How Long Does It Take To Settle Into A New WIP?

I take a long time to daydream about an idea (usually about a year), and then I outline and start writing it--by the time I start writing it, I'm into it. I usually hit my first wall of self-doubt at around 30K, actually!

I struggled struggled struggled for about 70-80K (it's a guess since I write by hand) and wasn't - wait - each and every sentence to a lot of effort. I loved the idea from the start but it was very difficult to write. I kept at it because I wanted to finish it. It took me about 18 months to write my (est) 80K

Well, if you mean excited about it, then I start off excited from the very beginning. On at least one or two projects, you can kind of tell that the initial rush made my writing a little more incisive. But I generally stay excited all the way through a project, even if there are problems to work through. That's part of the fun.

Now, if you mean how long does it take for me to become comfortable with a project and really "get" where it's going and who the characters are . . . usually about halfway through is when all the pieces begin to click. This usually means some minor edits to the beginning to make it all fit together.

jaksen said:

Usually before I even start writing I'm deep into it because it wanders around in my head for a few days: dialogue, a title, then that's all I can think of when driving, or taking a walk, etc.

When I sit down to start writing I'm already (emotionally) committed to the story.

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I'm sort of like this as well. There are times when someone will say something and I've got this "Aha!", that's a great concept for a story moment. Or, WOW! That's a great title for a book (to which I almost immediately begin working the concept for same, talking out loud and bouncing ideas off of whomever happened to have the misfortune to inspire the tangent.)

Subsequent to that, I get to know the people, get a feel for them. I talk to them (Yes! I really do, though mostly in my mind. (oooooh! The voices in my head!!!)) We have some really involved conversations sometimes. And, thankfully, I have some wonderful support

In any event, once I sit down to start writing, I pretty much know the basic skeleton of the story, the characters, et al. And, if I don't like them or the way their story is falling out (or into place as it were), I don't talk 'to' them anymore. Basically, I have to love them in order to spend time with them so I really do know their story or I don't write.

So... How long does it take for me to "settle in" to a WIP? Honestly? Before it's even in progress or I don't start.

I don't make up the stories, I just report them.

WornTraveler said:

. . .

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "couple sentences" replies. I suppose if they write shorts that might be enough, but I can't imagine someone could really truthfully say they've caught their stride on the first page of a full length novel.

How many finished MS's do all you two-sentence prodigies? *Smirk* No offense, but that sounds like the comment of someone who either hasn't finished many stories, or hasn't tried all that many. I doubt any of the greats, current or past- Hemingway, Thompson, Steinbeck, Rowling, Patterson, McCarthy, King, whoever you liked- would say with a straight face that they had a complete grasp on their MS within the first sentences.

Sounds a little pretentious to me if these people are writing novels, at least. I would disregard those replies- 30k seems a perfectly adequate place to draw the line.

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Yep, that's me, "pretentious".

I was surprised that so many people take 30k to "settle in". I wouldn't be able to stay with a project that long. I admire your tenacity . . . but not your attitude. And, I'll be glad to have you disregard my replies.

My 3 MSs are over 120k, btw.

WornTraveler said:

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "couple sentences" replies. I suppose if they write shorts that might be enough, but I can't imagine someone could really truthfully say they've caught their stride on the first page of a full length novel.

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I thought I answered this thread. With this particular gem of insight I think now I have to answer.

I'm into my story and in stride before I write the first word.

Have I finished a manuscript? Yep. It weighed in at 495K words. Yes, you read that correctly. Four hundrend and ninety five thousand words. That worked differently than my current work in progress, a follow on to the first, that I estimate will reach 400K. Including the 22K outline, I'm at 250K words.

I was in stride with that story before the first word of the first chapter met the page. I didn't have anything but a very rough outline when I started. I got to a scene I wasn't sure about or any of what happened afterwards so I stopped writing and fleshed out my outline before I continued.

Some people do things differently than others. Do NOT expect everyone to do things like you do them.

I'm actually a bit envious of everyone who can say "after couple of sentences". For me, it takes a long while because I need to know my characters to feel anything for the actual story, and it's not enough to just see them in action. I need the spark of something uniquely them, something that makes them special and interesting to me. And that takes about 20 000 words of nonsense. Hopefully at some point this will change, and I'll get into the characters' heads sooner.

I've never understood why some people tend to think that everyone should be like them or they are not honest or doing something correctly. I find it absolutely fascinating that we're different.

Yeah, I guess it does depend on how one defines "settled".

For me, I'm very character driven, so when I have a little writing session on the bus to work or back home, I know the type of person and even their name, motivation and scars of the MC before I write a single word. That's when I get settled into a piece of writing that will hopefully become something more. So for me, it's right away. If I'm diligent and not caring what words I use (meaning no self-editing) I can have maybe 4 sheets of paper filled up front and back when I walk back in my front door from work. By that time, I may have only a fuzzy idea of the ending, but I've gelled with the MC so to speak, and for me that's means I'm settled into the story.

gothicangel said:

Anyone else stuck with an idea this long, even though it didn't seem to be working? Did it work out like it has with me, or have you trunked an idea further down the line?

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Wanted to highlight the question so it doesn't get lost in what's being asked.

WornTraveler said:

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "couple sentences" replies. I suppose if they write shorts that might be enough, but I can't imagine someone could really truthfully say they've caught their stride on the first page of a full length novel.

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You were doing okay with your response until you got here.

First, the question was how long we hang with something if it didn't seem to be working, not catching their stride.

Even so, some people do come to the page ready to write, having worked out a lot of things before they put down word one. And I'm not just talking about outliners, but those who don't outline but who still ruminate and think and fiddle and play with their concepts in their head.

Because, you know, not everyone is you.

WornTraveler said:

How many finished MS's do all you two-sentence prodigies? *Smirk* No offense, but that sounds like the comment of someone who either hasn't finished many stories, or hasn't tried all that many. I doubt any of the greats, current or past- Hemingway, Thompson, Steinbeck, Rowling, Patterson, McCarthy, King, whoever you liked- would say with a straight face that they had a complete grasp on their MS within the first sentences.

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This steamrolls right into RYFW. It doesn't work for you, you can't possibly conceive that someone may write differently than you. That's cool. No one is asking you to believe. You can, however, cut the belittling sarcasm. It's not really necessary for the discussion.

WornTraveler said:

Sounds a little pretentious to me if these people are writing novels, at least. I would disregard those replies- 30k seems a perfectly adequate place to draw the line.

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Your opinion, you're certainly entitled to it. I'm pretty sure those who you are snidely disregarding are also pretty free to disregard you as well. So it all balances in the wash. It's the snide part of it that is a problem.


In answer to gothicangel's original question, I find that if I haven't fallen into a groove with my WIP by the 25k mark, the idea is still only half baked and I'll back out and see where I'm starting to wan in the story, hopefully to punch it up a bit. But I rarely trunk things for long. More like...put them back in the incubator and let them mature in my brainmeats for a while longer.

WornTraveler said:

Surprised to see several other people mentioned 30k.

Reading the topic's title "30k" was my instant answer. I write novels (90k edited length generally, sometimes as high as 120k in first draft), so the mark seems to be about 1/4 of the rough's length or 1/3 of the final product's length.

This is also where I usually abandon projects which I've either executed poorly or am just not totally digging. If I haven't burrowed deep into the characters' heads by then, and become personally invested in their plights, I'm probabl not going to (and that's as the author- if I am not digging it, I can't imagine readers would). At that point I'm not likely to continue, and if I do, it's usually with a rewrite.

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "couple sentences" replies. I suppose if they write shorts that might be enough, but I can't imagine someone could really truthfully say they've caught their stride on the first page of a full length novel.

How many finished MS's do all you two-sentence prodigies? *Smirk* No offense, but that sounds like the comment of someone who either hasn't finished many stories, or hasn't tried all that many. I doubt any of the greats, current or past- Hemingway, Thompson, Steinbeck, Rowling, Patterson, McCarthy, King, whoever you liked- would say with a straight face that they had a complete grasp on their MS within the first sentences.

Sounds a little pretentious to me if these people are writing novels, at least. I would disregard those replies- 30k seems a perfectly adequate place to draw the line.

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Sorry to disagree and chuckle away at this but as to the first sentence I know where I'm going and I know exactly where I'm headed. My novels tend to be between 60k and 100k in length and I'm signed up with three publishers, I don't mean that to come across as big headed in any way but 24 novels signed up think that one liner works.

Most new WIPs are things I've been thinking about for a long time. And for only one of them I didn't know how the first scene was going to go. So for me, I go into a project knowing how it's going to sound, character arcs, etc before I even start. The only problem is the constant switching between WIPs, then it takes me a day or two of writing to get going.

WornTraveler said:

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "couple sentences" replies. I suppose if they write shorts that might be enough, but I can't imagine someone could really truthfully say they've caught their stride on the first page of a full length novel.

How many finished MS's do all you two-sentence prodigies? *Smirk* No offense, but that sounds like the comment of someone who either hasn't finished many stories, or hasn't tried all that many..

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I really start to worry if the first two or three sentences don't grab me and hold me. I rewrite page one over and over until it does grab and hold me. My experience is that every idea works, if the opening works, and the opening only works if the first few lines work.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "catching my stride", but if you mean got the hang of it, I'm interested in the story, and don't have any trouble agonizing over the writing, then I'd damned if I'll wait for the 30k point.

Just how many sentences do you think a reader who picks up your novel in a bookstore is going to give you?

And you shouldn't cherry pick your "greats". Some of the best writers out there star fast and finish fast, and don't tell me a writer who writes a classic in two weeks or less took a long time to "grasp" his novel, whatever than means.

But like King, Bradbury, and a lot of other writers, I don't plot. I just write, so I have no clue what you're even talking about when you say it takes you 30k to fully grasp your novel. I don't have a clue what will happen on the next page, and don't want to grasp the novel as a whole, or in any other way. Sounds like a really slow, painful, unnecessary amount of trouble, to me.

As for how many novels I've finished, the answer is twenty-two, with eighteen sold, and three in the pipeline.

I've also never had to abandon a project. Heinlein's Rule number two. Finish What You Start.

You shouldn't assume that your way is the only way, much less that all the "greats" are just like you. Some very good writers over the years have written a novel a month. One write a novel every eleven days for a year. You don't do this by not "grasping" things until you hit 30k, or by abandoning projects because they don't "work".

Kallithrix said:

I can't remember, because I've been writing my current WIP for 10 years! The one I started before that was fanfiction, and I was totally guns blazing about it for about 10 chapters (maybe 50k, as I write chapters between 4 and 6k). Then I realised it was an absolute mess. I had a great beginning, a really poignant end, but absolutely no idea how to connect the two. The middle just kinda sagged and went nowhere. Trunked it.

I don't even remember how I started the current WIP, although this will be its third rewrite. About 80% of the story is totally new material, just the characters and romantic subplot are the same. I guess I hit my stride around chapter 3 (not including the prologue). But it's not a consistent thing for me. I lose and regain my stride at some point every chapter

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my first book took me 10 years to write. the first draft 8.5 and the second draft 1.5 to write (completely rewritten)

then i gave it up and started a new book which i am fiddling around with before the 2nd draft.

you may just want to trash that 1st book.

It starts with the idea/concept for me. If I like it, I'll write an outline for it. If I still like it afterwords, then I'm into it––I love it––and I won't stop until it's as perfect as I deem it will ever be. I can't move on to another story if I'm in love with another. Luckily for me, the first novel I ever wrote, I fell in love with.

Poet of Gore said:

my first book took me 10 years to write. the first draft 8.5 and the second draft 1.5 to write (completely rewritten)

then i gave it up and started a new book which i am fiddling around with before the 2nd draft.

you may just want to trash that 1st book.

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Uh, the book got her an agent if I'm not mistaken. Why would she want to trash an already agented book? That just seems like a waste of both her and the angent's time to me.

I usually don't start writing a book until I'm already in love with an idea or character. I brainstorm some about what will happen, but then I jump right in and discover a lot about the world and characters as I write. Usually this isn't a painful struggle for me (any more than normal writing is,) but I'm sure I'll someday run into a book that I have to write my way into. If I end up contracted to do a sequel, for instance.

I tend to run the range of reactions.

I've had stories based entirely on a concept. I'll work on that concept, doing research and even having faces and names pop into my head to fill gaps between the premise and the tale, but sometimes it's a chapter here and another chapter down the road.

On the other hand, sometimes I stare at the blank page and then just start writing. I don't even know where I'm going but I know I can't stop. It borders on automatic writing on days like that. Normally those are short stories that just jump onto the page, desperate to be known.

As a rule I try not to trash any idea. Even if I have that file with four pages in it, it's there. When I have writer's block (worst. affliction. ever.) I go back through those incompletes and read. Sometimes I'll add something to them. Sometimes they inspire me to go back with a different angle on the project I was working on. And other times, I suddenly see a connection between two partial stories ("Funny. Reginald from Story A seems to have a lot in common with Sparthan from random Story B. Maybe Story B is actually part of the backstory to Story A? Yeah...I just change this name here. Turn the duchy into the kingdom I was using over there...")

I never know when my characters are going to show me something I missed.

For me, I think of ideas for months before taking them on. I'll have a few ideas and one always has to win out over the others. Then I get real excited and obsessed with the idea and cant wait to write it. Then...as soon as I actually start writing, I think, oh crap, here we go again. Why do I do this to myself? And then months of hell. Of course there are moments of enjoyment and loving the story, but generally, there is no time I love the story more than just before the moment of beginning to write. And then again right at the end of course. The words on screen can never live up to the picture in your mind.

I'm usually so eager to write that I get started before I'm ready, before things are fleshed out enough. This means I have a lot of projects abandoned at 10k to 30k words. Which is a huge bummer because some of those started with ideas I really liked but went so far off in the wrong direction that I grew to really dislike them.

My one finished manuscript I had my plotting fully done before I started and i think that was what made the difference. I'm not big on notes or outlines but I've learned that doing the works really helps me in the long run.

My current WIP is one that didn't fail, but I just set aside because I hadn't worked it out enough. I've done more thinking on it since then and I can see the big picture better. Hopefully I'll get this one done.

Am I the only one who doesn't write from an idea, a plot, a concept, or a theme?

When I sit down to tell a story, to write a novel, all I know is genre and length. I then think of a title I like that matches the genre. Then decide on a name for the protagonist. Nothing else about him or her, just the name. Then I choose a location, a setting for the story. Then I imagine a horrible situation a person in that time and place could find themselves in.

That's it. The story is how the character handles the situation. I never look ahead to the next page, and I never write myself into a corner because it's all about the situation, and as long as each page I write logically follows the page I wrote before it, all is fine.

But there really is no "idea" for the story, no thought of concept or theme.. I have no idea where the story is going, and certainly no clue how it will end. I don't even know who any of the characters will be until I reach a page that needs a character, so I write a character in.

I've studied the writing method of every writer I've read, and more besides. Going by how fast many have written books after book, almost always as "pansters", I never thought my method of writing was unusual, but I'm starting to wonder.

Rebekkamaria said:

I'm actually a bit envious of everyone who can say "after couple of sentences". For me, it takes a long while because I need to know my characters to feel anything for the actual story, and it's not enough to just see them in action.

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And, yet, sort of the opposite for me. I know my primary characters before I get started. That's what makes me want to write their stories. (sort of an historian, not a creator kind of approach.)

Of course, sometimes it takes me a LOOOONG time to get to know them well enough to report those stories!

Rebekkamaria said:

I've never understood why some people tend to think that everyone should be like them or they are not honest or doing something correctly. I find it absolutely fascinating that we're different.

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I'm totally with you on that one! If everyone was alike, acted alike, thought alike, approached everything the same way... WOW! How boring the world would be!

Jamesaritchie said:

Am I the only one who doesn't write from an idea, a plot, a concept, or a theme?

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Yes...


I think it's strange. Can you honestly say that when you finish writing for the day, not even once in your life have you rested your head on the pillow and let your mind wander and think, "it would be cool if character A did this or said this or met this type of person later in the story?" I would find it hard to believe that you never know anything that's going to happen. You've already admitted that you have a genre, setting, MC name and a big problem before you start writing, and I'd venture to guess at some point before you get to "the end" you at least think ahead a little. How can you not? That's like waking up on a day you have nothing planned. You may just see where the day takes you, but you would also have a few ideas rumbling in the think tank of where the day could lead you depending on weather, etc. Am I wrong?

spikeman4444 said:

Yes...


I think it's strange. Can you honestly say that when you finish writing for the day, not even once in your life have you rested your head on the pillow and let your mind wander and think, "it would be cool if character A did this or said this or met this type of person later in the story?" I would find it hard to believe that you never know anything that's going to happen. You've already admitted that you have a genre, setting, MC name and a big problem before you start writing, and I'd venture to guess at some point before you get to "the end" you at least think ahead a little. How can you not? That's like waking up on a day you have nothing planned. You may just see where the day takes you, but you would also have a few ideas rumbling in the think tank of where the day could lead you depending on weather, etc. Am I wrong?

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Well, pretty much the only time I think about writing at all is when I'm actually writing, or when I'm making a post on a forum like this one. I have too many othe rthings to think about, things I enjoy as much, or more, than writing.

When I plop my head down at night, writing is the last thing on my mind. Several things occupy my mind when I'm away from writing, and none of them involve my stories, or writing in any way. Writing simply doesn't have that level of priority for me.

But I never have a need to think ahead. I spend far too much time and energy looking back. It's almost like reverse plotting. My entire focus is on what I've already written because if I make the page I'm currently writing fit what came before it exactly, looking ahead is not only pointless, it's counterproductive. Looking ahead is how writers paint themselves into corners.

You look ahead, and then you try to write the current story to make that future event happen. In doing so, it's too easy to turn the story away from what has already happened, and then you run into a "What the heck do I do now?" problem.

The situation the character is in at the beginning definitely requires no looking ahead. I resolve it by constantly looking backwards, and by making the page I'm on match whatever has gone before.

Now, every great once in a while, usually when my concentration breaks, I do catch myself look ahead. It doesn't happen often at all, but it does happen. This almost automatically means I will not use whatever it is because I've found that's a trap. If I try to use whatever it is, I have to force the story in that direction, and everything is likely to come off the rails.

There is another kind of story, one that comes to me all at once, full-blown, and ready to write. I know beginning, middle, and ending, and everything between, as soon as it pops into my head. These are usually short stories, but I've also had it happen with a couple of MG novels. Something I see, or do, or hear almost always triggers one of these stories, and it's like my subconscious writes the story in a matter of seconds.

I don't know why these stories happen, or how to make them happen, or how to stop them from happening. They're rare, and I often wish they happened more often because they almost always sell, but they're a mystery.

Jamesaritchie said:

But I never have a need to think ahead. I spend far too much time and energy looking back. It's almost like reverse plotting. My entire focus is on what I've already written because if I make the page I'm currently writing fit what came before it exactly, looking ahead is not only pointless, it's counterproductive. Looking ahead is how writers paint themselves into corners.

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I have to respectfully disagree with this as a general point. It may work for you, but I think that not looking ahead leads writers into corners far more often.

Fake resolutions of a problem can happen to anyone regardless of looking ahead or not. The deus ex machina is, after all, an easy solution. I don't think outlines or looking ahead would result in more of them, either. Having things thought out gives you time to consider possibilities to the problem because ... you know the problem is there.

We all have our writing methods. I couldn't do a story the way you describe. I've tried, actually, and none of them made it all the way through. I need an outline (my version of what I consider an outline) to keep my story flowing forward. I've changed in the middle, I've added story arcs, I've come to unique situations that I've had to work hard to have the characters resolve. The outline gives me a framework.