Question for Pantsers

Yes I pantse, and yes things that happen later in the novel inevitably require details from earlier on to be modified. Because I'm afraid of losing track of them, I always go back to fix them right away, before I continue writing the story. So far it hasn't taken me long and hasn't sapped my storytelling momentum.

My current WIP is so big that there are parts of the plot which I recognize as being underdeveloped. Fixing that will require a lot of thought, so I have let them be while I finish the first draft.

I'm doing the same thing now with a fantasy novel I'm expanding from 54K to around 85K. Lots of adding and subtracting. Plus, several revelations about why certain plot points had to go or stay.

I take the same approach to retcon you do. However, there are 'pantsers' who I would call 'lookback' writers. That is, they write what is happening now based only on what has happened before. If you do that, logically, retcon is eliminated. I am not there yet, btw.

I don't change what's already been written. If some new idea doesn't fit with the current story, it goes into my Idea File for some other story.

I'm sort of a semi-pantser . I usually plan somethings, such as the first opening scenes, some points of change throughout the novel and the ending (although all of that is open to change as the novel progresses). I do run into issues that you describe (such as deciding to change a character/situation from earlier in the book when I'm progressing). I always have a notes Word document for each draft I do and I usually also have one for the next draft. When it happens that I know I want to change or omit something from a draft, I will note it in the subsequent draft notes (for example, if I want to change a character from draft 1, I will note it in the Draft 2 notes). Then, when I get to draft 2, I go through the notes and highlight the changes I noted and as I go through the draft chapter by chapter, I make a small note at the top of each chapter as to what I need to do to that chapter to make the changes (if it's applicable) and then I go through the draft again and make the changes.

It's kind of a messy way to work, I'll admit, but it works for me.

Djuna

shadowwalker said:

I don't change what's already been written. If some new idea doesn't fit with the current story, it goes into my Idea File for some other story.

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I'll find something like that my character would be well served in a scene by say, having a knife. So I'll go back and add a note at the beginning of a relevant earlier scene like "have Mary get a knife from Tom before she gets on the boat"

Strangely, I may write an idea that fits badly with what has happened before, but at the time it seems to me to fit very well with the existing story...

nastyjman said:

I may have phrased it wrong, but it's more of a this-character-is-limp-so-off-with-her-head kind of change that happens in the later parts of the story.

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No, I still don't do that. Characters may disappear, but it's within the bounds of 'reality' the story has presented, and hopefully not because they're "limp". My goal is to make sure characters fulfill their duties, so I pay close to attention to each one I introduce.

Depends on what the idea is, whether or not I go back and make a note or do a full rewrite.

When I decided to change the motivations of a major character in my present MIP, I went back and rewrote all her scenes because it was too big a change and impacted too much of what I still had to write to just make a note.

But if I've got a lame character that I'm eliminating or combining, I'm just as likely to leave myself a note to do on the next pass. Or if confirming facts I may've screwed up gets a note. Basically, anything that doesn't majorly impact what I still have to write will get a note. I will also make notes for foreshadowing needs (though I usually find that I've already done that work but hadn't been conscious of it--always very cool).

Sometimes when I get stuck going forward, I will go through the file and start fixing all the notes. Usually that kind of problem-solving will unblock whatever and I can go forward on the main progress again.

No, I'd go out of my mind trying something like "retcon". I don't put a character in, major or minor, unless the story needs that character at the moment. When a story does need the character at the moment, I'm not going to change anything later on that would remove the need for that character. I always look back at what I've already written, and never, ever ahead.

There's no way I'd want to tackle a second draft with those kind of breadcrumbs scattered throughout the novel. That's a lot more work than I want to do, or need to do.

I rewrite, revise, and edit each page as I write it. I get it as perfect as I possibly can, and I make it match teh story I've already written perfectly. Leaving even one bread crumb could screw up the entire story, make a complete rewrite necessary. You just don't know how much one little thing can change until after you start the rewrite.

I may have to go over the same page ten or fifteen times, but when I'm finished with that page, I'm finished with it forever. When I reach the end of the novel, the novel is also finished forever.

Jamesaritchie said:

I may have to go over the same page ten or fifteen times, but when I'm finished with that page, I'm finished with it forever. When I reach the end of the novel, the novel is also finished forever.

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I hope one day to be able to do this.

At the moment, I make notes of any reasonable changes, ones that don't drastically alter the story, as I write then apply them on the the next draft. I usually do three to four drafts. After making the notes, I continue to write as though I'd made the changes.

I'm more of a plotter but I still have to go back and edit for retcon. I think many writers find that their stories change somewhat from beginning to end, whether in obvious plot ways or in less obvious tonal changes. (Aren't there authors who promote writing as quickly as possible to help prevent these subtle shifts?)

For my current WIP I wrote in a word doc and added comments to the margins wherever needed. My approach is to do no editing while drafting, and address notes in revisions, which is mostly done beginning to end, biggest to smallest (big stuff on 1st pass, lesser on 2nd).

Kudos to Layla for defining lookback--that's a great, useful term!

Every novel is different, but on the whole I'm a pantser.

What you do is similar to the fast draft method. Other than my current WIP, which is being a wily one, that's usually my way to go. I'll write from beginning to end without going back. When I realize I need to change something (e.g. removing a side character), I make a note at the end of the chapter, and continue writing as though I've already made that change.

When I finish the first draft, I then go back to all my notes (usually written in all caps even though track changes would probably make my life easier), and make those rewrites before starting on the actual revision.

Most of the time words come more quickly as I'm engaging with the plot and thinking about what comes next. Going back to rewrite stalls that process out.*


*Caveat that I'm actually doing the opposite with the current WIP. I'm going over each chapter as I finish it, tweaking, revising, etc. It's what I needed for this book, but it's a very different (slower) process.

I never do an outline and rarely know how the story's going to end when I start writing it (or what's even going to happen after the next couple of scenes a lot of the time).

Yep I go back and edit stuff all the time as I develop the story. Usually for stuff like bringing out a particular aspect of a character or adding in something that turns out to be important later in the story.

If you're a true pantser, going back in the ms to fix continuity problems, foreshadow events, and even change some scenes is pretty much an inevitable consequence.

Much of my best work comes from those unexpected moments of inspiration – what if the woman turns out to be his sister? What if the man he thought had been killed was actually still alive and part of the conspiracy against him? Etc., etc.

If it's a quick fix, such as the aforementioned knife that comes out of nowhere, I usually go back and fix it on the spot. If it's a little more complicated, I make a note in a separate word file and deal with it later. But if it's a major thing, I always go back and rewrite it before continuing. Because a), the rewrite may give you other ideas, and b) and more importantly, the rewrite may unexpectedly prove to pose new problems to the plot that you hadn't thought about.

This is definitely a less than efficient way to write a novel. But as a novelist, you should be looking at creativity and the quality of the finished product. How efficient your writing process is should not be your main consideration, unless of course you're on contract and have to produce three novels in a year. Like every other question about writing, if you find something that works for you, personally, that's all you should worry about.

And if done properly, this kind of patchwork rewriting can produce a story that is seamless with the "fixes" being invisible to the reader.

I'm a pantser, but rather than go back and leave notes, I just go back and change it. With my last two novels I've come upon a technique that seems to be serving me well. I write a chapter, walk away for a couple hours, then re-read and edit, and send it off to my beta overnight. She reads it over and gives me comments like 'like this part!' or 'he did what?' rather than real edits. Sounds silly, but that really gives me the motivation to write quickly, knowing I have an audience who's waiting and interested. Nothing like instant gratification.

Much of my best work comes from those unexpected moments of inspiration – what if the woman turns out to be his sister? What if the man he thought had been killed was actually still alive and part of the conspiracy against him? Etc., etc.

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This sounds very close to how I write. I have no idea how my current novel will end, even though I'm nearly halfway finished, and just go with what seems like it will head in a good direction. Sometimes that leads me astray, but I've found it to be entirely enjoyable. I did have a situation a couple days ago where I had a marathon 7k word writing session one day, sent it off, sat down the write the next day... and realized that it all sucked. The plot twist that seemed so great the day before was terrible beyond belief and I couldn't go anywhere with it, a trouble of just writing down what seems interesting. I had to re-write majority of the previous day's work before I could keep going. I guess that makes me entirely a lookback?

I'm a pantser, and yes, I start with the end in mind and ask how it happened. I quite often find that things change as I find out more, and I tend to stick pins there with a note to say "fix it in edits".

And yay to writing in longhand. And pencil. I love it

rugcat said:

If you're a true pantser, going back in the ms to fix continuity problems, foreshadow events, and even change some scenes is pretty much an inevitable consequence.

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I guess most of the pansters I know are false pansters. I don't know a one who routinely does any of this.

Jamesaritchie said:

I guess most of the pansters I know are false pansters. I don't know a one who routinely does any of this.

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Pleased to meet you, James