and not fall into the Love Interest pitfall when her actual role in the story just starts to unfold And when it becomes clear she's not the only 'Love Interest' around (and not the clearly preferred one at all).

But I much MUCH prefer stories that include romantic relations between the MC and other character/s. Yes, I know that asexual people exist, and yes, I'm well aware that there are situations/plots where there's no time for love or complicated relationships. But I guess that's why I don't like full action stories/thrillers very much. To me psychology and relationships (not just romantic, all sorts) are so much more interesting than any sort of adventure, and love comes with psychology so very often. It may be healthy love, it may be a broken hallelujah, but I prefer to read about characters to whom it's an integral part of their lives

Mr Flibble said:

That's true I suppose.

Tricky, innit?

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Yes indeed.

Mr Flibble said:

I suppose I'm thinking more of fantasy where you tend to get massive casts. If every Game of Thrones character was asexual, or gushingly romantic, it'd be weird. I'd want to know why. If however, in such a book they are a range between those two extremes, or are sometimes romantic and not others, that seems more realistic. To me anyway

Like I say though, if you have a smaller cast then it's less of an issue.

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Absolutely. I can't argue with that. The larger the cast, the wider the range of the scales and I think in that case it would be conspicuous in its absence.

Mr Flibble said:

ETA: With your example re LGBT casts, I'm not sure that romantic and non romantic people group together in quite the same way? I could ofc be wrong, but it's not something I've really seen? It also reads to me like a call against diversity in casts. Which seems weird to me but hey ho.

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Certainly, you have to be really careful that you don't over balance anything but I'd think that the issue then becomes larger than romantic entanglements.

I'd say that a case can be made in smaller social circles, or close knit friends/family/relations but certainly not spread in the fictional world as a whole.

But then, where's a writer to draw the line on how far out they'll draw the circle to make sure they're diverse or all-inclusive.

What a tight rope we walk as writers, trying to find balance and still stay true to the story.

Almost like this writing gig ain't easy!

I feel the need to clarify that I don't expect every story to have a romantic interest. But the SF/F/H genres get a lot of pushback from certain elements insisting that "love" is never an important plot element. EVER. Which annoys me. (Obviously.)

Love for other people is a part of the majority of human experience, whether we're talking about friends or family or lovers. To my mind, if it's a part of the story being told then it needs to be included for that reason. Just like grief or anger or depression.

It doesn't mean that every story always has to include those things, but when they come up they should be treated as a part of the story, not something to be rushed past because feels aren't plotty enough.

Almost everyone in this thread has said they've had interest in someone at some point in their life, some of us more continually than others. That's why I think it's a "normal" part of human existence, but that's not the same as saying romantic relationships are "normative".

Mr Flibble said:

Exactly -- your cast should reflect that too by being all along the rainbow (ETA and ofc how you feel about romance may change over the course of months or years, or depending on situation, and you should reflect that too). But if your cast ALL go to one extreme or another (all totes in love, or all completely oblivious) it looks weird*. Like the author missed something.


*Unless you have a cast of one or two.

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Agreeance! (Is that a word?)

I'ma bet, though, that there are about a hundred books with the red weirdness, for every one with the green. That's amatonormativity for ya. Amatonormativity means most people wouldn't even realise there's something unrealistic about the red.

Calliea said:

But I much MUCH prefer stories that include romantic relations between the MC and other character/s. Yes, I know that asexual people exist, and yes, I'm well aware that there are situations/plots where there's no time for love or complicated relationships. But I guess that's why I don't like full action stories/thrillers very much. To me psychology and relationships (not just romantic, all sorts) are so much more interesting than any sort of adventure, and love comes with psychology so very often. It may be healthy love, it may be a broken hallelujah, but I prefer to read about characters to whom it's an integral part of their lives

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I don't really understand. Love and relationships are an integral part of everyone's lives.

SampleGuy said:

Have you ever gave your main character a love interest?

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Often.

SampleGuy said:

If so, why?

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Because it defines the character. Very few of my characters, main or otherwise, have more than a very generic physical description. They could be anybody, hopefully someone the reader identifies. But real people have love interests that define them, so my fictional characters do as well. They often have families, personal triumphs and tragedies, financial troubles and religious outlooks. As do real people.

I tell stories. Stories have characters. Characters have character traits. Otherwise, the character isn't believable and the story isn't believable. Love interests are simply another character trait.

Jeff

pandaponies said:

My LIs are usually the MC's partner-in-plot-affairs. They are invaluable to the story to the point to where they function almost as a second MC (or, really, not even "almost" except for the fact that I tend to write in close/limited third; sometimes I DO choose alternating viewpoints but I digress). I like the "two people are drawn together by this catastrophic situation and become good friends and bond via trying to save [the world/humanity/whatever] together and happen to fall in love" type of love.

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This. In my steampunk WIP they become a Battle Couple long before they become an actual couple (haven't actually gotten them to that point). She is a young widow who still misses her husband and also doesn't want to give up the bit of independence that gives her, and he was dumped by his fiancee a month or two before they meet. They clash on politics and as the more conventional of the two, he's pretty much playing Sancho to her Quixote. Most comparisons I can think of for their relationship are male/male except for modern examples like Mulder & Scully or Benson & Stabler.

Love. Well it is a part of most people's lives, and it is something most of us want and value, so it seems to follow that it will show up in novels. Myself, I haven't written anything where the love interest takes center stage. My casts of characters are male heavy, and I confess that, so far, the females have not gotten a great deal of page space. However, neither are they damsels in distress. I have another book in the works that is written mostly from a (strong) female's POV. When she is small, and dying from injuries and exposure, she is saved. Yes, by males. Later there will be lust interest and a friend she considers marrying, but that is part of her story, not something thrown in to make the book more interesting.

On the other hand, I like reading books about cold, uncaring sociopaths.

WeaselFire said:

But real people have love interests that define them, so my fictional characters do as well.

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I don't. Does that make me not a real person?

WeaselFire said:

They often have families, personal triumphs and tragedies, financial troubles and religious outlooks. As do real people.

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Which is not the same as a love interest.

bearilou said:

And then I want to add a healthy THANK YOU for saying it. I guess people don't realize what they're implying when they say not having a romance angle/element to someone's life is not 'realistic' as I happen to know quite a few people where a 'love interest' isn't at the top of their priority list of things important in their life.

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I feel that this is such an important point. Especially with YA, it angers me that for many editors, there MUST be romance. It's like raising readers to expect romance in every genre. BWARGH.

I was so frustrated with the whole "MUST HAVE ROMANCE" response from editors that I vowed that the romance in my book would not end well. As it turned out, it became a subplot which added conflict to the main plot, so that turned out well for me...and I had a "Mwahaha" moment when I wrote the LI betrayal scene.

Anywhooo, going back to the discussion, I feel that there are so many other different types of relationship that are just as interesting as romantic love. Just because a character isn't interested in romantic love doesn't make them a soul-less husk of a human being. Sibling love, parental love, love between friends...I treasure books that explore these relationships when I come across them.

Putputt said:

I was so frustrated with the whole "MUST HAVE ROMANCE" response from editors that I vowed that the romance in my book would not end well. As it turned out, it became a subplot which added conflict to the main plot, so that turned out well for me...and I had a "Mwahaha" moment when I wrote the LI betrayal scene.

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NO ONE PUTS HIPPO IN A CORNER!

...and you look fabulous in that dress, dahlink.

Putputt said:

Anywhooo, going back to the discussion, I feel that there are so many other different types of relationship that are just as interesting as romantic love. Just because a character isn't interested in romantic love doesn't make them a soul-less husk of a human being. Sibling love, parental love, love between friends...I treasure books that explore these relationships when I come across them.

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Yes pleaseandthankyou.