Resurrecting that old and forgotten manuscript

1. I've heard of stories being taken down for having incest content, but to be honest you're pretty likely to turn off readers quickly with just the thought of it. I don't know for sure, so more knowledgeable people can fill you in here.

2. Spec-fic has been as popular today as it has been for a long time. I don't know where you're getting these thoughts from; go to a book store and look around, a good 75% of the fiction there is contemporary/mainstream.

Crime dramas are popular. Don't worry about the reader base because even if there isn't one, make one.

3. I like to repurpose ideas from past works. I wouldn't just pull something out of the darkness and revise it since I believe my writing has improved, so the entire story would have to be rewritten and reworked to fit my current standards.

Smashwords, in some of its freebies, has some good info on what's acceptable and otherwise.

Its approach to incest and pseudo-incest is interesting. They emphasise that by including these in a novel, the author restricts acceptance by publishers who do not, under any circumstance, either of these.

Seems fair enough to me.

We're back on the difficult topic of censorship, which has swung back and forth over the ages, for longer than the various bibles. It's hard to interpret the current trend, we have a lot worse out there than Fifty Shades and incest does happen, though I'm not sure people really want to read about it, at least not in any graphic detail on every second page.

Going back to a manuscript from two years ago is not really returning to an 'old' one, and again it's a question of debate whether writing improves merely with time.

The fresh and innocent writing before the grammar police started interfering is sometimes better than the polished, absolutely correct material still standing after the hundredth edit.

What's with the tiny font? *squints*

The_Outlaw_Torn said:

A lot of people these days are into science fiction, fantasy, and superhero stuff. It's fine by me. But I see that not a lot of people are into contemporary fiction that deals with pure human drama.

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Five words: The Fault In Our Stars by John Green (oops, that's eight words )

1&2 - I'm not sure about Amazon's policies on the matter but I think the whole "incestuous relationship with uncle" might be enough to put off a ton of readers, which may be reason enough out consider if that element has to stay. It's your story and all, but you've expressed concern over market share...

3 - I've come back to long shelved things a few times, always to re-write from scratch though, never just to edit.

JK Rowling and Martina Cole seem to disprove the theory that you can't resurrect old manuscripts, even after binning them for many years.

Maybe they're special, because when I tried it, it didn't work.

On the incest question, and it's a horrible one, I suggest it would be best to leave it out altogether. The young boy fantasising about shagging his mother is probably far more common than we would like to admit.

I'd leave the incest out unless it's so central to the plot, you can't. In that case, I'd re-work the plot and eliminate the need for the relationship. I know I'd have no interest reading about uncle/nephew incest.

1. I'm into some weird shit, but I don't want to read about an uncle/nephew sexual relationship (or any other kind of incest, especially young/old incest). I don't know what rules Amazon has around this, if any, but I wouldn't read this book.

2. Plenty of audience for mainstream fiction. More for non-incest fiction though, I suspect.

3. No. Mine have stayed in the bin so far.

Personally, I have no great problem in the following specific situations:

1. Both parties are 18+ but I'm not sure how I feel about a situation where one is very significantly older than the other

2. The acts are consensual -- this excludes one having a "power" relationship over the other

I read the other day that they've just discovered an as yet untransposed part of the early bible manuscripts part of the bible most of us are familiar with. We knows that many scholars combined to give us our present bible and it hasn't been amended that much over two thousand years; perhaps only a man called Martin Luther spent many years in a secluded German castle to change it drastically.

Since we are discussing digging up manuscripts from the past, will this one will set up new records?

I suppose we will ncver know, not us ordinary plebs hammering away at our lonely keyboards anyway, but I wonder how much censorship will be needed to make it acceptable to current day standards?

Romangoblets said:

I'd leave the incest out unless it's so central to the plot, you can't. In that case, I'd re-work the plot and eliminate the need for the relationship. I know I'd have no interest reading about uncle/nephew incest.

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Seconded.

Why does the incest need to be there, when you know this is going to severely restrict your market? Even cause you to run afoul of some of the free publishing platforms?

Not only that, but have you considered the negative fallout you might receive due to publishing this sort of thing? People will have strong reactions to it, and they won't hold back from expressing them to you. Are you ready for that? To be called a sick pervert and told you will burn in hell?

If not, I'd suggest you keep this one just for you and the select audience you know will receive it in the spirit it was intended. Publish your next book - and make it incest free

I just want to say 2012 is yesterday from some people's POV. I wrote stories in the 1980's which I occasionally dig out, revise, send off and sell.

But the incestuous element would be a turn-off for many readers, and publishers.

As for the action without a supernatural element? Check out the best-seller lists. There are plenty of mysteries, thrillers, war dramas, crime dramas, etc., which do not include superheroes and/or supernatural elements. I've recently read a few new books with action/mystery that have no supernatural or superhero elements. 'Cobra' by Deon Meyer, was one, great book. Another was 'Back Channel,' by Stephen Carter, wonderful read. And 'I Am Pilgrim,' Terry Hayes, for yet another. Cobra and Pilgrim were full of action; Back Channel was more cerebral, but still a great book.

I could prob think of more if I tried.

The_Outlaw_Torn said:

The nephew is twenty when the relationship turns sexual, so obviously he'll be a consenting adult. But i can still see that readers will be put off by the incest. Maybe I can find a traditional publisher that caters to this specific subhect. God knows it will take a while.

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Good luck. Incest just isn't something the vast majority of people want to read about (IMHO).

The_Outlaw_Torn said:

The nephew is twenty when the relationship turns sexual, so obviously he'll be a consenting adult. But i can still see that readers will be put off by the incest. Maybe I can find a traditional publisher that caters to this specific subhect. God knows it will take a while.

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I think, as long as you write the incest with the fact that very few people will want to read it, you'll be okay. That'd mean a total lack of sex scenes, for me, and probably a drought of general "romantic" scenes.
I imagine that most people hear about Lolita and think "Nope!", but that hasn't stopped it from being where it is today.

I'm dealing with something very similar, and I've pretty much given up on actively avoiding making the reader uncomfortable. The difference is, though, that, as a crime drama, your story (presumably) doesn't hinge on that relationship. Even if it's something that's important for the characters, it can still be glazed over. My WIP can't beat around the bush.

I would also find such incest distasteful, but what do I or anyone else commenting on this thread know about public tastes and trends?

If I had been the literary agent confronted with the manuscript of Wetlands and Twilight, dealing with a teenage girls obsession with her private parts and another about falling in love with a vampire, I would have read a few pages, had a good laugh and thrown them in the rubbish pile. Harry Potter would already have been in the rubbish pile.

The lady authors of the three books became rich and famous, while I have written a few literary masterpieces that most people don't want to read and I can't even afford a decent car.

(They say money can't buy you happiness bit it can buy you a car that starts when you turn on the ignition).

LuckyH said:

I would also find such incest distasteful, but what do I or anyone else commenting on this thread know about public tastes and trends?

If I had been the literary agent confronted with the manuscript of Wetlands and Twilight, dealing with a teenage girls obsession with her private parts and another about falling in love with a vampire, I would have read a few pages, had a good laugh and thrown them in the rubbish pile. Harry Potter would already have been in the rubbish pile.

The lady authors of the three books became rich and famous, while I have written a few literary masterpieces that most people don't want to read and I can't even afford a decent car.

(They say money can't buy you happiness bit it can buy you a car that starts when you turn on the ignition).

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I don't think any poster thinks he/she knows any public trends but we are members of the public and we're giving OP feedback as to what we would read. Vampires aren't taboo. In fact, people always have loved vampires. Incest - not so much. It's distasteful - period (along with being illegal, etc.). So while I don't poll the public, I would never spend MY money on a book containing anything to do with incest.

Romangoblets said:

I don't think any poster thinks he/she knows any public trends but we are members of the public and we're giving OP feedback as to what we would read. Vampires aren't taboo. In fact, people always have loved vampires. Incest - not so much. It's distasteful - period (along with being illegal, etc.). So while I don't poll the public, I would never spend MY money on a book containing anything to do with incest.

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I agree, mostly, and have spent my money on Twilight, Harry Potter and even Wetlands, though I feel a bit foolish admitting the last mentioned. I remember being disgusted once when a quite famous author slipped an incestuous episode into one of his bestsellers I don't want to libel anyone but it was either King or Koontz.

But we need brave writers to go the extra mile, otherwise women still wouldn't have the vote and they would still be lynching people in Georgia.

LuckyH said:

I agree, mostly, and have spent my money on Twilight, Harry Potter and even Wetlands, though I feel a bit foolish admitting the last mentioned. I remember being disgusted once when a quite famous author slipped an incestuous episode into one of his bestsellers I don't want to libel anyone but it was either King or Koontz.

But we need brave writers to go the extra mile, otherwise women still wouldn't have the vote and they would still be lynching people in Georgia.

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Koontz had one in the bad place which turned me off of him for a while. Then I realized it was one book and not an author trend. I have read all his books and haven't seen that come up again. Personally, I wouldn't buy a book with incest in it. {Koontz was an exception because I didn't know it was there.)

LuckyH said:

I agree, mostly, and have spent my money on Twilight, Harry Potter and even Wetlands, though I feel a bit foolish admitting the last mentioned. I remember being disgusted once when a quite famous author slipped an incestuous episode into one of his bestsellers I don't want to libel anyone but it was either King or Koontz.

But we need brave writers to go the extra mile, otherwise women still wouldn't have the vote and they would still be lynching people in Georgia.

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Writing about injustice is very different than writing about incest. (IMHO) I don't see many people marching in favor of it. I'm wouldn't categorize anyone who writes about incest as being "brave." If it's the writer's objective to turn off as many potential readers as possible, then write a novel with incest as a focal point. I won't be buying it.

Writing a novel with incest as a focal point would not appeal to many readers. Similarly, denying racism and homophobia, totally, would put off many readers. So would extreme nationalism and religious extremism of the kind currently seen in northern Iraq, where they are hacking off innocent's heads and parading them around on sticks for the world's media.

Most authors wanting to make money from their writing stay away from anything controversial and write with their heads in the sand.

Doesn't the Mortal Instruments have a main brother/sister relationship? So does Forbidden, which is also popular. But then, they aren't an uncle/niece or nephew pairing, so that might change things. Who knows?

I guess the only contribution I can make is to ask whether you've carried on writing since you consigned your manuscript to the darkness of forgotten time. In my experience, the writing muscle is like any other...it may need some serious exercise to get back into shape. Having completed one book, you'll find your style and prose improve with the next so when you return to the first you'll see it with 'cold' objective eyes and a revision will kick it up a league. To merely pick it up and try to rework without at least starting a new project may not take it to the level required to satisfy strange eyes. But good luck - go for it. M